Josh's off-season improvement goal: deep ball accuracy

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

5 minutes ago, SoMAn said:

Perhaps he needs a caddy to help him judge distance. A QB caddy. Could be a new trend in the NFL. 🙃

Some teams DO  have them.  They're dressed in black and white stripes. 🤨

[Not at the table Karlos]

11 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

And WRs who would actually get deep and be open

They get open deep a lot. Josh misses them. 

[Jauronimo]

I think there are certain deep passes he throws far better than others. A deep post or corner he throws effectively. The deep vertical routes he has struggled with consistency.  

[Not at the table Karlos]

2 hours ago, BillMafia716ix said:

Josh sucks throwing the deep ball which is surprising given his arm strength. Josh under threw that deep ball to Cooks vs. Denver. A better ball, Cooks catches it in stride and we’re playing for chance to get to the Super Bowl. 

Deep balls(there’s different kinds of deep balls, I’m talking about 9s) aren’t really about arm strength. QBs with weak arms still throw deep balls. If anything I think Allen’s arm strength is why he’s not good at them. He throws them too hard and low and they’re very difficult to adjust to even if they’re accurate if they’re not they sail over the receivers head.
 

The way he throws them are good for posts or routes where the receiver has a shoulder pointed at the LOS. Deep balls should be a rainbow that the receiver can easily track and run under. 
 

 

5 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I think there are certain deep passes he throws far better than others. A deep post or corner he throws effectively. The deep vertical routes he has struggled with consistency.  

This is accurate

[finn]

1 hour ago, UConn James said:

Bingo. Outside of a few to Foster, I can't remember many that connected. Some more recently (Ray Davis vs the Jets... 2 years ago now?) were more akin to throwing it downfield and praying.

 

Kinda aggravating to have the guy who can throw it a mile but not have it be in the right spot / radius for the receiver. Josh has never really been able to throw guys open or lead them by throwing where a guy is going to be -- in his stride -- and not having to slow up. At least not akin to how Brady would to Moss / Welker / Edelman. Not that we have exactly had WRs of that class. After the MVP, McBeane the last two years at WR was kinda hoping Josh could make chicken 💩 into chicken salad like Brady could with nobody WRs while they spent most resources on D. But no, Josh is not that kind of QB. He cannot elevate other guys' play like some kind of magician. He needs WRs with skill, and they had not provided that. We'll see what Moore and Bell can bring.
 

The last regulation time pass to Knox in the Denver playoff wasn't quuuuite a "deep" ball but it absolutely sailed and was rooted in the same issue.

 

Spatial awareness issue, a 'touch' thing, ?? He's gotta figure this out. 

 

 

How about the deep ball to Gabe Davis at the end of the Jets game in 2022? Allen had just hurt his elbow, and on one of the very next plays he threw a dime 60 yards in the air to hit Davis right in the chest fully in stride--and Davis dropped it. If he had caught it, the pass might have gone down as one of the clutch, accurate, and beautiful passes in Bills history. Yet you don't remember it, and you're not alone. I realize you can find amazing passes thrown by pretty much any quarterback, but I think of this one whenever someone claims Allen "sucks" at the deep ball and can't hit a receiver in stride. 

 

In his entire career, Allen has had just one elite receiver, and that guy routinely disappeared in the playoffs. Until Allen has at least one again, we all need to temper our criticism of him. He IS the Bills. Everyone else, including Cook, is merely complementary. Allen carries the team by himself, and we criticize how he does it. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

2 hours ago, UConn James said:

Bingo. Outside of a few to Foster...

ROBERT FOSTER!!!

The Chosen One!!!

*
He has been mentioned!  It is a holy day of obligation.

  Roll Tide!

[Gregg]

Happy Birthday Josh Allen. Born 5/21/96. Our QB is officially in his thirties hitting the big 30 today.

[BullBuchanan]

12 hours ago, ganesh said:

If we saw anything in Denver, it still remain on how to reduce turnover.  4 turnovers in divisional playoff game is not going to get you to the big dance.  

One of those "turnovers" is a direct result of deep ball accuracy.

[PoundingDog]

9 minutes ago, Brand J said:

That deep ball to Gabe Davis in the playoffs against the Chiefs, the 74 yard pass or whatever it was, was the prettiest deep ball I’ve ever seen him throw. I liked it more than the one to Foster. Just perfect touch and placement, I was wondering why it couldn’t be like that at least half the time.

The one to Davis is great but not perfect. A perfect throw would be in front of Davis and he would not have to slow down and reach back to get the ball. I never saw Allen throw those rainbow deep balls Tua or Wilson are known to throw. Those guys don't have Allen's arm so they have to throw the deep passes with high ARC. But when it is done right, much easier for the receiver to catch (without breaking the stride) and harder for the trailing defender to break the pass.  

 

[T master]

13 hours ago, PoundingDog said:

After 2023 season, Josh's goal was to reduce turnovers. After 2024, he said he wanted to improve pre-snap reading. After 2025, he said he wants to improve his deep  ball accuracy, specifically mechinical issues. I thought Eric's point of having to have the real guys to practice may not be valid. To me, it's all about projecting where the ball needs to be at what time, and you can practice it without anybody running the route, with different arcs of the ball (Tua came to mind). Maybe the issue is Josh not able to project the location the ball needs to land with different guys running the deep route?   

 

A couple of other notes.

• You can really feel for him when he said he "hated" not being able to celebrate the 1st Xmas with his daughter.
• I noticed when Eric asked Josh about what kind of liquor he's drinking. For the first time I'm hearing the answer that I want to hear: a lot of water. For him to have that longitivity I'm hoping for, look no further than Tom Brady, and keep alcohol to a minimum.
• Allen is well tapped to the wind considtions in the new stadium. Unfortunately it probably helps opponents more than the Bills in that regard.
• Allen is fully aware he hasn't played well in Houston. You can bet he may start watching some Texans films well before the season openner.

 

 

That was cool but one thing I took away from it is that every time Josh talked about being a dad his face is just full of smiles & you can tell his heart is filled with love for his baby girl & his wife which is awesome to see !! 

 

He's such a great guy I'm so glad he's a Buffalo Bill in every way !!

Edited May 21 by T master

[SoonerBillsFan]

58 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

They get open deep a lot. Josh misses them. 

Exactly. Deep ball accuracy improvement is a must.  He and the coaching staff saw that Maye was tossing g deep balls with great accuracy.  This " you cant throw deep  against cover 2 shell" isnt an absolute

 

Allen must get better at it and taking his drops and getting the ball out on time.

23 minutes ago, PoundingDog said:

The one to Davis is great but not perfect. A perfect throw would be in front of Davis and he would not have to slow down and reach back to get the ball. I never saw Allen throw those rainbow deep balls Tua or Wilson are known to throw. Those guys don't have Allen's arm so they have to throw the deep passes with high ARC. But when it is done right, much easier for the receiver to catch (without breaking the stride) and harder for the trailing defender to break the pass.  

 

Yep.  Allen needs more arc on the deep ball. To do this he has to bring his hand over the top more on the deep balls.  The 3/4 angle on all the rest are fine.

[Never NEVER Give-up]

4 hours ago, SunDSolar said:

 

Nah McD just kept spotting the other team 32+ points 

I am so interested/excited to see how the new Defense can improve on the 21.5 ppg allowed during the season and the 24.8 allowed in the playoffs and 32.8 allowed in playoff losses under McD.

[Sierra Foothills]

I

1 hour ago, finn said:

n his entire career, Allen has had just one elite receiver, and that guy routinely disappeared in the playoffs. Until Allen has at least one again, we all need to temper our criticism of him. He IS the Bills. Everyone else, including Cook, is merely complementary. Allen carries the team by himself, and we criticize how he does it. 

 

And Diggs wasn't really an elite deep ball receiver... in fact Josh has never played with one.

 

[BillsShredder83]

2 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Deep balls(there’s different kinds of deep balls, I’m talking about 9s) aren’t really about arm strength. QBs with weak arms still throw deep balls. If anything I think Allen’s arm strength is why he’s not good at them. He throws them too hard and low and they’re very difficult to adjust to even if they’re accurate if they’re not they sail over the receivers head.
 

The way he throws them are good for posts or routes where the receiver has a shoulder pointed at the LOS. Deep balls should be a rainbow that the receiver can easily track and run under. 
 

 

This is accurate

Kinda crazy, but would like to see Josh workout with Tua for a weekend or something, exactly for this reason.  Or at least pour over his film with his QB Coach

[PoundingDog]

4 hours ago, finn said:

In his entire career, Allen has had just one elite receiver, and that guy routinely disappeared in the playoffs. Until Allen has at least one again, we all need to temper our criticism of him. He IS the Bills. Everyone else, including Cook, is merely complementary. Allen carries the team by himself, and we criticize how he does it. 

The days of Kelly had Andre Reed and James Lofton (in their prime) in a superbowl are likely gone in modern NFL with the salaries to QB and top WRs. When you go to the playoffs, the teams and coaching are good in general. And most likely they will scheme to take out your top weapon. This is where a top QB is so important because he is likely to elevate the plays of the 2nd tier weapons on the team. That's why we see some unexpected heros in those superbowl games. 

[First Round Bust]

7 hours ago, BillMafia716ix said:

Josh sucks throwing the deep ball which is surprising given his arm strength. Josh under threw that deep ball to Cooks vs. Denver. A better ball, Cooks catches it in stride and we’re playing for chance to get to the Super Bowl. 

Yes the long toss is a Josh weakness.. the deep ball requires some arch-air-touch to it which Josh has not mastered, compare to CJ Stroud who has done a good job with lobbing those high, long arches over the past 2 years.

Over the years it has not been emphasized due to WR speed-separation issues as well as protecting Josh from getting hit due to the extra time it would take in the pocket.

Additional improvement is accuracy when throwing to the left of his body esp when moving,  So his bailing and running left then making a rushed split-second decision to throw, which no footwork mechanics can really support other than maybe the reps of developing muscle memory.

[Augie]

4 hours ago, Gregg said:

Happy Birthday Josh Allen. Born 5/21/96. Our QB is officially in his thirties hitting the big 30 today.

 

Ugh, the dreaded wrong side of 30. Should we trade him now while we can still get something for him??? 

[NewEra]

4 hours ago, finn said:

How about the deep ball to Gabe Davis at the end of the Jets game in 2022? Allen had just hurt his elbow, and on one of the very next plays he threw a dime 60 yards in the air to hit Davis right in the chest fully in stride--and Davis dropped it. If he had caught it, the pass might have gone down as one of the clutch, accurate, and beautiful passes in Bills history. Yet you don't remember it, and you're not alone. I realize you can find amazing passes thrown by pretty much any quarterback, but I think of this one whenever someone claims Allen "sucks" at the deep ball and can't hit a receiver in stride. 

 

In his entire career, Allen has had just one elite receiver, and that guy routinely disappeared in the playoffs. Until Allen has at least one again, we all need to temper our criticism of him. He IS the Bills. Everyone else, including Cook, is merely complementary. Allen carries the team by himself, and we criticize how he does it. 

All of this is correct. It’s also correct that he is not consistent enough on throwing accurate deep passes on streaks.  He knows it. He’s said it.  
 

It’s a weaker point for him (as great as he is) and pointing this out isn’t “criticizing” him.  The thread is about what HE, himself, said.  He knows he needs to improve on that part of his game.

 

While there are a handful of annoying facets of this board, the one I find most annoying is the how sensitive people are for pointing out Josh Allen’s faults.  He has faults.  He’s not perfect.  It’s ok to discuss them.  It’s ok to admit them.  Josh does both.  

4 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

One of those "turnovers" is a direct result of deep ball accuracy.

As was going to overtime.  2 chances on the final drive in regulation (cooks and Knox).  He missed both.  

Edited May 21 by NewEra

[Fan in Chicago]

28 minutes ago, NewEra said:

It’s a weaker point for him (as great as he is) and pointing this out isn’t “criticizing” him.  The thread is about what HE, himself, said.  He knows he needs to improve on that part of his game.

 

While there are a handful of annoying facets of this board, the one I find most annoying is the how sensitive people are for pointing out Josh Allen’s faults.  He has faults.  He’s not perfect.  It’s ok to discuss them.  It’s ok to admit them.  Josh does both.  

As was going to overtime.  2 chances on the final drive in regulation (cooks and Knox).  He missed both.  

Allen has not consistently had a good deep ball catcher. In the couple of seasons that he had John Brown and Sanders, memory tells me he hit a fair number of those deep balls. But his WR and TEs have basically been good in the short and medium game. His ability to finesse that skill has been due to lack of opportuities. Coupled with the fact that such WRs have not been on the field for the past two years (Palmer and Cooks have been in game for very short periods), how is he to show off his skills? It does take two to tango.

 

Pointing this out is not being sensitive about criticisms against him. He has rightfully taken heat for turnovers and the unwillingness early in his career to take the checkdown. But recognizing that there are other mitigating factors is a balanced take. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

17 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I've always thought Josh's deep ball placement was bad. He had one season early in his car where he would have success with John Brown. A few nice ones to Robert Foster. 

 

My dream WR for Josh, like many, has been one of those 4.2 40 type guys. Just let him fling it as far as possible and let a speedy WR run under it. I know, sounds way less complicated than it is. 

 

He's always had more of a trajectory issue.  It doesn't need to be a mile high but it has often been thrown too hard with lower trajectory.