Other Bills recognized by execs, coaches and scouts

[BigAl2526]

12 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Assume you mean "other" than JA17.

 

It's a pretty sad list for a GM's resume, TBH.  Not nearly enough hits outside of the QB position.  Does anyone dispute this?

There is also some merit to the thought that some Bills (like Christian Benford) have been overlooked when handing out recognition.

[MikePJ76]

12 hours ago, MJS said:

 Benford is legitimately a top 10 corner in the league. Oliver is not a top 10 defensive tackle, though. He had one season where he played like that, and the rest have been lots of injuries or just above average.

Hey we agree to disagree.  Oliver can wreck a game and is one of the best three technique Defensive Tackles in the league.  His injuries have been a real problem.

[colin]

there are a few confounding things about player reputations/rankings/actual ability and results on the field.  

 

1:  Relative rankings are subjective, and don't show distance

If you have (like at the safety position) a guy like hamilton who is ranked 1, and bishop who is ranked like 28.  it's possible hamilton is 4th and bishop is 13th, or some such, there is a lot of guessing because things change year to year and even game to game.  Also, the actual impact of how much better one player is than another of a lower rank isn't well defined.  So your 1st ranked safety might be barely better than the 8th ranked safety, but the 13th ranked safety might be a lot better than say the 16th ranked.  or the other way around.  This is why the same guys who don't say the bills have a top 10 OL say the bills have the 6th best OL in the nfl.

 

2:  the whole does not equal the sum of the parts

The OL example above shows this, but it's also true of like entire offenses, defenses, etc etc.  there is also the interplay between the 3 phases.  our team, for example, was strong statistically on both sides of the ball (not special teams, total ass) for the regular season.  but we had an obvious disconnect where we would go heavy to run on O, and not stop the run on D.  some of that due to injuries, mistakes, whatever, but it shows how the interplay between players and strategies have a real impact on games well outside of (even an accurate) ranking of relative (or absolute) player talent.

 

3:  Position, scheme, snap values

So baltimore had (i think they lost more than people are mentioning) some super stand out guys, RB, FB, TE, C, S, DT, MLB, Lamar OBV.  people ranked those first 7 position group players as tippy top for years.  they looked the part, they ran for a lot of yards, the bullied teams physically, their run d was always sick.  but their pass rush wasn't great, we saw keon look like jerry rice in week one vs them because they had one soft spot at corner.  there is a reason those positions (not qb, duh) above are paid less and drafted lower than others.

then you have scheme.  people have actually talked about settle and poona ford as being key pieces on good defenses making impact plays.  both of them couldn't do jack for us.  i blame mcd because i'm a hater, but poy and hyde looked OK before coming here, where they were all pros.  braun the philly lb is similar.  

as far as snaps, you have some schemes that play certain players more than others.  a team will average between 2500-2600 snaps a year.  just over 1k on each of o and d, and like 250-300ish on special teams.  OL is mad valuable because they play basically all the O snaps but don't have a huge impact on any given snap compared to a skill position guy.  QB is all O snaps and big impact, RB is usually a good number of snaps, but less impact compared to a WR, etc.  some volume production guys (diggs late in his career, pittman who just went to pittz) are just steady (shakir turned into this sadly as he was getting targets like 2 yards from the LOS).  it's great the produce a lot for one roster spot, but they don't necessarily impact the game as much as their production indicates.

 

 

no one on the planet was touting seattle as a high end talent gold mine going into this season.  everyone said baltimore and philly and the rams were loaded.  some even said pittz was loaded on D, solid WRs, and would rank rogers ahead of say sam darnold as a stop gap qb.  well, baltimore missed the playoffs, pittz got dog walked in the playoffs, philly was one and done in the playoffs, rams went deep, and seattle won the whole thing.  dallas has consistently had absolute top rated guys at various positions, they've won what, 1 or 2 playoff games in 10 years?  

 

you really have to evaluate talent a bit more deeply than saying this many all pros (it's useful, but there is a lot of context).  Handicappers have turned this into a science, they have point value per player (i think a good poster pointed this out in this thread, or another one).  lamar is worth 2-4 points based on the last time i looked, allen is 6-7.  i remember handicapping games many moons ago, and a simple technique is to look at one roster vs another, and determine how many players on one team would start on the other team.  that can give you a sense of who has the better overall roster, but then details start to matter.  baltimore always had lots of players who would start on our team, and their QB was close, but our QB in big games is so much better than theirs that we beat them pretty regularly.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

23 hours ago, SCBills said:

While I think Brown and Benford are way too under the radar, Beane better hope McDermott was holding this roster back, because when your peers view your team as a poverty squad around Allen.. that’s not just fans chirping. 
 

The Defense has a ton of young players and guys coming off injury plagued years, so this year could be a glow up or more of the same. 
 

The Offense.. Moore & Kincaid have to work, otherwise it’s realistic to say that Brandon Beane may have squandered the most physically gifted QB to ever play the game.  
 

Not gonna lie.. it’s kind of jarring to see how weak this team is outside JA is viewed by other execs and scouts.  
 

I get that we have a very complete roster with a ton of guys probably in that next tier, but still … to see it on paper like this… concerning. 
 

This team has a lot to prove… and I’m hopeful in the stockpiling of young talent on Defense and addition of Moore to an Offense with JA/Cook and a Top 5 OL, but as we get closer, the thought creeps in.. do we have enough?

 

The Athletic did a full scale survey middle of last season on the 12 teams in considered contenders of players, coaches and personnel guys from arond the league and the consensus was "not that talented aside from #17 but really well coached week to week". 

 

Now I do think its fair to say the problem was when the lights were brightest in the post season the coaching wasn't up to its regular season standard. But Pegula and Beane have gone all in basically on the roster is better than their peers think.

[MJS]

38 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

Hey we agree to disagree.  Oliver can wreck a game and is one of the best three technique Defensive Tackles in the league.  His injuries have been a real problem.

He can wreck a game and has done that a few times, but there are a lot of guys in the league who regularly do that. Cam Heyward, Quinnen Williams, Jeffrey Simmons, Kobie Turner, Leonard Williams, Dexter Lawrence (although he had a down year, I think), Maliek Collins, and Byron Murphy are all consistently better than Oliver. Oliver doesn't have a case to be better than any of those players. Maybe because of injuries, but maybe just because they are better players.

 

Oliver is a good player and he has flashes of brilliance, but I just don't see a case for him being top 10 right now, and certainly nowhere near top 3 like you are saying. But hey! If you believe in him like that, awesome. I hope he performs like that this year.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/49231555/2026-nfl-roster-ranking-starting-lineups-projection-32-teams

 

Interesting the Bills starting lineup is ranked 4th by ESPN analytics crew.

 

I think we've got an offensive line that is at the very least top 10, likely top 5. Our TE room is very strong. James Cook won the rushing title, yet he's the only one recognized and is ranked 7th. Our secondary looks to be really good. the front 7 on D remains an unknown, but has alot of potential. Something is off IMO. It took years for JA17 to get his proper recognition, we've probably crossed over the line to denigrating his teammates because he's so good.

Edited July 17 by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower

[Kirby Jackson]

23 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/49231555/2026-nfl-roster-ranking-starting-lineups-projection-32-teams

 

Interesting the Bills starting lineup is ranked 4th by ESPN analytics crew.

 

I think we've got an offensive line that is at the very least top 10, likely top 5. Our TE room is very strong. James Cook won the rushing title, yet he's the only one recognized and is ranked 7th. Our secondary looks to be really good. the front 7 on D remains an unknown, but has alot of potential. Something is off IMO.

It’s individual talent vs. the compilation. The Bills have the best player in the game AND he plays the most important position. That’s 1 vote when you look at it individually, but the impact is significantly greater than Fred Warner (for example) who is ranked 1 at his position as well. When you look at the quality of a roster, a team with Josh Allen gets significantly more weight than the roster with Fred Warner.

 

The OL has 2 OTs that received votes and the center. Individually that’s 3 guys that are all in the top 1/2 of the league at their respective positions. When you aggregate them that boosts the OL. The “sum of the parts” is greater than the individual players. That’s the story with the Bills roster. That has been the story. They lack top end talent but have a deep roster.

Edited July 17 by Kirby Jackson

[Einstein]

15 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Or perhaps it’s an insignificant article that doesn’t contain snippets on every single player in the league.

 

Did you watch Deion last year?

[BuffaloBillyG]

On 7/16/2026 at 11:31 AM, Coach Tuesday said:

Assume you mean "other" than JA17.

 

It's a pretty sad list for a GM's resume, TBH.  Not nearly enough hits outside of the QB position.  Does anyone dispute this?

It's actually quite pathetic of a list. Especially  when you consider how long he's been here. Two names are honorable mention only. Nothing on defense. I can't think of many franchises that have so few guys rated high at their position. 

 

It truly goes to show how much 17 covers up for. 

Edited July 17 by BuffaloBillyG

[4merper4mer]

5 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Did you watch Deion last year?

 

5 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Did you watch Deion last year?

What?

[below]

On 7/16/2026 at 11:31 AM, Coach Tuesday said:

Assume you mean "other" than JA17.

 

It's a pretty sad list for a GM's resume, TBH.  Not nearly enough hits outside of the QB position.  Does anyone dispute this?

I scanned a few of the lists and saw mostly former first round picks.

 

Lots of guys drafted in the top-10 or top 5.

 

Almost all drafted within the past six years.

 

During those six years the Bills' first selection has been 30, 23, 25, 33, 30, 35.

 

Teams mostly acquire their elite players by being bad and drafting high. When you draft low every year it's much harder. Hence the BIlls have many good players, but few elite.

[nuklz2594]

On 7/16/2026 at 1:59 PM, Gregg said:

 

The Bills have a good not great roster. Allen definitely makes them look better than they are. Take Allen off this team and they are probably a 7 to 9-win team with an average QB.  Less wins with a bad QB

take Allen off the team and there is no new stadium

[nuklz2594]

On 7/16/2026 at 5:11 PM, DCofNC said:

 

I sometimes question if anyone here actually watches games outside of the Bills game or if they do, is it sober?  This whole idea that this is a “complete roster” is BS. The DL has been mediocre at best for the better part of a decade, the LB group has been one of the weakest in the league for about as long and the secondary hasn’t been anything special since Hyde got hurt. 
 

The OL is solid, not spectacular, the WR group has been a joke for years, Knox is still the best TE on the roster until Kincaid can stay healthy and Cook is a real good back.  The only thing complete about this team is the complete waste of cap space and waste of JAs prime years.

bills are a respectable team...after the drought years. not great when a great moment is needed. if bills draft ladd instead of keon, a very different wr room. hell I'd still trade for DJ. wr room of Shakir, Moore, and ladd, and rookie bell.....very formidable wr room

[vincec]

On 7/16/2026 at 2:21 PM, eball said:

Another thread devolving into a moratorium on Brandon Beane, with predictable responses on both sides.

 

Under Beane the Bills have operated under only one defensive system -- McDermott's.

 

I don't think it's a stretch to say that defensive players such as Oliver, Benford, and Rousseau are respected around the league. We'll see if a defensive scheme change results in players receiving more individual accolades this season.

 

It could go the other way too. I wonder how players like Benford and Bishop will look outside of McDermotts pass / zone focused defense. Remember that they were drafted at least in part because of their fit in that scheme.

[machine gun kelly]

On 7/16/2026 at 12:03 PM, Allen2Moulds said:

I've been pretty critical of Beane, but the list misses the mark on a few players.

 

Spencer Brown

McGovern

Benford

 

 

My list would be as follows:

 

After Allen:

 

Cook

Davis as he’s the #1 kick returner in the league in 2025

Dawkins

McGovern

Brown

Oliver

Bishop

Benford

 

In years past when MTC on NFLR would rate rooms.  They are doing it differently this year as the network guys reduced their show to 3 hours from 4.

 

My top 10 rooms are:

 

OL

TE

RB

Secondary - that’s a projection as Leonard has to put it all together.

 

I didn't add QB as after Allen, we’re thin.  I’ve thought for years Allen is the best most dynamic QB in the league and shown with Mahomes decline over three years.  Burrow can’t finish a season.  If we still had Trubisky, I would’ve added QB.  I don’t trust Kyle Allen at all.