Barnwell ranks offensive playmakers outside of QB

[chris heff]

40 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

first point, Yes Ladd is better than Shakir, by a really wide margin and I’m a huge Shakir fan.  DJ Moore has proven to be a good WR, but we are looking at the possibility of him being more Curtis Samuel than Diggs.  Time will tell.   No matter how you shake it, based on the AJ Brown deal, the Beane got worked hard.

McConkey and Shakir’s stats for 2025 are nearly identical, how is that a wide margin? No matter how you shake what? AJ Brown is the definition of a prima donna, if he isn’t the primary target for that offense he will start whining again. 

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

one could argue that Amon has 5 years of large volume. 
 

depending on how you chalk cook he has maybe as few as one bell cow.
 

Last year in general was a bit of an outlier season where Amon ra has 5 pretty tightly compressed 

 

If we stretch cook to 3 years as a heavy workload he did have 4 fumbles that first year but I won’t pretend to remember context on how they occurred. 

I’m also factoring in 297 touches at Georgia (0 fumbles), which is about as close to the NFL as it gets. Lead RBs also have WAY more touches than WRs. The math is incontrovertible on that. 

[DCofNC]

1 hour ago, chris heff said:

McConkey and Shakir’s stats for 2025 are nearly identical, how is that a wide margin? No matter how you shake what? AJ Brown is the definition of a prima donna, if he isn’t the primary target for that offense he will start whining again. 

how do you see them as virtually identical with McConkey having 450 more yards and 3 more TDs in his second season vs Shakir’s 4th and Shakir having the far better QB? 
 

Mcconkey’s career numbers aren’t far off Shakir and he’s played 2 less seasons.  Shakir is a dog and I love the guy, but he’s not in the same league.

[Ayjent]

Bill Barnwell's articles have always been too analytical and he often lets the stats give context rather context dictate the importance of the stat.   What he is doing here is a useless exercise taking a specific format of evaluation that tells you nothing but that the guy likes meaningless evaluations that are at best useless stat experiments. 

Edited June 27 by Ayjent

[Artful Dodger]

On 6/25/2026 at 11:16 AM, Don Otreply said:

This is subject matter that has been brought up repeatedly by members here, we really only have Allen & Cook,  with a lot of okay/ solid guys surrounding them we could truly stand to have three or five guys between O & D make a jump into the truly above average level of performance, saying this doesn’t change my view that with the off season changes the team made we really do have an opportunity/ potential to do a better job of using the guys we have in better ways to make them very successful, we had in the past a lot of square peg round hole thinking, I believe that has changed for the better, 

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I hope you're right that the problem has been the misuse of the players, but if not, I hope that in future years the Bills will allocate more resources to the offense and let the defense just do the best it can with what it's got.  It would be incredibly entertaining to watch Allen with a top-notch group of receivers.  The Bills might smash every scoring record in the book.  And if a team can score 40 or 50 points per game, it would be difficult even for a mediocre or bad defense to give up that many points consistently.    

 

[transplantbillsfan]

[transplantbillsfan]

So with the @BillsFanForever19 & @QB Bills hate of our newly acquired #1 WR, why don't we make a friendly wager rather than keep screaming at the hills and @ing eachother.

 

Stefon Diggs was at the very least a top 10 NFL WR during his entire stint in Buffalo, was he not?

 

I bet you both that Moore matches or exceeds 2023 of Diggs in TDs (8) and yards (1183).

 

That is obviously without any serious injuries... so let's say minimum 15 games played.

 

You name the stakes. And you both have to agree on the stakes.

 

Clearly neither of you think there's any chance of Moore being a top 10 WR at this point with your pretty staunchly held stances on him as a beneficial added weapon, so I can't imagine you'd have any issue betting against him as a top 10 WR in 2026.

[DCofNC]

On 6/26/2026 at 2:34 AM, transplantbillsfan said:

 

 

We all know Josh is the lynchpin for Buffalo more than any other player or QB in the NFL. He is literally the MVP of the NFL every year since 2020.

 

However, you're being obtuse.

 

To find out how talented the weapons are on a team, put a middle of the road NFL QB on the team and ask yourself if that team sinks or swims.

 

So... you say without Josh Allen the Bills offense, which has probably a top 5 OL room, top 3 TE room and top 5 RB room and an inarguably upgraded WR room is at best a 4 win team if it had a middle of the road QB like Sam Darnold, Brock Purdy, Baker Mayfield or whatever middle of the road QB you want to fill in there?

 

You're sillier than Barnwell.

I always knew things were going to get we were when they legalize cannabis, but I really need some of whatever you got.  There is literally no one that has any of the Bills skill position groups ranked as high as you do.

[chris heff]

12 hours ago, DCofNC said:

how do you see them as virtually identical with McConkey having 450 more yards and 3 more TDs in his second season vs Shakir’s 4th and Shakir having the far better QB? 
 

Mcconkey’s career numbers aren’t far off Shakir and he’s played 2 less seasons.  Shakir is a dog and I love the guy, but he’s not in the same league.

In 2025          McConkey.    Shakir

receptions.         66.                72

 

receiving.           789.              719

yards

 

yards per.             12.                 10

 

touchdowns.           6.                 4

 

I clearly said 2025, I see 70 more yards not 450, 2 more TDs not 3. If you want to make career comparisons, Shakir played sparingly in his rookie season, as opposed to McConkey, who by default became the primary receiver. McConkey’s production dropped off from year one to year two, he saw more man coverage, he struggled against the more physical matchups and Keenan Allen returned. Since entering the starting lineup in his second season, Shakir has been reliable and the model of consistency.

[SoTier]

19 hours ago, QB Bills said:

Unnecessarily rude but okay.

 

You obviously don't watch much football outside of getting liquored up for Bills games. 

 

This team has literally zero impact players outside of Allen and maybe James Cook. And even Cook has Allen to thank for that. Swap Josh and Darnold and Seattle goes undefeated this past season while the Bills would be contemplating drafting Ty Simpson with the 6th pick in this past draft.

 

Josh Allen isn't just the best QB in the league. He's the best by a country mile and masks a highly suspect roster. The OL is not anywhere close to being top 5 in pass blocking. Good run blocking unit, sure. Top 3 TE room? I'd trade all of the tight ends on the roster for any of Kittle, McBride, Bowers. Teams with competent receivers don't regularly trot out 3 TE sets. The Bills pretty much are forced to so you think we have a "top 3 TE room".

 

Guys like Barnwell and Warren Sharp actually do their research and dig into game film and look at advanced stats unlike fans like you who goes by "feels" and type with their pompoms on.

 

Unfortunately, what Barnwell is researching is meaningless.   Results on the field are what counts, not where a team ranks on some media guy's list du jour.

 

 

Edited June 27 by SoTier

[Jay_Fixit]

On 6/25/2026 at 9:36 AM, Einstein said:

Sean McDermott got this team to TWO AFC Championship games, and within one bad referee call of a third, with that horrible group.

Goes to show how good the coaching was. Roster talent has been the problem and we kept the guy who made the rosters.

Yes. It goes to show you how brutal the coaching was to consistently draft defensive players and then have the defense be the problem.

[Kirby Jackson]

21 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Unfortunately, what Barnwell is researching is meaningless.   Results on the field are what counts, not where a team ranks on some media guy's list du jour.

 

 

Right!! It’s not worth getting upset about or that surprising. I think that the Bills are 5-10 spots too low but whatever. He clearly says, “here’s a list of skill position groups, heavily weighted towards the WRs.” If he said, “here’s a list of offenses heavily weighted towards QB, the Bills would be way higher.”
 

The strength of the Bills absolutely isn’t in their skill guys (especially with the WRs being the focus). That’s not a good group. We all know that but that doesn’t mean the offense won’t remain really good. The Bills have a strong running game, very good OL and the best player in the game, at the most important position. Their pass catchers are better than a year ago even if they aren’t good compared to the rest of the league. All teams have strengths and weaknesses. This just happened to be a ranking of an area where the Bills are weak.

[chris heff]

9 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Right!! It’s not worth getting upset about or that surprising. I think that the Bills are 5-10 spots too low but whatever. He clearly says, “here’s a list of skill position groups, heavily weighted towards the WRs.” If he said, “here’s a list of offenses heavily weighted towards QB, the Bills would be way higher.”
 

The strength of the Bills absolutely isn’t in their skill guys (especially with the WRs being the focus). That’s not a good group. We all know that but that doesn’t mean the offense won’t remain really good. The Bills have a strong running game, very good OL and the best player in the game, at the most important position. Their pass catchers are better than a year ago even if they aren’t good compared to the rest of the league. All teams have strengths and weaknesses. This just happened to be a ranking of an area where the Bills are weak.

I don’t think we know what we have with this WR group. What is Moore going to look like in this offense with Josh Allen? Bell could emerge as a really pleasant surprise. With Shakir and even if Coleman doesn’t figure it out, this group could be something.

[Kirby Jackson]

11 minutes ago, chris heff said:

I don’t think we know what we have with this WR group. What is Moore going to look like in this offense with Josh Allen? Bell could emerge as a really pleasant surprise. With Shakir and even if Coleman doesn’t figure it out, this group could be something.

We don’t know with any team. On paper the WRs are somewhere between maybe 23-32. DJ Moore is probably somewhere around the 25th best WR in the NFL if he is still the guy from before last year.  Shakir is somewhere in the 40’s maybe. They don’t have another guy in the top 75. When you cumulatively look at the WRs, they are still bad (but better). It’s not reasonable to have them above like 23. It’s probably equally unreasonable to have  them last.

[pennstate10]

On 6/25/2026 at 10:23 AM, dave mcbride said:

That is pretty brutal. I think the negative EPA assigned to Cook is kinda BS, and I'd love to see the "math" behind that. I never excuse fumbling -- you can't have a RB who is a chronic fumbler -- but it is the case that he only lost 3 fumbles in the regular season (which is to be expected, given that fumble recoveries are a 50/50 proposition).  

 

By way of comparison, Cook had an extremely high AV last year of 16 (PFR's version of WAR). Hard to believe you can peg him as a negative EPA player. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CookJa01.htm

 

I hope Barnwell does an o-line comparison because the Bills' line is extremely good, relatively speaking.

I’m betting that Barnwell confused fumbles with lost fumbles. A recovered fumble should have zero impact on EPA. 

[HappyDays]

10 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Stefon Diggs was at the very least a top 10 NFL WR during his entire stint in Buffalo, was he not?

 

I bet you both that Moore matches or exceeds 2023 of Diggs in TDs (8) and yards (1183).

 

Hmm I'm a big fan of the Moore trade but I'm not sure I'd bet on those numbers. I think Moore will flirt with 1,000. He is the clear #1 but he is not a true alpha #1 that you feed targets to. I also still expect us to be a pretty run heavy team. Moore's presence on the field alone will be a huge boon to the offense though because defenses won't be able to cheat inside like they did when our #1 outside WR was Keon Coleman. There will also be times where we need some pass catcher to make a big play in a big moment and Moore is easily our best option there. So I don't need him to rack up those gaudy stats for the trade to be considered a success.

[chris heff]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

We don’t know with any team. On paper the WRs are somewhere between maybe 23-32. DJ Moore is probably somewhere around the 25th best WR in the NFL if he is still the guy from before last year.  Shakir is somewhere in the 40’s maybe. They don’t have another guy in the top 75. When you cumulatively look at the WRs, they are still bad (but better). It’s not reasonable to have them above like 23. It’s probably equally unreasonable to have  them last.

Other than the few years that Randy Moss was a Patriot, I wonder were Brady’s WR groups would have ranked? 

[Kirby Jackson]

8 minutes ago, chris heff said:

Other than the few years that Randy Moss was a Patriot, I wonder were Brady’s WR groups would have ranked? 

Probably not particularly high but better than this Bills group.
 

The entire point though is, we don’t need to get offended because he has them at 29 instead of 23 or whatever. They have a very, very good offense. Their WRs aren’t good. Both of those things are true. If he’s essentially ranking the WRs the Bills are low. If he’s ranking QBs or offenses they are high. The OL would be high. The RBs would be high. The TEs would be in the top half of the league. 
 

Addendum: If there is something to be offended by it’s that he has them lower than last year. They added Moore and Bell and subtracted Samuel and Elijah Moore. James Cook won the rushing title and Hawes looks like a valuable role player. It’s a difficult argument to make that they should be lower than 2025.

Edited June 27 by Kirby Jackson

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, pennstate10 said:

I’m betting that Barnwell confused fumbles with lost fumbles. A recovered fumble should have zero impact on EPA. 

absolutely no

[chris heff]

34 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Probably not particularly high but better than this Bills group.
 

The entire point though is, we don’t need to get offended because he has them at 29 instead of 23 or whatever. They have a very, very good offense. Their WRs aren’t good. Both of those things are true. If he’s essentially ranking the WRs the Bills are low. If he’s ranking QBs or offenses they are high. The OL would be high. The RBs would be high. The TEs would be in the top half of the league. 
 

Addendum: If there is something to be offended by it’s that he has them lower than last year. They added Moore and Bell and subtracted Samuel and Elijah Moore. James Cook won the rushing title and Hawes looks like a valuable role player. It’s a difficult argument to make that they should be lower than 2025.

I’m not offended by this, I just think Barnwell decided what conclusion he wanted to reach and then manipulated things to get there. Football is arguably more of a team sport than any other. Barnwell discounts that because it doesn’t fit his agenda. Why write a piece on skill positions, throw out the most important and then over weight one position over others? Barnwell’s objective is selling his news letter.