CJGJ = Problem Child?

[GunnerBill]

20 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

Let me try to middle it.  For this group,  it’s much more important  now than it would have been in 2020.  This group might need a little juice, or someone who is going to get them “up” at crunch time.  I do feel the group may now, after too many playoff scars, be more worried about losing in difficult spots than focused on winning.  

 

I honestly don't think that stuff in the bolded matters or is the reason. It's faux psychology. Do I think this group is worried about losing and gets tight in crunch time? Yep. I don't think a player with so called edge or arrogance makes any difference to that.

[GoBills808]

😂😂'the culture'

 

this is a fanbase starving for a super bowl and the culture was what they fed us for the last 9years

 

***** the culture

[C.Biscuit97]

My man is 28 and has been a dad since 13! At some point, you gotta take the blame why no team wants you more than a year despite being a good player. He seems super annoying and a lot but maybe he finally grew up. Either way, it’s a year and we get rid of him if he’s an issue. 
 

but man, people hate him. 

[Buffalo03]

Dan Fetes said on Buffalo plus that through 2 practices that he is the guy that he has been watching the most and has impressed him the most. He said he jaws a lot and is constantly jumping around and on the sideline when not on the field but is also making a ton of plays 

[SectionC3]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I honestly don't think that stuff in the bolded matters or is the reason. It's faux psychology. Do I think this group is worried about losing and gets tight in crunch time? Yep. I don't think a player with so called edge or arrogance makes any difference to that.

I disagree.  I lead in other areas of life.  Sometime you need someone to stand up and say “f this,” we’re gonna solve this problem or win this lawsuit or shut this down or whatever.  That person has to be able to deliver.  But it’s inspiring when you have people who are scared or uncertain or whatever to have that brashness and confidence.  

[GaryPinC]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I honestly don't think that stuff in the bolded matters or is the reason. It's faux psychology. Do I think this group is worried about losing and gets tight in crunch time? Yep. I don't think a player with so called edge or arrogance makes any difference to that.

You know you are really intelligent when it comes to evaluating and understanding sports but it's amazing how willfully ignorant and stubborn you are to the role of emotions in sports.

[colin]

27 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

[Insert Clown Emoji] 

 

 

Defensive Back Athletic Scores

Jordan Poyer: 5.32 (2013 draft, 7th round, Oregon State)

Micah Hyde: 4.73 (2013 draft, 5th round, Iowa)

Tre'Davious White: 6.47 (2017 draft, 1st round, LSU)

Levi Brown: 4.36 (2007 draft, 1st round, Penn State offensive tackle)

Taylor Rapp: N/A official combine total (2019 draft, Washington; typical pro day metrics estimated mid-tier)

Cole Bishop: 9.88 (2024 draft, 2nd round, Utah)

C.J. Gardner-Johnson: 7.86 (2019 draft, 4th round, Florida)

Jalon Kilgore: N/A (Special teams/safety depth piece)

Christian Benford: 8.14 (2022 draft, 6th round, Villanova)

Maxwell Hairston: 9.63 (2025 draft, 1st round, Kentucky)

 

IGB is an 8.64, with a lot of size.

 

i don't understand your response, it's like the opposite of the data.

 

we've gone from having only tre as the single near decent athlete in the secondary to maybe benford being the least athletic for his position, and benford is a solid athlete and a great corner.  we'd throw in dane jackson and that other slug as our dime backer sometimes too, now we have sick athletes all over, including straight freaks like bishop and hariston.

 

we have a variety of guys too, who can play a variety of techniques, and we have corners and safeties (and slot guys too) who match up better vs speed or size.  instead of just having smart slow old injured guys not being out of position most of the time, we have guys who can actually match up and potentially change games.

 

 

you may not like the plan or the coach or whatever, but there is simply no question we've upgraded the athletic talent on d in a great way.

 

[SectionC3]

Just now, GaryPinC said:

You know you are really intelligent when it comes to evaluating and understanding sports but it's amazing how willfully ignorant and stubborn you are to the role of emotions in sports.

You learn a lot about people through eyes.  You can communicate and lead by locking eyes.  And sometimes in life you gotta have the guy who “knocks,” in whatever field it is.  The guy who looks you in the eye and says I got your back and delivers.   That’s leadership.  You either have it or you don’t.  

Just now, SectionC3 said:

You learn a lot about people through eyes.  You can communicate and lead by locking eyes.  And sometimes in life you gotta have the guy who “knocks,” in whatever field it is.  The guy who looks you in the eye and says I got your back and delivers.   That’s leadership.  You either have it or you don’t.  

I’ll add to it. I bet Brady sees it too.  They

Gotta play us is his thing.  I completely agree with that mentality,  as should anyone who has ever been in the arena.  I don’t worry about my opponent.  I out work them, out prepare them, and dare them to beat me.  They gotta beat me, not the other way around.  And I can tell you from lots of personal experience that the preparation builds trust and the swagger instills confidence.  That is how you lead.  

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, SectionC3 said:

You learn a lot about people through eyes.  You can communicate and lead by locking eyes.  And sometimes in life you gotta have the guy who “knocks,” in whatever field it is.  The guy who looks you in the eye and says I got your back and delivers.   That’s leadership.  You either have it or you don’t.  

You make a good point but on a football team, leadership takes a lot of different forms. Milano barely speaks but was a leader. There are also the fake rah rah tough guys who just talk to talk. 
 

CJ is clearly a good player. But a guy who bounces around as much as he does happens for good reasons. And it is good team getting rid of him. It’s a year and maybe he will be on his best behavior. But clearly, he has negative effects on some of his past teams. 

[SectionC3]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

You make a good point but on a football team, leadership takes a lot of different forms. Milano barely speaks but was a leader. There are also the fake rah rah tough guys who just talk to talk. 
 

CJ is clearly a good player. But a guy who bounces around as much as he does happens for good reasons. And it is good team getting rid of him. It’s a year and maybe he will be on his best behavior. But clearly, he has negative effects on some of his past teams. 

It can.   One can lead by example, for sure.  But we’ve had that, and it we didn’t get it done.  Time for option #2, which is the guy who demands that everyone follow him and who can back it up.  

[GaryPinC]

1 minute ago, SectionC3 said:

You learn a lot about people through eyes.  You can communicate and lead by locking eyes.  And sometimes in life you gotta have the guy who “knocks,” in whatever field it is.  The guy who looks you in the eye and says I got your back and delivers.   That’s leadership.  You either have it or you don’t.  

Yeah, you're right, it's not just sports.  But there's always emotions at play, maybe mostly below the surface, but they play a catalyzing role.

[RobbRiddick]

1 hour ago, Got 2 Billieve said:

As many of you have, I have been tuned into the offseason/Training Camp and I have to be honest, I am seeing something brewing that makes me feel uneasy.  It's CJ Gardner-Johnson.  When they first signed him, I was like ok, they got a dawg style guy with some talent.  Hey we need some dawgs and this could help our defense.  However, after seeing the constant sh***t talking and now this whole streaming "thing" with Brady and then going live after to talk about it.  It's clear to me this guy just doesn't get it.  Almost like some Antonio Brown vibes.  He has had issues with his former teams.  Quite a few teams I might add. 

 

There was a certain culture developed here over the past 8-9 years. You heard Jim Leonhard reference it in his presser regarding the level of professionalism that is displayed by the players.  I fully understand if it gets out of control they can just cut him, but I hope this guy doesn't kill the vibes and make training camp unenjoyable for everyone. This can have a ripple effect throughout the team.  He appears to be the exact type of player (attitude and maturity) we have tried to avoid over the last 9 years.  

I agree he is a d*ckhead off the field, but didn't the Rams win the SB the year they overpaid for Ramsey? Having a loudmouth doesn't automatically equal a team implosion. The same way having a team of choirboys doesn't equal success

[HaldimandBills]

47 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

[Insert Clown Emoji] 

 

Insert reading comprehension is tough. Never said they were worse. They were definitely brilliant between the ears. Much like Tre. 

 

Doesn't change the fact all three were limited athletes compared to our current secondary. Reason why these guys excelled in a zone defense and we barely played any man keeping it a vanilla defense relying on post snap secondary confusion. 

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

It can.   One can lead by example, for sure.  But we’ve had that, and it we didn’t get it done.  Time for option #2, which is the guy who demands that everyone follow him and who can back it up.  

I personally don’t think lack of emotion really costs us any playoff games. They just choked in a couple of them and killed themselves with turnovers last game. 
 

there are guys who can poison locker rooms though and it sounds like teams think that about CJ. I would hope if he has any brain cells, he realizes this is probably his last shot to stay in the league. 

[RobbRiddick]

Can't wait for this thread to get bumped during the season when he gets an INT

[SectionC3]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I personally don’t think lack of emotion really costs us any playoff games. They just choked in a couple of them and killed themselves with turnovers last game. 
 

there are guys who can poison locker rooms though and it sounds like teams think that about CJ. I would hope if he has any brain cells, he realizes this is probably his last shot to stay in the league. 

They got tight in losses at KC. I do think we were jobbed in Denver. 

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, RobbRiddick said:

Can't wait for this thread to get bumped during the season when he gets an INT

Why haha? I don’t think one person is questioning him as a player. His overwhelming pattern is the longer he is with a team, they get sick of him. 

[NoSaint]

41 minutes ago, colin said:

we've been soft on d in the playoffs for way too long.  the plucky less athletic less nasty guys we've had on D haven't gotten it done, and the coach who loved those guys is gone, along w a lot of his boys (phillips, milano, taron, tre, poy, rapp, maybe bosa?, bernard might get the bench, it's crazy how many snaps we gave on d to guys that seem to only fit the mcd system, and under mcd seemed the only guys who could fit his system).

 

we are going multiple on D, with a new more aggressive coordinator who aims to be less predictable than the old hat guy who left.  we have upped the level of athlete at every level on D, and gotten younger and faster.

 

Chauncy is a great representation of how the attitude has changed.  he's a problem child with a heap of talent, he's not old, slow, injured, or familiar.  he's also not a good but not great familiar player on a long and expensive contract.  he has a winner's mentality and he's a jerk.  

 

we exited the playoffs last season with our D once again being horrible (save your electrons about the turnovers on O, the EPA don't lie) in the playoffs.  the leaders of our team were crying on camera and the coach showed an awkward and rare display of emotion before getting the boot.  it was a very familiar end to the season like the several seasons before.  getting a guy in who will fight and make plays and make fun of guys for tearing up on camera might just be what we need.

 

exactly.

 

it's not like he's a jerk who is just selfishly freelancing to get picks or splash plays (like that 2nd overall pick at LB who played for the Gregggg williams DC'd redskins a couple decades back), he's a psycho who wants to win and understands fundamental football and getting people in position and holding guys responsible.  he's the right kind of jerk, IMO

until he’s the wrong kind. 
 

and ultimately as a human that’s part of him. 
 

but today, and hopefully for 6 months- he’s a reasonable risk/reward equation 

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, SectionC3 said:

They got tight in losses at KC. I do think we were jobbed in Denver. 

If they don’t turn the ball over 5 times, we don’t have to worry about the ref. It was 100% on the Bills. 

[machine gun kelly]

2 hours ago, Got 2 Billieve said:

As many of you have, I have been tuned into the offseason/Training Camp and I have to be honest, I am seeing something brewing that makes me feel uneasy.  It's CJ Gardner-Johnson.  When they first signed him, I was like ok, they got a dawg style guy with some talent.  Hey we need some dawgs and this could help our defense.  However, after seeing the constant sh***t talking and now this whole streaming "thing" with Brady and then going live after to talk about it.  It's clear to me this guy just doesn't get it.  Almost like some Antonio Brown vibes.  He has had issues with his former teams.  Quite a few teams I might add. 

 

There was a certain culture developed here over the past 8-9 years. You heard Jim Leonhard reference it in his presser regarding the level of professionalism that is displayed by the players.  I fully understand if it gets out of control they can just cut him, but I hope this guy doesn't kill the vibes and make training camp unenjoyable for everyone. This can have a ripple effect throughout the team.  He appears to be the exact type of player (attitude and maturity) we have tried to avoid over the last 9 years.  

Not accusing you of anything as you have your right to your opinion.  I truly hope you’re a real Bills fan.  Leonard, Beane, and Brady knew what they hired.  He’s also been in only one team at 9-8.  His other years are all playoff and SB teams.  Brady had no problem telling him to turn off the pod cast in the locker room.  What did he do?  Started a dorm podcast.  Means he’ll listen to his coach.

 

Im old school and not crazy about all of these self promotion podcasts, but I’ve accepted it.  If he keeps his trash talking to the opposition, and plays nice with teammates, then I can live with a mouth.