transplantbillsfan Posted June 27 Posted June 27 4 hours ago, DCofNC said: I always knew things were going to get we were when they legalize cannabis, but I really need some of whatever you got. There is literally no one that has any of the Bills skill position groups ranked as high as you do. How high do I have them ranked? Can you enlighten me because I didn't know I had a number. Most of this thread I have been disagreeing with Barnwell who thinks we're 4th worst and @QB Bills who said he thought we were the worst. Quote
transplantbillsfan Posted June 27 Posted June 27 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: Addendum: If there is something to be offended by it’s that he has them lower than last year. They added Moore and Bell and subtracted Samuel and Elijah Moore. James Cook won the rushing title and Hawes looks like a valuable role player. It’s a difficult argument to make that they should be lower than 2025. Quote
PrimeTime101 Posted June 27 Posted June 27 Bill Barnwell does this stuff all the time.. he adjusts what he thinks is more important, then he uses the silly grading system to get him clicks and likes.. its like moving to goal posts to fit his narratives. In the grand scheme of things... we have a solid OL and our WR threats comes from multiple positions that make us hard to game plan. Our WR room took an upgrade this season with Moore... last season Bills scoring offense ranked 4th. tied i believe.. with Moore we are better... NE is not going to put up 490 points this year with their schedule.. i do not see it... so yea.. Bill Barnwell can say whatever he wants. he got his clicks. 1 Quote
Kirby Jackson Posted June 27 Author Posted June 27 1 hour ago, chris heff said: I’m not offended by this, I just think Barnwell decided what conclusion he wanted to reach and then manipulated things to get there. Football is arguably more of a team sport than any other. Barnwell discounts that because it doesn’t fit his agenda. Why write a piece on skill positions, throw out the most important and then over weight one position over others? Barnwell’s objective is selling his news letter. He writes those pieces too. When he does his QBs the Bills will be at, or right near, the top. This was the skill position one. 1 Quote
chris heff Posted June 27 Posted June 27 28 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: He writes those pieces too. When he does his QBs the Bills will be at, or right near, the top. This was the skill position one. Fair enough, but if he writes a separate piece on QBs, why do the same for WRs, TEs and RBs? Quote
Kirby Jackson Posted June 27 Author Posted June 27 16 minutes ago, chris heff said: Fair enough, but if he writes a separate piece on QBs, why do the same for WRs, TEs and RBs? My guess is because they need content in June. He could write one article on which offense is best (or team). He could write 1 a week for 6 weeks or whatever and go into greater detail on position groups. 1 Quote
pennstate10 Posted June 27 Posted June 27 6 hours ago, GoBills808 said: absolutely no OK. Then explain to me how a fumble recovered by the fumbling team a major effect onna game Quote
GoBills808 Posted June 27 Posted June 27 22 minutes ago, pennstate10 said: OK. Then explain to me how a fumble recovered by the fumbling team a major effect onna game the 'e' in epa stands for expected ie outcome neutral. Since recovering fumbles is almost entirely a function of chance it makes sense from a predictive standpoint to treat all fumbles the same regardless of who happens to end up w the ball Quote
transplantbillsfan Posted June 28 Posted June 28 12 hours ago, HappyDays said: Hmm I'm a big fan of the Moore trade but I'm not sure I'd bet on those numbers. I think Moore will flirt with 1,000. He is the clear #1 but he is not a true alpha #1 that you feed targets to. I also still expect us to be a pretty run heavy team. Moore's presence on the field alone will be a huge boon to the offense though because defenses won't be able to cheat inside like they did when our #1 outside WR was Keon Coleman. There will also be times where we need some pass catcher to make a big play in a big moment and Moore is easily our best option there. So I don't need him to rack up those gaudy stats for the trade to be considered a success. Great reasons for @QB Bills and @BillsFanForever19 to take the bet! In the end, I think they're both blowing a lot of hot air. As for your points, I don't discount the possibility, but I see this unfolding differently. First of all... as much as Josh Allen is the ultimate team player who will always say he's equally happy whether he throws 50 passes or 5, does anyone fully believe that? This is the kid who wrote 1000 letters our of High School just to play QB in college and has been doubted and criticized to some degree every step of the way thereafter. Josh wants to air the ***** ball out. Top that off with the fact that Joe Brady is CONSTANTLY saying how much he's a Sean Payton disciple, and I expect significantly more pass and less run than last year. Keep in mind that Payton offenses are traditionally very pass heavy when run by a good to Elite QB... see last year and basically all of prime Brees years. Plus you have Brady's 2 years in Carolina when their pass rate was 8% higher than last year in Buffalo. I don't think Buffalo is going to suddenly become one of the top 10 or even 15 teams in the NFL as far as pass % this season, but I highly doubt they're the 2nd heaviest run heavy team in the NFL. And even dropping to 7th or 8th as far as rush %, I see a lot of that compensation going to DJ Moore 1 Quote
colin Posted June 28 Posted June 28 I just did a lil AI check, spot checked it a bit so it's likely not so far off. Our wr and te group combined was about 10-12 in production in the NFL (yards). Rams and cowboys were top two with a bullet. Our backs were the best in running, ok but not good in receiving production. It's obvious we struggled badly vs press coverage and had the worst verticality in the NFL, and our wr group when accounted for injuries was never even top half. With kinkiad out our tight ends went from top 3 (I think the best) to middle of the pack. Now, I think you can say the scheme oline and especially Josh Allen goosed these numbers above what they would be if those things were all replacement level, but if that health and breadth if talent disaster led to those numbers (including the NFL rushing champion) I really don't see how you can drop them below even 16th unless you think they will be less healthy this season and that moore and bell are just absolute trash. Our EPA passing was very high in a per play basis, and if you make any kind of adjustment based on the quality of d we faced or injuries, I think you hit a hard floor of like 12th if we include running backs and tight ends. It's sophistry disguised as sophistication. 1 Quote
NewEra Posted June 28 Posted June 28 22 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: My guess is because they need content in June. He could write one article on which offense is best (or team). He could write 1 a week for 6 weeks or whatever and go into greater detail on position groups. I’d like to see where he ranks the Bills TE and RB units. Both easily top 10- possibly closer to 5 imo. WR is better than the last 2 years, but still very close to the bottom. I think Barnwell did us slightly dirty. Of the teams he had ranked ahead of us, I would rank our “playmakers” ahead of the Titans, Raiders, panthers and commanders. 1 Quote
Thrivefourfive Posted June 28 Posted June 28 How dare the ESPN man cherry pick to spotlight one of Beane’s perceived roster construction weaknesses 😡(😂) The whole ranking just to make the Bills look bad! It’s a conspiracy I tell ya! Anti-BUF NFL machine at work. Choosing WR as the most important, explosive skill position.. Know what concerns me.. that it’s all true. Again. Saying Moore is 29 and had his worst season. Yeah, that popped my balloon and dropped me back down to earth 🤬 Did Beane make a worse mistake than Coleman/Palmer/E.Moore/Harry/Sherfield/Samuel/Hardman by putting all those eggs in one basket in DJ Moore. Hope not, but how can we possibly trust Beane to get that right Quote
BillyJoeBills Posted June 29 Posted June 29 https://www.buffalorumblings.com/buffalo-bills-discussion/136042/espn-ranks-buffalo-bills-near-the-bottom-of-nfl-offensive-playmaker-groups Other than James Cook, Barnwell thinks that no other playmaker on the Bills is to be excited about. Thinks that DJ Moore is the least imposing top wideout in the league. His ranking doesn’t include QBs and OL, so our offense would probably much higher since that’s our offensive strengths. My unbiased take? I think that’s a fair ranking of our playmakers and we have Beane to thank for his neglect in surrounding Josh with skilled playmakers. If Josh gets injured, we’re screwed. 1 Quote
eball Posted June 29 Posted June 29 Thank god someone started a thread on this topic. I've been trying to figure out where to discuss it. 3 Quote
BuffaloBillyG Posted June 29 Posted June 29 Just now, BillyJoeBills said: https://www.buffalorumblings.com/buffalo-bills-discussion/136042/espn-ranks-buffalo-bills-near-the-bottom-of-nfl-offensive-playmaker-groups Other than James Cook, Barnwell thinks that no other playmaker on the Bills is to be excited about. Thinks that DJ Moore is the least imposing top wideout in the league. His ranking doesn’t include QBs and OL, so our offense would probably much higher since that’s our offensive strengths. My unbiased take? I think that’s a fair ranking of our playmakers and we have Beane to thank for his neglect in surrounding Josh with skilled playmakers. If Josh gets injured, we’re screwed. I really don't. DJ Moore is still better than more than a few teams have. The Raiders and Dolphins immediately spring to mind. Dalton Kincaid has the ability to be a huge mismatch when healthy. Of course, that will remain to be seen if he can be. Shakir is a fine #3 WR. Knox, while not spectacular, is still better than many TE2 out there and Hawes is in the top of the TE3 rating. Davis and Johnson are League average at RB2 & RB3. Sure, if Barnwell is talking about fantasy points he may have something there. But in actual on the field football, we have talent. And if Josh gets hurt we are ALWAYS going to be bad as we have very very bad backup QB options. In fact, if Josh were to lose a lot of time to an injury, it wouldn't shock me to see the Bills trade for a Flacco level backup instead of starting either of the other jokers long term. 2 Quote
sunshynman Posted June 29 Posted June 29 (edited) Pompous Windbag! I'll agree we lack stars other than Cook and Allen. But the TE's are better than average. Or 2nd and 3rd RB's are better than average. And a WR unit is better than it's been in years. Look at all that WR talent in Cincy, they only got one SB appearance so far. I'd take the sum of our 0 talent and scheme over all but a few. I'm still a bit salty we didn't get Shaheed at the trade deadline last year. Rashid, Moore, Shakir, 4/5 mix would have been awesome. I'd put us minus OL and Allen in the middle of the pack still. Edited June 29 by sunshynman Quote
BillyJoeBills Posted June 29 Posted June 29 Knox, Kincaid ain’t going to scare anyone. DJ Moore, Shakur, Coleman, Palmer, Bell ain’t going to keep defensive coordinators up at night. James Cook is the only scary playmaker, and Ty Johnson is an ex Jet reject. Barnwell’s right; I don’t like it, but let’s face up to the truth. If it wasn’t for Josh, we’d be swimming with the Fish. 1 Quote
JP51 Posted June 29 Posted June 29 I remain frustrated with Beane's proclivity to obtain game changing talent, this analysis reflects that... years of over spending on D to C- talent have hurt us... would I put us this low no... but I dont dispute this persons opinion/analysis. Quote
BillyJoeBills Posted June 29 Posted June 29 21 minutes ago, JP51 said: I remain frustrated with Beane's proclivity to obtain game changing talent, this analysis reflects that... years of over spending on D to C- talent have hurt us... would I put us this low no... but I dont dispute this persons opinion/analysis. Unbelievable, we have the greatest QB in the universe and who does Beane draft in the first 2 rounds in past 2 yrs? Hairston, Sanders, Parker, Igbinosun; all defense. If Josh can make Gabe Davis look All World w 4tds vs KC, imagine if he had a top WR or TE? Sam Darnold was nothing before he had Justin Jefferson and Jaxon Smith Njigba to throw to. Why can’t Beane see that? You’re right, I’m very frustrated like you. 1 Quote
blitzboy54 Posted June 29 Posted June 29 Two thoughts, This is a Brandon Beane thread and Bill isn't wrong. Quote
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