A Peak Offseason Thread: Looking back at the JP Losman era

[C.Biscuit97]

6 minutes ago, MPL said:

I remember being very excited for Madden 07 to come out, thinking that surely JP Losman would have a significantly approved overall rating and the Bills would finally be a useable team again. 

I won multiple SBs with those Bills teams!!! Even traded JP after my second one for a bigger haul than the Garrett package and won multiple with Trent!

[MPL]

7 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

16 minutes ago, MPL said:

I remember being very excited for Madden 07 to come out, thinking that surely JP Losman would have a significantly approved overall rating and the Bills would finally be a useable team again. 

I won multiple SBs with those Bills teams!!! Even traded JP after my second one for a bigger haul than the Garrett package and won multiple with Trent!

Oh man, I thought Trent was the real deal for about a year. 

[T master]

JP had one really good season & I thought he was "The Guy" when he was drafted but as usual the Bills at that point & time didn't have a clue of how to develop a QB & the fact that Ralph always fired coaches after a couple or 3 seasons didn't help .

 

I feel 2 QB's that the Bills drafted in the first that could have been much better given better QB coaching were JP & EJ ! Both were mobile QB's had above average arms but both had the same demise terrible HC's that didn't know their way around developing players .

 

That's one thing the Bills got in spades when they hired McD & Beane this team now knows how to develop players with good traits to become better players in the NFL ...

[DapperCam]

22 hours ago, corta765 said:

JP is an interesting case because he is probably the one drought drafted QB there is a universe he may have been a real starter for a while. John Clayton once even said similar that Losman probably deserved a better fate.... BUT circumstance and org matter sooo much when growing guys.

 

When they drafted JP I felt it was a bit overkill just simply because we still had Bledsoe, they were trying to get back into the playoffs/maybe division so to me wasting a 1st when we needed more help seemed like bad resource management (lol). Additionally that draft the big 3 were Eli/Rivers/Ben so if you were going QB you were going with one of them, JP was not in that realm by comparison. Buffalo absolutely panicked when Big Ben went to PIT so the pick in itself was forced. The original coach that even picked him was gone by his 2nd true year. Overall though the infrastructure across the board sucked for JP if I am going to defend him from coach to GM to the players on the roster. 2006 he had a pretty solid 2nd year finishing 13th in passing yds, 15th ypa, 11th in TD passes, and 16th for QB rating which at that time carried more weight. The NFL had not yet fully transitioned into the QB passing behemoth it is today and those numbers were decent for that time especially a year 2 QB. But 2007 he never took the next step, the roster was not good enough, the Pats hit max dominance, etc.. that was that. Even though they actually had a solid look at the playoffs at 7-6 going to CLE in December it was over for him by that point.

 

So to me if I am weighing the whose at fault scales for his lack of development:

 

JP 60%

Bills 40%

 

It is always on the player first to make the most of a chance and he clearly didn't. BUT as we saw with Josh's development it is also on the organization to truly setup an environment for the player to have the chance to grow as best as possible. From 2005 until honestly the 2013 season when we had Woods, Stevie, Goodwin, Fred, Spiller etc.. the Bills offense was just lackluster across the board from O-line to skill position. Lee Evans was the outlier he never had a good WR3 let alone WR2 minus the TO that one year. I am honestly convinced even if Big Ben came here he would've failed. The defense was bend not break win or lose by 3, he wasn't getting that Steelers monster on defense that could win games with ease. The organization just didn't have enough across the board and it showed up in spades when trying to develop the most important spot.

Just look at Sam Darnold at NYJets compared to his time with the Seahawks or Vikings. Or Baker at the Panthers compared to anywhere else he’s played.

 

The environment definitely matters a lot. Losman could have been Goff-like in my opinion (that would be his absolute ceiling). Not a star in the league, but a passable starter.

[corta765]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Part of the problem is they were never outright terrible. Nothing helps a rebuild like top 5 picks. Dareus had hall of fame talent and was part of one of the Bills defenses in my lifetime but had issues that prevented that. Also, we apparently wanted Cam but won a stupid game.

That was a big ownership issue. Ralph bless his heart, but excelled at wanting the team to be good enough that the fans came and the stadium was full. The idea of just tanking outright and saying were going to have a really bad year didn't exist. AND they didn't have a GM savy enough to do what Beane did and navigate up the draft for a QB. Again their was no true vision after Donahoe until Whaley came in. It was a lot of mini rebuilds/retools and bandaids over stuff. Heck even the way they would just recycle through draft picks rather then add to what they had. Winfield was replaced by Clements who was replaced my McKelvin who eventually was replaced by Gilmore lol Paul Poz at LB while I didn't hold the highest opinion of was someone you should've kept to build with. They constantly on defense had 60% filled with talent and then created another hole because they were too stupid to not create a new one and pay a guy. I am rambling so I will stop now lol

58 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

Just look at Sam Darnold at NYJets compared to his time with the Seahawks or Vikings. Or Baker at the Panthers compared to anywhere else he’s played.

The funniest thing to me is there is a generation of Bills fans who only know Josh wrecking teams 24/7 and don't know that Darnold year 1 probably was better then Josh heading into year 2 by a little and that first game in 2019 was suchhh a demarcation game between the two teams. It is funny now as the Jets stink even worse but Bills Jets week 1 2019 was billed as which up and coming team what take the next step. Still one of my favorite Josh/Bills moments that 4th quarter.

[Lost]

The one thing that was consistent about JP and the rest of the drought era QBs.   They were absolute ass during prime time or any time the game really mattered. 

[SoTier]

7 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Look at Jauron’s (RIP) roster and QBs. Him getting those teams to 7 wins was amazing coaches. His beats teams sucked too. An insane hot take: Jauron with Allen and the Bills roster of the last years makes a SB!!!

 

 The Bills rosters were crap during Jauron's tenure because Jauron didn't want players, especially on offense, who wanted to win enough to take chances.  That was JP Losman and Ryan Fitzpatrick.  The only reason that the Bills would have drafted Allen during Jauron's tenure was to put butts in the seats.  It would have been like the signing of Terrell Owens, which convinced gullible Bills fans that all Trent Edwards needed to become a "great QB" was a great WR.  The Bills sold 60k season tickets the year they signed Owens, including the pair that I gave up because Ralph Wilson gave Jauron an extension for 2009 despite the Bills going 2-7 in the last 9 games of 2008.

 

Allen would have never seen the field under Jauron, and he certainly wouldn't have had a chance to develop into a decent QB unless he went to another team.