TYSONKO1 Posted September 3 Posted September 3 Every team in the NFL would trade their absolute best player for Josh Allen. Including the Chiefs. 2 Quote
Psautcsk Posted September 3 Posted September 3 1 hour ago, Taro Nimbus said: Garrett being 1 is not wrong 1 hour ago, Taro Nimbus said: Garrett being 1 is not wrong Who knows? I think that Josh is the best football player in the game right now. Quote
GASabresIUFan Posted September 3 Posted September 3 28 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: Just gonna leave this here.. The reason Josh & the Bills don’t have any Super Bowl rings isn't on Josh, but McD and Beane. 1 1 Quote
The Wiz Posted September 3 Posted September 3 1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said: Just gonna leave this here.. Yea twitter has been.... something today for sure. Time to unfollow a bunch of people since all I'm seeing is the "debate" between every other fan base about him being #2. 1 Quote
eball Posted September 3 Posted September 3 Congrats to Josh. Next year, coming off regular season and Super Bowl MVPs, he'll grab that top spot. Quote
Sojourner Posted September 3 Posted September 3 (edited) 5 hours ago, T.E. said: Would LA trade Garrett for Allen? In a heartbeat. Would Buffalo trade Allen for Garrett? Never. That's all you need to know about who the best player in football is. Well obviously… but we are talking about a guy that was routinely doubled on a team that barely had a lead. The guy not only set a new record but had 50% or > of the sack totals 23 teams had (only 9 were above 46 sacks). He was 3 sacks less than the entire Jets team who weren’t far off Cleveland’s standards in terms of having a lead. And had 3 sacks more than the whole of the 49ers defense. Is Josh the better player? Absolutely. Are those trade scenarios accurate? Most definitely. But giving it to him over Josh for last season isn’t totally outlandish. The only other guys to top that list who were defenders have been JJ Watt and Aaron Donald. Myles’ season was just as dominant as theirs. Again, is Josh the best player in the league and deserves of the top spot? I would say yes and certainly wouldn’t be advocating Garrett is there instead of #2. I just understand and have no problem with the totality of situations Myles worked with that led him to top that list. 4 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said: In this type of list #2 is basically #1. To be that high on the list just sets you in a very subjective top tier. That's our boy! Totally concur with this post dude. Well said. Edited September 3 by Sojourner 2 Quote
The Jokeman Posted September 3 Posted September 3 3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: Lol, Lamar missed a bunch of games; usin counting stats is disingenuous. Before his injury he led the NFL in yards per attempt (9.1) & TD rate (11%). He completed 72% of his passes. His efficiency was incredible. It is the top 100 players or 2026. The list is based on what you expect to happen this year. If you think that there are 13 current QBs, and 68 NFL players better than Lamar Jackson, I’m going to respectfully bow out of this conversation right now. I think that’s completely absurd and do not feel a need to discuss that further. This is exactly what @RobbRiddick was just saying. Efficiency doesn't mean good play it just means good stats and more than not Lamar game play is less than spectacular. Again if he's such a great QB why did he have a losing record with those amazing stats you point out? Did I say he was the 14th best QB in the league? Based on some of the stats I pointed out he was in 2025. Put 2025 in a vacuum only and not looking at names or history. Would you want your starting QB to only play 13 games? Win you 6 of those games and be credited to pulling 1 win in the 4th quarter? I know I wouldn't. 1 Quote
Kirby Jackson Posted September 3 Posted September 3 (edited) 37 minutes ago, The Jokeman said: Efficiency doesn't mean good play it just means good stats and more than not Lamar game play is less than spectacular. Again if he's such a great QB why did he have a losing record with those amazing stats you point out? Did I say he was the 14th best QB in the league? Based on some of the stats I pointed out he was in 2025. Put 2025 in a vacuum only and not looking at names or history. Would you want your starting QB to only play 13 games? Win you 6 of those games and be credited to pulling 1 win in the 4th quarter? I know I wouldn't. Lol, that’s what you responded to. I said if you want to be outraged, that’s a place to be outraged. He’s 10 spots below Bo Nix and QB 14. You either agree with me that that is absurd or you think he’s properly rated. Otherwise I’m not sure what you’re taking issue with? That was my ONLY point(s). He is better than 69 and better than QB14. Edited September 3 by Kirby Jackson Quote
Mr. WEO Posted September 3 Posted September 3 Garret over Josh at #1 is just crazy. Since he's been in Cleveland, their D has been 31, 21, 20, 21, 13, 20, 13, 27, 14 in most points allowed---no better than the 8 years before he arrived. Sure, puts up big numbers (predominantly in the AFCN) but Is he a game changer? Not for the Browns: they've won 6.5 games per season and had only 2 winning seasons in 9---the team only got better when they got better at QB. No GM, they had to choose between the 2, is taking Garrett. 1 Quote
The Jokeman Posted September 4 Posted September 4 3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: Lol, that’s what you responded to. I said if you want to be outraged, that’s a place to be outraged. He’s 10 spots below Bo Nix and QB 14. You either agree with me that that is absurd or you think he’s properly rated. Otherwise I’m not sure what you’re taking issue with? That was my ONLY point(s). He is better than 69 and better than QB14. For his career yes, but not on his play last season. Quote
Kirby Jackson Posted September 4 Posted September 4 15 minutes ago, The Jokeman said: For his career yes, but not on his play last season. It is based on 2026 not 2025. That’s why I took issue with it. The pendulum swung too far. Lamar went from a little overrated to obnoxiously underrated. He’s not the best QB in the league. He never was but he’s always a top 3 or 4 (at worst). He’s not worse than Lawrence, Hurts, Nix etc…though. That was the biggest miss on the list. Quote
The Jokeman Posted September 4 Posted September 4 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: It is based on 2026 not 2025. That’s why I took issue with it. The pendulum swung too far. Lamar went from a little overrated to obnoxiously underrated. He’s not the best QB in the league. He never was but he’s always a top 3 or 4 (at worst). He’s not worse than Lawrence, Hurts, Nix etc…though. That was the biggest miss on the list. BS it's not based on 2025 as how else does Garrett got the top spot after breaking the sack record. Lamar is a good QB, I've compared him to Steve Young. Good but not good enough that he alone will never get you a ring. I mean you put him in Philly when they had Barkley almost breaking NFL records and AJ Brown and their defense he probably gets a ring. Put him in Seattle last year he likely gets a ring. My biggest issue is he crumbles when the stage is there for him to shine. That playoff game we saw against us a few years back, his box score was impressive but his on the field play had a lot to be desired. My biggest gripe is people laud him as this great QB when I see him pedestrian. I don't see how he makes players around him better. That is the mark of great QBs imo. His ability to run yes sets him a part but at the end of the day a QB has to pass to win and well not sure Lamar always pull through there. Edited September 4 by The Jokeman Quote
dave mcbride Posted September 4 Posted September 4 (edited) 4 hours ago, Sojourner said: Well obviously… but we are talking about a guy that was routinely doubled on a team that barely had a lead. The guy not only set a new record but had 50% or > of the sack totals 23 teams had (only 9 were above 46 sacks). He was 3 sacks less than the entire Jets team who weren’t far off Cleveland’s standards in terms of having a lead. And had 3 sacks more than the whole of the 49ers defense. Is Josh the better player? Absolutely. Are those trade scenarios accurate? Most definitely. But giving it to him over Josh for last season isn’t totally outlandish. The only other guys to top that list who were defenders have been JJ Watt and Aaron Donald. Myles’ season was just as dominant as theirs. Again, is Josh the best player in the league and deserves of the top spot? I would say yes and certainly wouldn’t be advocating Garrett is there instead of #2. I just understand and have no problem with the totality of situations Myles worked with that led him to top that list. Totally concur with this post dude. Well said. Well said. Also, people in this thread criticizing the ranking are conflating “best” and “most valuable.” They are not the same thing. Allen is of course far, far more valuable than Garrett. Garrett is also significantly less valuable to his current team’s success than his own QB, Matthew Stafford. In an honest poll that focused on the most valuable players, the top dozen or so would be QBs, and it wouldn’t be arguable. But that’s just boring. Edited September 4 by dave mcbride 1 Quote
Kirby Jackson Posted September 4 Posted September 4 10 hours ago, The Jokeman said: BS it's not based on 2025 as how else does Garrett got the top spot after breaking the sack record. Lamar is a good QB, I've compared him to Steve Young. Good but not good enough that he alone will never get you a ring. I mean you put him in Philly when they had Barkley almost breaking NFL records and AJ Brown and their defense he probably gets a ring. Put him in Seattle last year he likely gets a ring. My biggest issue is he crumbles when the stage is there for him to shine. That playoff game we saw against us a few years back, his box score was impressive but his on the field play had a lot to be desired. My biggest gripe is people laud him as this great QB when I see him pedestrian. I don't see how he makes players around him better. That is the mark of great QBs imo. His ability to run yes sets him a part but at the end of the day a QB has to pass to win and well not sure Lamar always pull through there. The list isn’t, “here are the guys that played best in 2025.” The list is, “here are the guys that I expect to play best in 2026.” Obviously last year plays a role in how you see things moving forward but the entire purpose of the list is, “this is what I expect throughout the upcoming season.” Two simple questions that only require a yes or no answer: 1) Do you believe that there are 68 NFL players better than Lamar Jackson? 2) Do you believe that there are 13 QBs currently better than Lamar Jackson? Quote
The Jokeman Posted September 4 Posted September 4 18 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: The list isn’t, “here are the guys that played best in 2025.” The list is, “here are the guys that I expect to play best in 2026.” Obviously last year plays a role in how you see things moving forward but the entire purpose of the list is, “this is what I expect throughout the upcoming season.” Two simple questions that only require a yes or no answer: 1) Do you believe that there are 68 NFL players better than Lamar Jackson? 2) Do you believe that there are 13 QBs currently better than Lamar Jackson? 1)No and 2)No yet again I think the best players of 2026 vote more a reflection of what have you done for me lately (aka 2025) than what I expect you to do in 2026. I imagine that's how most guys voted based on the results. 1 Quote
Kirby Jackson Posted September 4 Posted September 4 1 minute ago, The Jokeman said: 1)No and 2)No yet again I think the best players of 2026 vote more a reflection of what have you done for me lately (aka 2025) than what I expect you to do in 2026. I imagine that's how most guys voted based on the results. Sounds like we agree then. The entire point was the answer to those 2 questions is clearly no. I probably would have had him in the 20’s somewhere and QB 5 for this year (Josh, Mahomes, Burrow, Stafford and then Lamar I think). I also agree that they vote on 2025. I think that that actually vote for the next year in November or something (at least it used to be like that). It is also a very small group of players that actually vote. If you have a bunch of Steelers or Bengals (for example) you may have a bias against Lamar. The same for any player depending on who is voting. The whole system is flawed and not to be taken too seriously. Quote
folz Posted September 4 Posted September 4 I don't really have a problem with Garrett at #1 over Josh. Have a big season (23 sacks) and you get your recognition. And no question that Garrett will rank/go down as one of the best pass rushers of all time when his career is all said and done. The only push back I have with Garrett (and it doesn't really pertain to this year's list/ranking), is tackles. When someone says that he is the greatest player of all time or the best defensive end of all time (as one guy said recently), I think you have to compare more than just sacks. For instance: Garrett (2025): 23 sacks (wow)---60 Tackles Bruce's best sack season (1990): 19 sacks---101 tackles Are 4 more sacks more important than 41 more tackles? Or take this comparison: Player Tackles/game Reggie White 4.87 Bruce Smith 4.58 Strahan 4.16 Garrett 3.14 And of course, Garrett is still in his prime, while the numbers for the other guys include the years at the end of their careers where they were winding down, not what they used to be. So, the gap during their prime is even a bit higher (except for Strahan). Garrett has started 131 games. So, here are the tackle totals for each player after their first 131 starts in the league (for a fair comparison): Player Starts Total Tackles Average/Gm Garrett 131 412 3.14 White 131 849 6.48 Smith 131 717 5.47 Strahan 131 518 3.95 This is not to knock Myles as a player, just to keep in perspective that while he is a generational/all-time talent, he is not the GOAT at DE, imo. 1 Quote
Scott7975 Posted September 4 Posted September 4 (edited) Nick Wright is having his typical flip out about this. As is Brou(Lamar homer) and Wildes(Maye homer) on his crew. Nick spent that last couple years saying Josh was the second best player in the NFL but when it happens, he cannot stand that he was put above his precious Mahomes. Edited September 4 by Scott7975 Quote
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