Is run defense really the problem behind no super bowl with Josh?

[frostbitmic]

31 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

We didnt lose to the Colts....

 

They do but by rushing 4. Philly didn't blitz in the 2024 Superbowl until the game was over. MacDonald did blitz a bit more this past year but a lot of their sacks came on 4 man pressures.

AI is worthless ...

 

Buffalo Bills' Last 5 Playoff Losses

2024 Playoffs (Jan 19, 2025): Divisional Round vs. Kansas City Chiefs (L, 29-32).

2023 Playoffs (Jan 21, 2024): Divisional Round vs. Kansas City Chiefs (L, 24-27).

2022 Playoffs (Jan 22, 2023): Divisional Round vs. Cincinnati Bengals (L, 10-27).

2021 Playoffs (Jan 23, 2022): Divisional Round vs. Kansas City Chiefs (L, 36-42 in OT).

2020 Playoffs (Jan 9, 2021): Wild Card vs. Indianapolis Colts (L, 10-27). 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

AI is worthless ...

 

Buffalo Bills' Last 5 Playoff Losses

2024 Playoffs (Jan 19, 2025): Divisional Round vs. Kansas City Chiefs (L, 29-32).

2023 Playoffs (Jan 21, 2024): Divisional Round vs. Kansas City Chiefs (L, 24-27).

2022 Playoffs (Jan 22, 2023): Divisional Round vs. Cincinnati Bengals (L, 10-27).

2021 Playoffs (Jan 23, 2022): Divisional Round vs. Kansas City Chiefs (L, 36-42 in OT).

2020 Playoffs (Jan 9, 2021): Wild Card vs. Indianapolis Colts (L, 10-27). 

 

In 2020 we lost the AFCCG to the Chiefs. Think it was 38-24. We beat the Colts and the Ravens.

 

Also 2024 was the AFCCG - right score, wrong round.

Edited April 29 by GunnerBill

[Thrivefourfive]

Everything’s been a problem in the losses. Literally. The Bills play the whole game only to look like they have 9 players on the field and they’ve completely forgotten how to do anything on defense on that final, decisive possession. Broncos 2025 season, Chiefs 2024, Chiefs 2023, Chiefs 2022. In every one of those losses, the opponent had the ball last and put the game away. 

[billsfan714]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

In 2020 we lost the AFCCG to the Chiefs. Think it was 38-24. We beat the Colts and the Ravens.

Amen, since the 2021 playoffs we have given up a total of 199 points total in our last game each playoff year.  Divided by 6 thats an average of over 33 points a game.  Josh please out do this and score on your final possession isnt a strategy, its a recipe for elimination.   Fix the D.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, billsfan714 said:

Amen, since the 2021 playoffs we have given up a total of 199 points total in our last game each playoff year.  Divided by 6 thats an average of over 33 points a game.  Josh please out do this and score on your final possession isnt a strategy, its a recipe for elimination.   Fix the D.

 

While all that is true, when you have a superstar at QB having the ball with the chance to win at the end 3 times in 3 years and going 0 fer is not good enough. And the Bills absolutely have to look at why that has been the case. 

[JerseyBills]

It's not a great strength but pass defense has killed us pretty much every year in January, it's like he gets the yips in the playoffs

[BillsFan130]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

While all that is true, when you have a superstar at QB having the ball with the chance to win at the end 3 times in 3 years and going 0 fer is not good enough. And the Bills absolutely have to look at why that has been the case. 

Missed field goal in 2023 against KC, drop by Kincaid in 2024 on an unreal play by Josh , and a "drop" by Cooks in 2025. (that was a catch)

 

Some bad luck, some bad execution by Bass and Kincaid .

I really don't think it's a concern at all on offence in totality . One drop, one missed kick, and one bad call by the refs . 

If they couldn't move the ball at all, then that would be concerning IMO

Edited April 29 by BillsFan130

[stuvian]

no defensive playmakers in the Beane era

[Buffalo Junction]

Just now, BillsFan130 said:

Missed field goal in 2023 against KC, drop by Kincaid in 2024 on an unreal play by Josh , and a "drop" by Cooks in 2025. (that was a catch)

 

Some bad luck, some bad execution by Bass and Kincaid .

I really don't think it's a concern at all on offence in totality . One drop, one missed kick, and one bad call by the refs 

The Kincaid one can be called a drop. If we’re honest that was more of a missed legend opportunity that occurred due to failed protection calls. That said, it was a gotta have it moment that didn’t happen 

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, billsfan714 said:

Amen, since the 2021 playoffs we have given up a total of 199 points total in our last game each playoff year.  Divided by 6 thats an average of over 33 points a game.  Josh please out do this and score on your final possession isnt a strategy, its a recipe for elimination.   Fix the D.

It's hopeless arguing this point

 

Our offense can drop 30 on an elite defense like the Broncos while their mediocre offense scores 33 on us and the same people will be parroting 'we need to score more' as if averaging 33+ in the playoffs is some reasonable request

 

 

[BillsFan130]

Just now, Buffalo Junction said:

The Kincaid one can be called a drop. If we’re honest that was more of a missed legend opportunity that occurred due to failed protection calls. That said, it was a gotta have it moment that didn’t happen 

Ya I think both things can be true. Kincaid should of had it, and Spags dialed up a great blitz that messed up our protection scheme

[billsfan714]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

While all that is true, when you have a superstar at QB having the ball with the chance to win at the end 3 times in 3 years and going 0 fer is not good enough. And the Bills absolutely have to look at why that has been the case. 

Meanwhile Drake Maye got to the bowl scoring 16, 21 and 10 points on offense in the AFC playoffs.  Darnold won the bowl throwing for 50 percent and just over 200 yards and  1 Td.  We grade the offense on an organic chemistry final and hope the defense can pass a basic math test.

Edited April 29 by billsfan714

[Buffalo Junction]

4 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Ya I think both things can be true. Kincaid should of had it, and Spags dialed up a great blitz that messed up our protection scheme

Absolutely. It certainly wasn’t uncatchable. There was just a level of difficulty to it where if it had been made with a Bills win we’d be viewing it like the Tyree catch. The Diggs miss was much more frustrating to me 

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Missed field goal in 2023 against KC, drop by Kincaid in 2024 on an unreal play by Josh , and a "drop" by Cooks in 2025. (that was a catch)

 

Some bad luck, some bad execution by Bass and Kincaid .

I really don't think it's a concern at all on offence in totality . One drop, one missed kick, and one bad call by the refs . 

If they couldn't move the ball at all, then that would be concerning IMO

 

That over simplifies it. The missed kick from Bass comes after a stall out. The dropped pass from Kincaid came on a 4th desperation heave and the bad call from the refs also came when they'd missed other opportunities. 

 

Add to that Baltimore last year and Jax this year where both times with the offense inside the 10 and a chance to put the game away at two scores up they stalled out and kicked a FG. 

 

The offense has serious issues in those crunch moments in the post season. It just hasn't executed those moments well enough.

10 minutes ago, billsfan714 said:

Meanwhile Drake Maye got to the bowl scoring 16, 21 and 10 points on offense in the AFC playoffs.  Darnold won the bowl throwing for 50 percent and just over 200 yards and  1 Td.  We grade the offense on an organic chemistry final and hope the defense can pass a basic math test.

 

That isn't true. It is obviously the defense that has been the bigger reason for failure. But if you asked every Bills fan right now, okay playoff game on the line, 4 minutes to go, ball in Josh's hands, touchdown wins the game - are you signing for it? We all would. And rightly so. And 3 years in a row it hasn't got done. That isn't nothing.

[BillsFan130]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That over simplifies it. The missed kick from Bass comes after a stall out. The dropped pass from Kincaid came on a 4th desperation heave and the bad call from the refs also came when they'd missed other opportunities. 

 

Add to that Baltimore last year and Jax this year where both times with the offense inside the 10 and a chance to put the game away at two scores up they stalled out and kicked a FG. 

 

The offense has serious issues in those crunch moments in the post season. It just hasn't executed those moments well enough.

 

That isn't true. It is obviously the defense that has been the bigger reason for failure. But if you asked every Bills fan right now, okay playoff game on the line, 4 minutes to go, ball in Josh's hands, touchdown wins the game - are you signing for it? We all would. And rightly so. And 3 years in a row it hasn't got done. That isn't nothing.

I don't think it oversimplifies it at all. The Denver game, offence had to get a FG just to tie it in regulation. I'm not sure what other missed opportunities you're talking about in crunch time as the next drive was the cooks "drop".

 

Baltimore playoff game? They went on like a what, 6-7 minute FG drive to go up 8? lol. Not sure how that's deemed a failure.

 

And what do you mean the JAX game? They literally got a game winning TD drive on their last possession to take the 27-24 lead

Edited April 29 by BillsFan130

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That over simplifies it. The missed kick from Bass comes after a stall out. The dropped pass from Kincaid came on a 4th desperation heave and the bad call from the refs also came when they'd missed other opportunities. 

 

Add to that Baltimore last year and Jax this year where both times with the offense inside the 10 and a chance to put the game away at two scores up they stalled out and kicked a FG. 

 

The offense has serious issues in those crunch moments in the post season. It just hasn't executed those moments well enough.

 

That isn't true. It is obviously the defense that has been the bigger reason for failure. But if you asked every Bills fan right now, okay playoff game on the line, 4 minutes to go, ball in Josh's hands, touchdown wins the game - are you signing for it? We all would. And rightly so. And 3 years in a row it hasn't got done. That isn't nothing.

What you're asking for is the offense to score an avg of 32+ppg to win this set of games you reference and I'm not sure you realize how ridiculous that is. The Chiefs offense over the course of their 3 SB runs didn't average that.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, BillsFan130 said:

I don't think it oversimplifies it at all. The Denver game, offence had to get a FG just to tie it in regulation. I'm not sure what other missed opportunities you're talking about in crunch time as the next drive was the cooks "drop".

 

Baltimore playoff game? They went on like a what, 6-7 minute drive to go up 8? lol. Not sure how that's deemed a failure.

 

And what do you mean the JAX game? They literally got a game winning TD drive on their last possession to take the 27-24 lead

 

Sorry you are right on the Jags game. Don't know how I'd misremembered that. But the Cooks play wasn't the only play of the drive vs Denver. 

 

The fact is other than 1 every Superbowl winner going back ovet 10 years has had to win at least one game that went down to the final 4 minutes on route. And the last three years the Bills haven't been good in those situations on either side of the ball. 

 

The defense has to get better in the playoffs - period. But the offense has to make some of those plays at the end too.

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

What you're asking for is the offense to score an avg of 32+ppg to win this set of games you reference and I'm not sure you realize how ridiculous that is. The Chiefs offense over the course of their 3 SB runs didn't average that.

 

No I'm not asking that. I am definitively not. The defense HAS to be better in the playoffs. But we might need in the crunch to O to make a play too. Because playoff games come down to the final four minutes very often. So while the offensive concern is lesser it isn't nothing.

[QB Bills]

Despite popular opinion, pass rush has not been the problem in the playoff losses. Its been coaching. Bruce Smith in his prime isn't sniffing Mahomes when he's getting the ball out within 2 seconds to receivers running wide open 5 yards from the line of scrimmage.

 

This is what drives me nuts about the Allen vs Mahomes discussion. Yes, Mahomes has been great in his career. But he hasn't had to do anything special against the Bills in the playoffs. I remember him missing two wide open receivers for easy TDs in the playoff loss at home and the Chiefs still won relatively easily.

[BillsFan130]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Sorry you are right on the Jags game. Don't know how I'd misremembered that. But the Cooks play wasn't the only play of the drive vs Denver. 

 

The fact is other than 1 every Superbowl winner going back ovet 10 years has had to win at least one game that went down to the final 4 minutes on route. And the last three years the Bills haven't been good in those situations on either side of the ball. 

 

The defense has to get better in the playoffs - period. But the offense has to make some of those plays at the end too.

I agree that they haven't closed on offence on a couple of instances. I guess my point is I'm not concerned about it.
 

1 was special teams missing a kick , 1 was a drop (sure and protection messed up), and 1 was a bad call that would have been the game winning drive.

 

There have been many times where the offence in the playoffs has been insanely clutch, way more often than not 

 

[Mikie2times]

It's was becoming a bigger issue over time and the philosophical gap in our identity was puzzling. On one hand we played a ball control offense. On the other hand we played a pass funnel defense and allowed teams to run a ball controlled offense. It just resulted in a shorter game which is puzzling when you have such an edge at the QB position. It worked better when we were less ball control because teams would get behind and that would naturally play into the pass funnel. Its this general lack of cohesiveness in identity that frustrated me the most.