Training Camp — Day 4 (8/3)

[Shaw66]

32 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Dont buy the Cook stuff. Brady was OC and I dont think McD was forcing him to use Cook a certain way. We have seen Cook in the passing game a lot at times and then they get away from it for stretches. Think that is a Brady match up thing. 

I'm not so sure you're correct about this. What's changed is that Carmichael, not Brady, is installing the offense. Carmichael was the coordinator of the offense that gave us years of Alvin Kamara catching the ball. Kamara had over 80 receptions in each of his first four seasons in New Orleans, and averaged 60 in his next three seasons, all under Carmichael. Cook's best season in Buffalo has been 44 receptions. 

 

We won't know until we see how the season unfolds, but it doesn't make sense to me to conclude now that Cook won't be catching more passes. 

24 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I mean I don't expect him to get an Alvin Kamara-esque target share, but bringing Pete Carmichael into the room isn't a coincidence. I'd expect his targets to go up and hopefully as more than just a checkdown option. Get him the ball in space and he can make people miss.

Whoops, didn't see this before I posted mine. 

 

Either Carmichael is a natural at getting the ball to the running back, or he learned a lot about how to do it from Payton. Either way, I would guess we're going to see more creative ways to get the ball to Cook in space. 

[Mango]

11 minutes ago, Lost said:

 

 

Don't love this take

 

       "This offense just doesn’t feature the WR position like some expect with a QB of this level. DJ Moore and JA look locked in during red zone though"

 

 

Sounds like we're gonna be running the exact same offense as last year.  

 

 

Didn't Allen say in mini-camp that there are some new wrinkles, but it's largely the same or very similar offense.

 

Also when you move your OC to HC that's supposed to be part of the value add, that your QB1 never really loses their OC or has to learn a new system.

 

I think. Well maybe be different here and there, but I'd be shocked if we revamped the entire offense and it's concepts with Brady at the helm.

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

4 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Hamlin is getting reps with the 1st stringers !

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I'm not so sure you're correct about this. What's changed is that Carmichael, not Brady, is installing the offense. Carmichael was the coordinator of the offense that gave us years of Alvin Kamara catching the ball. Kamara had over 80 receptions in each of his first four seasons in New Orleans, and averaged 60 in his next three seasons, all under Carmichael. Cook's best season in Buffalo has been 44 receptions. 

 

And to be fair to Brady, it is hard to funnel targets to your RB when the defense is cheating to the short areas of the field because they have no respect for your downfield passing game. All eyes were on Cook which limited his favorable passing opportunities. I really think that Moore is going to be instrumental in that respect. Defenses will once again be threatened by Allen's ability to throw strikes downfield so they won't be able to cheat as much. This means Cook gets more space to operate from. So might as well build the offense to take advantage of those opportunities.

[HappyDays]

Also Joe Marino is at camp this week and is releasing a daily episode on his observations:

 

 

[GunnerBill]

28 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

And to be fair to Brady, it is hard to funnel targets to your RB when the defense is cheating to the short areas of the field because they have no respect for your downfield passing game. All eyes were on Cook which limited his favorable passing opportunities. I really think that Moore is going to be instrumental in that respect. Defenses will once again be threatened by Allen's ability to throw strikes downfield so they won't be able to cheat as much. This means Cook gets more space to operate from. So might as well build the offense to take advantage of those opportunities.

 

And because teams often spy Josh or commit an extra man to the box to play his legs. The Bills have to work doubly hard to get those guys to back up again.

[SoonerBillsFan]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I'm not so sure you're correct about this. What's changed is that Carmichael, not Brady, is installing the offense. Carmichael was the coordinator of the offense that gave us years of Alvin Kamara catching the ball. Kamara had over 80 receptions in each of his first four seasons in New Orleans, and averaged 60 in his next three seasons, all under Carmichael. Cook's best season in Buffalo has been 44 receptions. 

 

We won't know until we see how the season unfolds, but it doesn't make sense to me to conclude now that Cook won't be catching more passes. 

Whoops, didn't see this before I posted mine. 

 

Either Carmichael is a natural at getting the ball to the running back, or he learned a lot about how to do it from Payton. Either way, I would guess we're going to see more creative ways to get the ball to Cook in space. 

I would also like to add over Carmichaels time in NO the order of overall receptions went WR1, RB, TE. Carmichael has already talked about Kamara comparisons with Cook

[Shaw66]

24 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

I would also like to add over Carmichaels time in NO the order of overall receptions went WR1, RB, TE. Carmichael has already talked about Kamara comparisons with Cook

Moore Kincaid Cook. Not bad. And Shakir in the slot.  

 

Palmer and Coleman are the fifth option. 

[Rubes]

46 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And because teams often spy Josh or commit an extra man to the box to play his legs. The Bills have to work doubly hard to get those guys to back up again.

 

Ah, but when they do.....*chef's kiss*

 

[vincec]

6 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I hope they manage Cook’s touches. They need him fresh in the post season.

[Whites Bay]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

I really think that Moore is going to be instrumental in that respect. Defenses will once again be threatened by Allen's ability to throw strikes downfield so they won't be able to cheat as much. This means Cook gets more space to operate from.

The Bills have some of the best "underneath" offensive players in the league.  Cook?  Yep.  And Kincaid, and Shakir, and Knox, and (let's hope) Coleman...and Allen scrambling  Guess what?  Every opposing team on the schedule knows that.  And every opposing team is going to cheat up to stop that crap, and they're usually successful when the big game is on the line.  As a clueless fan, I'm hopeful that Moore makes them pay for that.

[PoundingDog]

31 minutes ago, Whites Bay said:

The Bills have some of the best "underneath" offensive players in the league.  Cook?  Yep.  And Kincaid, and Shakir, and Knox, and (let's hope) Coleman...and Allen scrambling  Guess what?  Every opposing team on the schedule knows that.  And every opposing team is going to cheat up to stop that crap, and they're usually successful when the big game is on the line.  As a clueless fan, I'm hopeful that Moore makes them pay for that.

I think Kincaid is more of downfield threat. His average depth of target in 2025 is about 9.4 yards. Think about it - Ja'Marr Chase is at 8.5 yards, Puka is at 9.3. That's why everyone, including Beane, Josh, Brady said when Kincaid is on the field, the Bills offensive is at a different level.  

[SoonerBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Moore Kincaid Cook. Not bad. And Shakir in the slot.  

 

Palmer and Coleman are the fifth option. 

Agreed good sir.  This could be one heck of a season.

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 hour ago, Whites Bay said:

The Bills have some of the best "underneath" offensive players in the league.  Cook?  Yep.  And Kincaid, and Shakir, and Knox, and (let's hope) Coleman...and Allen scrambling  Guess what?  Every opposing team on the schedule knows that.  And every opposing team is going to cheat up to stop that crap, and they're usually successful when the big game is on the line.  As a clueless fan, I'm hopeful that Moore makes them pay for that.

Considering our QB might have the best rocket arm in the NFL, not sure , in certain situations, especially with speed like DJ and rookie K Bell.

[SCBills]

5 hours ago, Mango said:

 

Didn't Allen say in mini-camp that there are some new wrinkles, but it's largely the same or very similar offense.

 

Also when you move your OC to HC that's supposed to be part of the value add, that your QB1 never really loses their OC or has to learn a new system.

 

I think. Well maybe be different here and there, but I'd be shocked if we revamped the entire offense and it's concepts with Brady at the helm.

I don’t think it will be revamped but id

hope we see 3 things…

 

- A heavier pass to run ratio 

 

- Shakir running more WR routes, instead of just being a glorified RB

 

- More pass game to the RB’s.  We have James Cook, who was a receiving back at UGA.  Ty Johnson, who is known for his receiving ability.  And Ray Davis, who was arguably the best receiving back in his draft class. 

[billsfan89]

One thing I like hearing about Joe Brady is him taking the pads off for team practice because he noticed last camp that players were adjusting pads and not comfortable in them day one. So he gave the pads for only individual drills day one and took them off for team just so that players can come back the next day with their pads adjusted and ready to go for team.

 

It’s not a major thing but those little things add up.

[billsfan89]

2 hours ago, Whites Bay said:

The Bills have some of the best "underneath" offensive players in the league.  Cook?  Yep.  And Kincaid, and Shakir, and Knox, and (let's hope) Coleman...and Allen scrambling  Guess what?  Every opposing team on the schedule knows that.  And every opposing team is going to cheat up to stop that crap, and they're usually successful when the big game is on the line.  As a clueless fan, I'm hopeful that Moore makes them pay for that.

This is very accurate, the book on the Bills offense from 2024-2025 was basically make them beat you 1 v 1 on the outside. The Bills have a team that in recent years has built an offense tremendously able to beat down a cover 2 shell that’s frustrated the league at times.

 

So defenses basically sold out to stop the run by brining up a safety into the box (which also allowed them to bring more traffic into the short and mid range passing game) and daring the Bills to beat them 1 to 1 on an island outside. 

It’s why when the team traded for Amari Cooper and the offense took off because teams for many weeks feared Cooper one v one on the outside. Of course the tape on Cooper got out and they were less respectful but my hope is that Moore brings that level of hey don’t leave this guy out there because he will beat you a few times 

 

[pi2000]

55 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

One thing I like hearing about Joe Brady is him taking the pads off for team practice because he noticed last camp that players were adjusting pads and not comfortable in them day one. So he gave the pads for only individual drills day one and took them off for team just so that players can come back the next day with their pads adjusted and ready to go for team.

 

It’s not a major thing but those little things add up.

 

The more I think about everything, how camp is being run...  the more it feels like this year is a disaster in the making.

 

Penalties, special teams gaffes, turnovers, poor clock management, undisciplined play.... feels like Kay Stephenson all over again.

 

Hope I'm wrong.

[Beck Water]

15 hours ago, SCBills said:

Every practice report so far…

 

“WR’s look healthy and improved, DB’s making plays, Allen developing a connection with Moore and KYLE ALLEN LOOKS SO BAD.”

 

 

 

Yeah, I don't really understand why Kyle Allen was "Plan A" as a backup QB but I think they need a new Plan.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

 

That's our QB!!! What a brave young woman!!!