Augie Posted July 3 Posted July 3 (edited) 6 hours ago, Einstein said: Of course it was sustainable. That’s why it sustained for over 6 decades. The Bills had no trouble fielding a team and going to Super Bowls when tickets were cheap as $30, $40, $50. That vast majority of their revenue is derived from their TV share and their sponsorships. Tickets make up for less than 15%. More importantly, “best bargain in sports” was never an argument that prices were too low. It was simply a reflection of Buffalo’s lower cost of living. We don’t say Buffalo has “the best bargain in steaks” because a steak costs 3x less than it does in New York City or Los Angeles. We recognize that restaurants, labor, rent, taxes, and operating costs are all lower. The same is true for housing. A $300,000 home in Buffalo can easily cost $1 million or more in many NFL markets. Lower prices don’t automatically mean something is underpriced, they simply reflect the local economy. In other words, Bills ticket prices were aligned with the purchasing power of Western New York. That wasn’t a flaw in the business model but rather a reflection of the market they served. There is no evidence that keeping tickets affordable was somehow preventing the organization from succeeding financially. What’s changed isn’t that the old prices were “unsustainable.” What’s changed is that demand has increased due to Josh Allen and the team has decided to capture more consumer surplus. That’s a perfectly rational business decision, but fans are equally justified in saying they preferred when season tickets reflected the local economy rather than being priced closer to wealthier markets. I’m sorry, I had to stop at the first paragraph. The Bills could afford to field a competitive team with $30-50 tickets because their star QB signed a 7 year $20 Mil contract in 1990. Josh makes $20 Mil before the bye week in year one of his deal. That could be a bit misleading to some people who like to latch onto that kind of stuff. It’s not that simplistic. You like math and presentations, so how have Bills ticket prices risen in relation to the cost of the star QB over the years? Median face value ticket then until now vs the cost of the QB over that period. I’d like a graph or two, preferably with pretty colors. I may get burned on that, but I really doubt it and I’m genuinely curious. . Edited July 3 by Augie
WotAGuy Posted July 3 Posted July 3 29 minutes ago, Augie said: You like math and presentations, so how have Bills ticket prices risen in relation to the cost of the star QB over the years? Median face value ticket then until now vs the cost of the QB over that period. I’d like a graph or two, preferably with pretty colors. . And bring me a beer while you’re at it. 2
Einstein Posted July 4 Posted July 4 3 hours ago, Augie said: I’m sorry, I had to stop at the first paragraph. The Bills could afford to field a competitive team with $30-50 tickets because their star QB signed a 7 year $20 Mil contract in 1990. Josh makes $20 Mil before the bye week in year one of his deal. That could be a bit misleading to some people who like to latch onto that kind of stuff. It’s not that simplistic. That would make sense if Allen's contract necessitated a higher ticket price to keep the team financially viable. But that is not the case. The numbers show that the Bills could have charged $0 per ticket last season and still made a profit.
Augie Posted July 4 Posted July 4 5 minutes ago, Einstein said: That would make sense if Allen's contract necessitated a higher ticket price to keep the team financially viable. But that is not the case. The numbers show that the Bills could have charged $0 per ticket last season and still made a profit. …and you could donate your salary to a fine charitable cause. Give half and you can still get by.
RichRiderBills Posted July 4 Posted July 4 7 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: They had a target goal of selling out by the spring. They have sold all PSLs for 30 years, 6 months before they had hoped to. I would say we can call that a success. The stadium was priced in a manner that all current people would be able to swing it. A huge percentage of the stadium are returning customers for many years. I do know that as I do occasionally talk to the leadership within that department and Legends. It was a massive success. The ability to finance the PSLs over 10 years, made it available to everyone. There hasn’t been available Bills seats to the public for years. That’s not a thing anymore in the NFL. Season Ticket Holders own all of them. That’s been the case. That’s still the case. There aren’t a bunch of “wine and cheese” crowd that was just waiting their turn to pounce on tickets that they didn’t previously own. All current season ticket holders had the opportunity to remain and the overwhelming majority of them did (75%ish I think). Those people are there for the next 30 years. I am sorry to come across dismissive but this is a conversation that we have had on here for a decade. It played out exactly like it was always going to play out despite the fear mongering and misinformation that was everywhere back then. Addendum: Now, over time you may see these PSL holders sell off some of their games. You’ll see more opposing fans when that happens. Generally they’re willing to pay a higher price for a road game experience. The Bills fans know that as well as anyone. That’s what we do. That’s how all sports work in 2026. The tickets though are all owned, for the next 30 years, by the same Bills fans, like me and many others here, that have been going for decades. A few items here: We are not arguing the seats sold we are discussing the ramifications of who bought them, what effect the costs will have, and how it will play out on resale tickets market, and on the vibe of game and the ongoing success. I don't know what you mean by saying there are no available bills seats to the public. That's nonsense. The costs and tix price to s in looney to ones land 300-400 per ticket on open market in an area with a 55k avg household income. It's terrible math. It's worse than LA and San Fran. It's silly.
Einstein Posted July 4 Posted July 4 25 minutes ago, Augie said: …and you could donate your salary to a fine charitable cause. Give half and you can still get by. And that's why I said I don't blame them. It's a perfectly rational business decision, but fans are equally justified in saying they preferred when season tickets reflected the local economy rather than being priced closer to wealthier markets. 1
Kirby Jackson Posted July 4 Posted July 4 (edited) 10 hours ago, RichRiderBills said: A few items here: We are not arguing the seats sold we are discussing the ramifications of who bought them, what effect the costs will have, and how it will play out on resale tickets market, and on the vibe of game and the ongoing success. I don't know what you mean by saying there are no available bills seats to the public. That's nonsense. The costs and tix price to s in looney to ones land 300-400 per ticket on open market in an area with a 55k avg household income. It's terrible math. It's worse than LA and San Fran. It's silly. The Bills haven’t “gone on sale” to the public in years. That’s not a thing anymore. That’s the case for most of the NFL. The seats that you see to buy are already owned by a season ticket holders. What they paid is what the Bills charged. What you see listed is what the market is willing to pay. Seats in my section sold for between 6x-7x what we paid for them for the Lions game. Obviously resale tickets are available. That’s also true for 100% of events that take place in the US. The pricing on the secondary market is supply and demand. Teams cater to season ticket holders and season ticket holders only. That’s who they are responsible for. It’s a hard reality but that’s true for every team in the NFL. The WNY market had no problem purchasing the season tickets with PSLs. 75% of the people came back. The stadium shrunk on top of that. It is almost exclusively the same people as before. This thought that there’d be some wildly different demographic was always wrong. Misinformation was everywhere. The Bills and Legends knew exactly what they were doing. The part that people missed is that they thought they’d price out the people with the lowest spends. It was quite the opposite. They saw an increase, and PSLs but it was not punitive. The clubs are the people that were hit the hardest. A giant chunk of that PSL revenue is from a small number of tickets. That’s how it was designed. The PSLs weren’t priced to push out the guy that had a couple of endzone seats or a few seats in the balcony. They were priced to get a significant chunk from the people in the premium areas. That’s why they were sold first starting with the most expensive locations and working backwards. How those sold determined how the rest of the stadium would be priced. The clubs filling on schedule allowed them to keep the rest of the stadium pricing down. 9 hours ago, Einstein said: And that's why I said I don't blame them. It's a perfectly rational business decision, but fans are equally justified in saying they preferred when season tickets reflected the local economy rather than being priced closer to wealthier markets. The revenue is shared though. It’s tough to tell other teams (aka your business partners) “You sell your tickets for $250 and we will sell ours for $50 because your area is wealthier. We will then pool that $300 to pay the players.” Sports are a business now and operate as such. If people want change, they need to speak with their wallets and viewing. Edited July 4 by Kirby Jackson
Sierra Foothills Posted July 4 Posted July 4 5 hours ago, WotAGuy said: And bring me a beer while you’re at it. I'll have what he's having ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Buffalo ill Posted July 4 Posted July 4 14 hours ago, eball said: Sorry you get the brunt of this, but enough with the whining about fans being “locked out.” Bills fans enjoyed the best bargain in professional sports for decades and could appreciate what they had rather than crying about their decision not to pay for seats in the new stadium. Change is a part of life, and it was long past overdue for the Bills to have a modern stadium with modern fan amenities. The place will be sold out for years with a lot of very happy Bills fans enjoying their team. It’s not the job of Terry Pegula or the NFL to make tickets cheap for Bills fans. I do believe in capitalism and if people are willing to pay (imo waaaaaaaay more than it's worth) to attend games then I hate to say they probably aren't overpriced ("price" does not have to mean "worth"). I live out west in a redneck state and shake my head at coworkers paying 30k for a Polaris side by side (atv). They will then dump thousands into light bars, aftermarket shocks, and other accessories. You can buy multiple old jeeps for that amount. They are the same people buying (financing) jet boats for (even used ones) for over $120k. I think it is maddness and not WORTH what they pay, but so long as people will throw their money at it, it's not overpriced. It's the same with football tickets. I think the people paying for them are either rich or making really bad financial decisions. But if the league can find people to rake over the coals they have no reason to stop. Now I will say it's scummy to make the taxpayers fund the stadium but then price the tickets like they are trying to quickly pay off a stadium mortgage. The real losers in this are the people paying the tax who don't watch football (i assume there are 5-10 of them living in the Buffalo area) but still get to pay for it. 2
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