Josh’s comments on HC change…interesting

[GaryPinC]

13 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think GB hit on the way it probably played out. They likely already knew where he stood. They made sure that he didn’t object and moved on. You don’t make that move without knowing how he will react. 

 

The Beane part is pure speculation on my end. Josh and Beane are close. They golf together. It’s less about, “I think he’s a great GM and really appreciate the job he does” and more about, “that’s my guy and want him here.” I’m not saying that happened but I could see it happening. 

Cool, yeah afterwards I agree.  Myself, I also think Pegs probably talked through why he was doing it to Josh, without asking for his explicit approval.  You pull Josh in when you are building the team, but you don't hang anything on him when tearing it down.  

 

As far as Beane, I just can't see that happening in that conversation.  But to your point, who knows?

 

One other point, I could see Josh's say being more important in the NBA, as the players have more power there.  But for the NFL, I think respecting him by informing, explaining and answering questions seems more realistic

Edited July 13 by GaryPinC

[eball]

4 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

He is human, he is a competitor he knew there was no way we were progressing any further with McDermott.

 

The bolded part is absolutely true. I don't believe the rest of it. It's just my opinion, but I don't believe Josh places "blame" on anyone but himself when it comes to the success or failure of the Buffalo Bills. I believe Josh always thinks if he had done something better, things would have worked out.

 

This doesn't mean that in retrospect, Josh can't or won't acknowledge change was necessary (recent comments).

 

I have reached the conclusion that I believe Pegula made this decision on his own for the benefit of Josh Allen without seeking Allen's blessings first.

 

 

Edited July 13 by eball

[transient]

13 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Compare apples to apples if you’re going to ask comparing questions.  Your question should be “Do you think Balt decided to fire Harbaugh, but before they did, ran it by Lamar to make the final decision?”

 

That is verbatim what is being claimed here about Allen.  And the answer is categorically no.  

I'm not claiming the scenarios are the same. I'm addressing the highlighted part of your post. I'm interpreting your stance as owners never get input from players before making a decision like this. Bisciotti basically acknowledged that he took the temperature of the room with several veteran players on the Ravens before firing Harbaugh. They didn't have input directly into the decision, but essentially they were consulted. It's not as absolute as I believe you're making it seem to be. 

 

Do I think Allen had input or sign off or anything, no, probably not. I do think Terry let him know before it officially happened and I do think at the very least there was a pause in the conversation for Pegula to gauge Allen's reaction to it. One of the contentions is what if Allen disagreed, then what happens. The counterfactual is what if they didn't let Allen know and he disagreed and became a distraction in the media. It would be out of character, but it's not impossible. That brief heads up can become a more detailed discussion before the deed is done if needed. It would look pretty bad for the organization if the face of the franchise's reaction was similar to Daquan Jones's or Shaq Lawson's or Jordan Phillips's reactions, for instance. Once the ax falls there's limited time for them to be able to control the narrative before the media circus begins. I'm assuming they had as much as they determined necessary squared away ahead of time.

Edited July 13 by transient

[Alphadawg7]

25 minutes ago, transient said:

I'm not claiming the scenarios are the same. I'm addressing the highlighted part of your post. I'm interpreting your stance as owners never get input from players before making a decision like this. Bisciotti basically acknowledged that he took the temperature of the room with several veteran players on the Ravens before firing Harbaugh. They didn't have input directly into the decision, but essentially they were consulted. It's not as absolute as I believe you're making it seem to be. 

 

Do I think Allen had input or sign off or anything, no, probably not. I do think Terry let him know before it officially happened and I do think at the very least there was a pause in the conversation for Pegula to gauge Allen's reaction to it. One of your contentions is what if Allen disagreed, then what happens. The counterfactual is what if they didn't let Allen know and he disagreed and became a distraction in the media. It would be out of character, but it's not impossible. That brief heads up can become a more detailed discussion before the deed is done if needed. It would look pretty bad for the organization if the face of the franchise's reaction was similar to Daquan Jones's or Shaq Lawson's or Jordan Phillips's reactions, for instance. Once the ax falls there's limited time for them to be able to control the narrative before the media circus begins. I'm assuming they had as much as they determined necessary squared away ahead of time.

 

That’s exactly the point...we’re talking about two completely different scenarios.

 

In Baltimore, ownership was still evaluating whether a coaching change was necessary. Seeking input from veteran players before reaching a decision is perfectly reasonable and happens around the league.

 

What’s being claimed here is something entirely different: that Terry Pegula had already decided to fire Sean McDermott after the Denver game, then went to Josh Allen and essentially gave him the ability to approve or stop that decision. Those aren’t remotely comparable situations.

 

If ownership is undecided and wants to gather information, that’s one thing. If ownership has already made the decision and hands final authority to a player, that’s another. I’ve never seen credible evidence that an NFL owner operates that way, especially with a multibillion-dollar franchise.

 

More importantly, every person actually involved has said the opposite. Terry Pegula has repeatedly stated it was 100% his decision. Brandon Beane has never suggested Josh had any role. Josh Allen himself has never claimed he approved, blessed, or signed off on anything. Every credible report has been consistent that the decision was Terry’s and Terry’s alone.

 

At some point, evidence has to outweigh speculation. If someone has reporting or firsthand information that contradicts Pegula, Allen, Beane, and every reputable report that’s come out, then let’s see it. Otherwise, we’re just inventing a narrative because it’s more interesting than the facts.

 

That’s what I find frustrating. We have direct statements from the people who actually made the decision, yet people continue to argue for a version of events supported only by assumptions. Whether Josh agreed with the move is ultimately irrelevant...the evidence overwhelmingly shows it wasn’t his decision to make.

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

For real? You believe every single thing that NFL owners and GMs say? 

 

To Not throw your star player under the bus is not a conspiracy lol . It should be common sense that he would never throw Josh under the bus like that, regardless if you believe Pegula made the call with Josh's approval or not 

 

There are overwhelming facts that 100% dispute your assumptions.  At what point does evidence, facts, and direct statements by everyone become more credible than the assumptions?  Seriously, this isn't something we have no info on, yet here you and some others are just completely making up a new narrative and presenting it as if it is exactly what happened.

 

And honestly, who even cares if Allen was consulted or not...blesser it or not?  Change has been made, excitement is there around the change inside and outside the organization, and none of this matters.  If news broker tomorrow Allen wanted McD fired and told Terry to fire him, it literally would make 0% difference to anything other than maybe McD's personal feelings on the matter.  

 

All good, go Bills!  I personally don't care what did or didn't happen...the only reason I even participated in this convo is because I find it frustrating to me when people completley disregard or ignore all known facts just to argue their personal assumptions as fact rather than just presenting as an opinion.

Edited July 13 by Alphadawg7

[BillsFan130]

26 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

There are overwhelming facts that 100% dispute your assumptions.  At what point does evidence, facts, and direct statements by everyone become more credible than the assumptions?  Seriously, this isn't something we have no info on, yet here you and some others are just completely making up a new narrative and presenting it as if it is exactly what happened.

 

And honestly, who even cares if Allen was consulted or not...blesser it or not?  Change has been made, excitement is there around the change inside and outside the organization, and none of this matters.  If news broker tomorrow Allen wanted McD fired and told Terry to fire him, it literally would make 0% difference to anything other than maybe McD's personal feelings on the matter.  

 

All good, go Bills!  I personally don't care what did or didn't happen...the only reason I even participated in this convo is because I find it frustrating to me when people completley disregard or ignore all known facts just to argue their personal assumptions as fact rather than just presenting as an opinion.

I respect your opinion.

 

Where we differ is I just don't take Pegulas statement as a "fact". The farthest thing from actually .
 

Whether you're right or I'm right, Pegula would never admit Josh Allen had a hand in getting rid of McDermott as that would be completely throwing Josh under the bus.

 

 

Edited July 13 by BillsFan130

[Alphadawg7]

13 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

I respect your opinion.

 

Where we differ is I just don't take Pegulas statement as a "fact". The farthest thing from actually .
 

Whether you're right or I'm right, Pegula would never admit Josh Allen had a hand in getting rid of McDermott as that would be completely throwing Josh under the bus.

 

 

 

All good bro!  GO BILLS!