The Athletic QB Tiers (2 Panelists Voted Josh as Tier 2)

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

2 hours ago, MDH said:

Mahomes wasn’t unanimous. One guy had him at tier 2.

I just corrected my post.  Thank you.

54 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

No.  That's absolutely the point.  Allen has pretty much everything else.  What he hasn't shown yet is the discipline to do the right thing on every single play. Brady had it, to the max. He took sacks, he threw the ball away, he called timeouts. So long as it was pre-snap on the ball was in his hands, he did the right thing every play. 

 

 

If Brady "did the right thing every play", how did he end up with over 200 interceptions and 134 fumbles during his career?

[YattaOkasan]

Mahomes failed to make the playoffs.  We can find holes in everyones game.  Josh's are bad but wow are panelists taking for granted the ridiculous plays that he makes.   They dont make the DEN game without him.  28/35 taking the short stuff given to him while leading a GW drive on the road.  Also against DEN he still has the gumption to have multiple scoring drives in the 4th quarter to take the lead then extend the lead then tie the game.  I would like to know who those panelists think are tier 1 QBs. 

 

 

[Shaw66]

14 minutes ago, T.E. said:

It was a brutal turnover, but the Cook fumble was arguably worse if we're talking about the overall effect on the game.

 

90% of Allen playing recklessly is because he is forced to make everything happen on his own during passing plays, and he knows it. He gets zero help there. If Cooks just holds onto that ball, it's game over and Allen is the hero 

Yes, Bills would have won if Cooks had caught the ball. But Allen's fumble still would have been the worst play any Bill made that day. 

 

The bolded is what people don't understand.  Allen's job is NOT to be Superman. His job is to make the plays he can make, without turning the ball over. That's his job. Allen threw two interceptions and lost two fumbles. Allen would have had to throw for four TDs and run for two more to overcome mistakes like that.  

 

He looked like a rookie, and he lost the game.

[YattaOkasan]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Repeating for emphasis:

 

'A GM noted that the Bills have given Allen a strong defense and a strong run game, but not at the same time.

 

“Josh is a 1 because he is the reason they remain competitive,” this GM said. “He’s so physically talented. But I’m ready to say he’s never gonna win a Super Bowl because their team’s getting worse around him, and I think his style of football is going to start breaking him down physically.”'

OMG clip this please and put it on a board.  

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

“Josh Allen, with under 30 seconds left in the half, runs for a meaningless 12-yard gain and fumbles and gives up a field goal in a playoff game to go behind two scores against Denver,” this coach said. “Until he quits doing that, you can’t rank him as the top quarterback. That is one of the worst plays I’ve ever seen. Cost them the game.”

 

This is the truth. The greatest QBs make the right decision every time. Brady, Rodgers, Brees. Every time. They each had a killer instinct that helped them be really smart, every play. Josh still needs to get more focused like that. When he does that, he will be the best ever. 

Zero player make the right decision on every time.   Major exaggeration here Shaw.  

[VW82]

I’m caught between wanting to post that it’s wild people are still refusing to credit the guy who’s clearly the best QB in the league (and has been for two years now), but still agreeing with the criticisms: he makes bone-headed plays in big moments that other top QBs don’t make that lose important games and there’s risk of him breaking down any year now given his play style.

 

Either way, to not even list him among the top tier is just stupid.

[YattaOkasan]

Just now, Shaw66 said:

Yes, Bills would have won if Cooks had caught the ball. But Allen's fumble still would have been the worst play any Bill made that day. 

 

The bolded is what people don't understand.  Allen's job is NOT to be Superman. His job is to make the plays he can make, without turning the ball over. That's his job. Allen threw two interceptions and lost two fumbles. Allen would have had to throw for four TDs and run for two more to overcome mistakes like that.  

 

He looked like a rookie, and he lost the game.

If he played without turning the ball over we would lose worse.  we would score much less than we would gain.  youre putting the cooks interception on him.  just madness...  at least quote TO worth plays or something. 

[CA OC Bills Fan]

I think multiple things are true:

- That play at the end of the half was brutal, inexcusable, and should not have happened. I don't agree with those that say McD. should have just had him kneel down and go to halftime, but Josh HAS to be more aware of the situation and can't hold the ball the way he did running around. 

- Josh is the best QB in the NFL and to not have him as Tier 1 is a complete joke.

[T.E.]

30 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Zero player make the right decision on every time.   Major exaggeration here Shaw.  

In the second Pats-Giants Super Bowl, Tom Brady took a dumb safety on an intentional grounding that he didn't even need to do, and it led to a nine-point swing in a game they lost by four. I don't remember anyone saying he blew the game on that one play.

[blacklabel]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

“Josh Allen, with under 30 seconds left in the half, runs for a meaningless 12-yard gain and fumbles and gives up a field goal in a playoff game to go behind two scores against Denver,” this coach said. “Until he quits doing that, you can’t rank him as the top quarterback. That is one of the worst plays I’ve ever seen. Cost them the game.”

 

This is the truth. The greatest QBs make the right decision every time. Brady, Rodgers, Brees. Every time. They each had a killer instinct that helped them be really smart, every play. Josh still needs to get more focused like that. When he does that, he will be the best ever. 

 

C'mon man. All three dudes you mentioned have made the wrong play at the wrong time, many times. They aren't infallible. 

[colin]

6 minutes ago, T.E. said:

In the second Pats-Giants Super Bowl, Tom Brady took a dumb safety on an intentional grounding that he didn't even need to do, and it led to a nine-point swing in a game they lost by four. I don't remember anyone saying he blew the game on that one play.

 

he was coached well and got high grades for that safety tho.

 

 

[BuffaloBill]

On 8/4/2026 at 11:57 AM, Shaw66 said:

“Josh Allen, with under 30 seconds left in the half, runs for a meaningless 12-yard gain and fumbles and gives up a field goal in a playoff game to go behind two scores against Denver,” this coach said. “Until he quits doing that, you can’t rank him as the top quarterback. That is one of the worst plays I’ve ever seen. Cost them the game.”

 

This is the truth. The greatest QBs make the right decision every time. Brady, Rodgers, Brees. Every time. They each had a killer instinct that helped them be really smart, every play. Josh still needs to get more focused like that. When he does that, he will be the best ever. 

 

That play was terrible and ill advised. Not defending JA because he should have just quit on the play and gone to the locker room. However, we will never know how a poor defense and the need to score many points drove JA to that stupidity. It is a chicken and egg issue.

[eball]

Any coach or GM who makes negative comments about Josh or Mahomes is simply reeking of envy and jealousy. 
 

It’s that simple. 
 

[YattaOkasan]

29 minutes ago, colin said:

 

he was coached well and got high grades for that safety tho.

 

 

and a comp pick

[Shaw66]

28 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

That play was terrible and ill advised. Not defending JA because he should have just quit on the play and gone to the locker room. However, we will never know how a poor defense and the need to score many points drive JA to that stupidity. It is a chicken and egg issue.

I would bet you $1000 that if you asked Joe Brady or Josh Allen before that possession was okay if, because the Bills defense wasn't that good, Josh should risk a turnover on that possession, both of them would have said absolutely not.  

 

That is exactly my point. If Josh actually thinks it's okay to take risks in that position, then he has failed to learn one of the most important points that every coach tries to teach every quarterback.  

 

It is not Josh's job to decide when to take risks like that. His job is to avoid turnovers generally, and especially to avoid turnovers at the end of each half. He failed - miserably - at his job on that play, and I just can't help people who can't see or don't want to see that Josh may a stupid, game-changing decision on that play. 

 

And if you ask Josh, he'll tell you it was a stupid, game-changing decision. 

[CSBill]

The fans think otherwise:

Mahomes is 81% in the top tier

Stafford is 80% in the top tier

Burrows is down to 59%, and Lamar is below 50%.

[YattaOkasan]

37 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I would bet you $1000 that if you asked Joe Brady or Josh Allen before that possession was okay if, because the Bills defense wasn't that good, Josh should risk a turnover on that possession, both of them would have said absolutely not.  

 

That is exactly my point. If Josh actually thinks it's okay to take risks in that position, then he has failed to learn one of the most important points that every coach tries to teach every quarterback.  

 

It is not Josh's job to decide when to take risks like that. His job is to avoid turnovers generally, and especially to avoid turnovers at the end of each half. He failed - miserably - at his job on that play, and I just can't help people who can't see or don't want to see that Josh may a stupid, game-changing decision on that play. 

 

And if you ask Josh, he'll tell you it was a stupid, game-changing decision. 

Can't disagree more that its not Josh's job to decide when to take risks. Josh has on multiple occasions talked about how his risk taking is situational, so he very much views it as his responsibility.  he has said that he goes out to make plays and sometimes puts him in a bad spot (directly after the DEN loss for that quote); hes aware of the downsides.  Dont know why you think he (or any QB) shouldnt be trusted with making risked based decisions.  Thats why QB is higher paid than the coach.  I understand turnovers are the metric most correlated with winning, but many times they are out of his control.  Bruce Arians is considered a QB Whisperer and hes most famous for his no risk it no biscuit line.  
Additionally, what decision are you specifically referring to that was stupid and game-changing?  Not tucking the ball while being tackled (sure the real sin here), trying to break tackles (he does that routinely so im good), trying to make a big play late in a half (again he does it routinely).  so much of your discussion feels very results oriented and not about the considerations that led to the "decision." 

[machine gun kelly]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Brady was coached to play with the philosophy that many Bills fans hated when Jauron was the head coach: A punt is a good play. Brady was always happy to throw the ball away and punt rather than chance a turnover. He didn't make risky plays with the ball until time was running out and his team absolutely needed a score. 

 

I have no doubt that he got high grades from his coaches going 2 for 11 on third down. The important stats in his first Super Bowl was zero INTs and zero fumbles. 

Thanks. I've really been puzzled about why that happened. In his MVP year, he clearly seemed to have learned the ball security lesson, and then last season it slipped away. In Denver, he played like a rookie some of the time. 

I think it’s because he has so much accountability, he thinks he can overcome everything.  Beane gave him crap WR talent.  He tries like crazy to overcome it.

 

Moore was a good start, but NE gave Mae not just Brown, but also Doubs.  Why didn’t we do the same?  Or why didn’t we draft McConkey vs. Coleman?  These are catastrophic mistakes.  I’m soooo hoping a healthy Kinkaid, Moore, and Shakir can get it done with Cook.  I just again think we fell short again!

 

 

[BillsFan130]

3 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

At the end of the day the Bills lost by 3 points, that fumble lead to the Broncos getting 3 points...Math 101. 

Here is also some math 101: The Bills were winning 27-23 with 4 minutes left to go. If the Bills defence stops denver, by rule, Denver gets 0 points on the final drive and they are held to 23 points and the Bills win.

It was a bad play that cost them 3 points. There were more costly plays than that. Putting Dane jackson on a 1 on 1 situation (7 point mistake there), putting Savage on a high leverage spot (cost them at least 4 points), and James cook fumbling. (Cost them 3-7 points)

 

At the end of the day, The offence came back and had a 4 point lead with 4 minutes to go. To say a fumble in a first half that cost them 3 points was the deciding factor in the game because they lost by 3, is such a narrow way of looking at what actually happened

[Sojourner]

With what’s in the league I don’t see how a healthy Mahomes or Josh are not unanimous Tier 1 quarterbacks. 
 

Baffling. 

2 hours ago, eball said:

Any coach or GM who makes negative comments about Josh or Mahomes is simply reeking of envy and jealousy. 
 

It’s that simple. 
 

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