Keep telling us McD wasn’t the problem…

[Don Otreply]

3 minutes ago, Juice_32 said:

I couldn't be happier that he is gone. And I know I'm in the minority, but I don't think he was a class act either. I think he was stubborn, uptight, and unable to take criticism. McD is the worst kind of narcissist, the kind who wears the humility mask. Good riddance to his defense that could only stop mid tier QBs. The guy wasted 5 years of a generational QB. I don't know if we will ever win one, but I know we wouldn't have with him. Cheers to Terry for having the balls to dump the bum.

Using kinder words would create a more thoughtful image of yourself, no need to be a savage with your verbiage, like him or not he is a human being and deserves your respect wether you realize it or not, likely without Sean we are a different version of the Cleveland Browns/ New York Jets, be grateful the turn of events gave us Sean as the perfect bridge HC. 

[eball]

For those asking, the “point” of this post is that I found it relevant in the midst of McD’s “rehabilitation” media tour.

 

Once again, I’ve never said McD isn’t a good man, culture builder, or football coach…but it is becoming increasingly clear (at least to me) that the coaching aspect has been overrated in the past and he’s not an elite defensive strategist. This, along with below average processing ability in crunch time, is why he failed to get the Bills over the hump. 
 

It is a game of inches and bounces and it’s true that had the Bills gotten a few breaks we probably wouldn’t be having this conversation. 
 

I’m excited about the new energy and attitude around OBD, and that our defense won’t be so stale and predictable. 
 

 

[GunnerBill]

35 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Since it looked like coaching, not talent, was the problem, starting with the coach was the right thing to do.

 

It is that calculation I disagree with. In terms of what the main problem was, it was and still is IMO lack of elite talent aside from Josh. Lots of good players. Not enough great ones. That isn't to say it wasn't time for a coaching change. I think Terry's actual reason which was looking around the locker room after Denver and not knowing how the same coach would be able to pick those players up again and therefore it was time for a new voice is a more logical conclusion than the coaching was the problem more than the talent, personally. 

[Andrew Son]

8 minutes ago, eball said:

For those asking, the “point” of this post is that I found it relevant in the midst of McD’s “rehabilitation” media tour.

 

Once again, I’ve never said McD isn’t a good man, culture builder, or football coach…but it is becoming increasingly clear (at least to me) that the coaching aspect has been overrated in the past and he’s not an elite defensive strategist. This, along with below average processing ability in crunch time, is why he failed to get the Bills over the hump. 
 

It is a game of inches and bounces and it’s true that had the Bills gotten a few breaks we probably wouldn’t be having this conversation. 
 

I’m excited about the new energy and attitude around OBD, and that our defense won’t be so stale and predictable. 
 

 

Let's be honest, if McD was still here and Beane was given the boot, you'd be right here propping up McD and talking about how Beane was the problem.

[JP51]

5 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Using kinder words would create a more thoughtful image of yourself, no need to be a savage with your verbiage, like him or not he is a human being and deserves your respect wether you realize it or not, likely without Sean we are a different version of the Cleveland Browns/ New York Jets, be grateful the turn of events gave us Sean as the perfect bridge HC. 

I agree, I think McD was flawed, I think his downfall was his inability to change and being stubborn. His defense was out dated and was better served if you had a mediocre QB with ball hawking D because they relied on the turn over to get stops... He had Josh he could have been aggressive, who cares if they beat you deep... etc... I think if he was less stubborn and more a student he may have evolved. I hear now he is meeting with business leaders to understand how they lead etc... this means to me he is no narcissist if he is truly examining him self and recognizing he needs input and help to ultimately be successful.  This is not a bad person IMO, just a flawed one.  

[noacls]

Can't wait for the excuses on defense sucking this year!🤣

[Juice_32]

19 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Using kinder words would create a more thoughtful image of yourself, no need to be a savage with your verbiage, like him or not he is a human being and deserves your respect wether you realize it or not, likely without Sean we are a different version of the Cleveland Browns/ New York Jets, be grateful the turn of events gave us Sean as the perfect bridge HC. 

 

You can define the truth as "savage" but its still really just truth. Sometimes it hurts.

[Dillenger4]

10 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Nothing in the article is incorrect.  Those are statistical facts.  It’s not about it being a hit job, it’s the facts.  
 

In 3 of the last 4 losses to KC in the postseason, the Chiefs went on to lose the next game.  PPG vs Bills was over 35 and PPG the next week in those 3 losses was 17 PPG.  
 

2024 AFCCG, KC scored 32 on us and we lost despite scoring 29.  KC didn’t score 30 in any other game that season, reg or post.  29 should have beaten them, but our D again gave up 32.

 

In our 6 playoff losses, our Def gave up production average greater than the 2007 record setting Patriots offense averaged.  
 

Facts are facts - as much as I think McD is a very good HC, his playoff defense was a problem and it’s the main reason we never reached a SB yet.

mic drop!

[Shaw66]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is that calculation I disagree with. In terms of what the main problem was, it was and still is IMO lack of elite talent aside from Josh. Lots of good players. Not enough great ones. That isn't to say it wasn't time for a coaching change. I think Terry's actual reason which was looking around the locker room after Denver and not knowing how the same coach would be able to pick those players up again and therefore it was time for a new voice is a more logical conclusion than the coaching was the problem more than the talent, personally. 

That's interesting, but I think it gets to the same conclusion, which is the best place to start is with the coach. Indirectly, you're saying that he concluded that a different voice might have gotten a different result with the same talent. After all, if Pegula believed a different voice would have gotten the same or worse result, there'd be no point in removing the coach.  

 

From a management point of view, the relative success of the team meant that the right move was to change as little as possible. Changing the coach, especially when the conclusion was a different voice was necessary, was the least disruptive change. As I said, changing GM's means you're changing players, which means you're rebuilding. A new GM is not going to come in and keep everything the same. 

 

I've been listening to you on the subject of Beane and his personnel decisions. I don't agree with some of what you've said, but I'm just smart enough to know (1) I don't know, and (2) you're a guy who's thought productively about a lot of this.  Frankly, I'm hoping Beane will be a consensus GM-of-the-year in 2026.  I'm hoping people will say, "Look at how he added Moore and Parker and ________. He turned the team around."  If that happens, he will be getting too much praise.  McDermott and Beane built this team together, and if moving on from McDermott is what it takes to get over the top, that doesn't mean that McDermott was somehow the villain in this story. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

12 minutes ago, noacls said:

Can't wait for the excuses on defense sucking this year!🤣

Thanks to McDermott's complicated defensive scheme, all the returning veterans are able to split the atom, whereas all that's needed is someone to tackle the guy with the ball. 🤔

[LarryMadman]

8 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Many of us have pointed this out for years. McDermott's defense padded the stats against some truly terrible QBs and routinely got shredded by good QBs.

His defensedid make some plays in key moments/games over the years. 

And the best QBs make plays against even the best defenses.

However the defense failed more often than not even dating back to the Houston playoff second half choke.

 

Time to move on. 

 

Leonard and Brady get no pass. The expectation is SuperBowl. Nothing less is a success. Two years and that's it. If no Lombardi in two years fire everyone and give Allen a couple more years with a new regime.

 

Lol, McDermott got 9 years but Brady is only getting 2 if he doesnt WIN a Super Bowl, get outta here with that crap!

[Beck Water]

11 hours ago, MJS said:

Ty Dunne makes his living off of Sean McDermott hit pieces.

 

Pretty much. 

He knows the Bills have a fervent fan base who are lapping up any content they can right now
He needs to pay his mortgage and his utility bills

Slam Sean McDermott, sure to get the clicks.

I think the truth of any picture is likely more nuanced. 

The '90s superbowl Bills, Thurman Thomas etc, have said "the opposing defense knew what we were going to do, they still couldn't stop us".  Knowing what a team is likely to do offensively or defensively, and being able to counter it or stop it are two different things.  It's not as simple as "McDermott's D works against second tier QB like Tua but not against superstars like Mahomes" or we wouldn't have the regular-season success we had against the Chiefs and other teams with top QBs (in the regular season)

A key point is that McDermott's D was not built around what Acho called "Freakazoids" on D - players who could single handedly wreck a game, Chris Jones or Aaron Donald types (a good thing, because despite Beane breaking the bank on guys like Von Miller McD never had such players).  Instead it seems to me, it was built on "everyone know their 1/11th and do it impeccably, all game long".  It could work when 1 starter went down.  2 starters.  But 3 or 4 starters, and you would wind up with at least one guy on the field who was either physically incapable of doing the job, or who made mental mistakes that left weaknesses the offense could exploit.  There was no "freakazoid game changer" on D who could correct that math.  It's fair to ask, "can such a D succeed during a long season followed by playoffs?" when injuries take their toll?  Especially fair as the guys who were initially durable and reliable start missing chunks of the season as age and injuries mount up.

It was also built on the front 4 both having impeccable gap integrity and providing pressure.  Whether that can actually work in the modern NFL IDK, but it's factual that McDermott's D went into many of its playoff losses playing backups to backups and not able to get pressure with the front 4.

I'm personally unpersuaded that The Buffalo Bills Have a Sean McDermott Problem (and that's been solved while retaining Beane and Brady) is a view that hindsight will support.  I think there are points to be made that despite many high draft picks on D and much use of cap resources, Beane never succeeded in supplying much quality defensive talent.  There was a narrative running that this was on McDermott overriding Beane and weighing in, but I think some aspects of this year's draft disprove that.

I don't and didn't oppose firing McDermott.  I think a HC and his message get stale with a team after a while.  I think it was time for a new approach.  Whether the Bills made the correct "new approach" by promoting Beane and Brady instead of cleaning house, I think remains to be seen.

Time will tell.

Edited April 29 by Beck Water

[BillsFan130]

39 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is that calculation I disagree with. In terms of what the main problem was, it was and still is IMO lack of elite talent aside from Josh. Lots of good players. Not enough great ones. That isn't to say it wasn't time for a coaching change. I think Terry's actual reason which was looking around the locker room after Denver and not knowing how the same coach would be able to pick those players up again and therefore it was time for a new voice is a more logical conclusion than the coaching was the problem more than the talent, personally. 

Let me ask you this then. If it is a purely talent issue, why is it that McDermott did great against KC in the regular season, but failed horribly every year in the playoffs?

 

They say the 2nd game against an opponent in the same year, tells a lot about coaching.

 

In this case, Andy knew what McDermott likes to run on D, and he exposed it year after year in the playoffs.

 
McDermott plays checkers, Andy plays chess

[Beck Water]

9 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Many of us have pointed this out for years. McDermott's defense padded the stats against some truly terrible QBs and routinely got shredded by good QBs.

 

I think if a person does a deep dive into the regular season, that narrative doesn't entirely hold up.  Pretty much any D is going to give up yards and points against top defenses, but the fact is, during the regular season when healthy, the Bills D did enough against top offenses.  A lot of the playoff field in successive seasons showed up in the W column during the regular season.  

 

And, the Bills D sometimes struggled against some very mediocre QBs.

 

It's just not as simple as that.

 

 

 

1 minute ago, BillsFan130 said:

Let me ask you this then. If it is a purely talent issue, why is it that McDermott did great against KC in the regular season, but failed horribly every year in the playoffs?

 

A lot of it had to do IMO with the Jimmies and Joes.  Look at the roster that was available.  Look at who was healthy.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, BillsFan130 said:

Let me ask you this then. If it is a purely talent issue, why is it that McDermott did great against KC in the regular season, but failed horribly every year in the playoffs?

 

They say the 2nd game against an opponent in the same year, tells a lot about coaching.

 

In this case, Andy knew what McDermott likes to run on D, and he exposed it year after year in the playoffs.

 
McDermott plays checkers, Andy plays chess

 

I didn't say purely a talent issue. And on the KC games - all of those games came down to a play or two at the end. We could easily have won three of the four playoff meetings. They could easily have won 3 of the last 4 regular season games.

[gonzo1105]

5 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Pretty much. 

He knows the Bills have a fervent fan base who are lapping up any content they can right now
He needs to pay his mortgage and his utility bills

Slam Sean McDermott, sure to get the clicks.

I think the truth of any picture is likely more nuanced. 

The '90s superbowl Bills, Thurman Thomas etc, have said "the opposing defense knew what we were going to do, they still couldn't stop us".  Knowing what a team is likely to do offensively or defensively, and being able to counter it or stop it are two different things.  It's not as simple as "McDermott's D works against second tier QB like Tua but not against superstars like Mahomes" or we wouldn't have the regular-season success we had against the Chiefs and other teams with top QBs (in the regular season)

A key point is that McDermott's D was not built around what Acho called "Freakazoids" on D - players who could single handedly wreck a game, Chris Jones or Aaron Donald types (a good thing, because despite Beane breaking the bank on guys like Von Miller McD never had such players).  Instead it seems to me, it was built on "everyone know their 1/11th and do it impeccably, all game long".  It could work when 1 starter went down.  2 starters.  But 3 or 4 starters, and you would wind up with at least one guy on the field who was either physically incapable of doing the job, or who made mental mistakes that left weaknesses the offense could exploit.  There was no "freakazoid game changer" on D who could correct that math.  It's fair to ask, "can such a D succeed during a long season followed by playoffs?" when injuries take their toll?  Especially fair as the guys who were initially durable and reliable start missing chunks of the season as age and injuries mount up.

It was also built on the front 4 both having impeccable gap integrity and providing pressure.  Whether that can actually work in the modern NFL IDK, but it's factual that McDermott's D went into many of its playoff losses playing backups to backups and not able to get pressure with the front 4.

I'm personally unpersuaded that The Buffalo Bills Have a Sean McDermott Problem (and that's been solved while retaining Beane and Brady) is a view that hindsight will support.  I think there are points to be made that despite many high draft picks on D and much use of cap resources, Beane never succeeded in supplying much quality defensive talent.  There was a narrative running that this was on McDermott overriding Beane and weighing in, but I think some aspects of this year's draft disprove that.

I don't and didn't oppose firing McDermott.  I think a HC and his message get stale with a team after a while.  I think it was time for a new approach.  Whether the Bills made the correct "new approach" by promoting Beane and Brady instead of cleaning house, I think remains to be seen.

Time will tell.

The biggest hit that can hurt McDermott as a coach is as a developer if all of a sudden the lightbulb comes on for some of the Bills younger defenders. 
 

If Landon Jackson, Dewayne Carter, TJ Sanders, Dorian Williams etc start playing at a higher level that will be McDermotts biggest knock to me. If Rousseau all of a sudden gets 10 sacks. It’s one thing I don’t think people talk about. They developed back end players but never really anyone in the front 7 besides maybe Milano. 

[Dr. Who]

6 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Pretty much. 

He knows the Bills have a fervent fan base who are lapping up any content they can right now
He needs to pay his mortgage and his utility bills

Slam Sean McDermott, sure to get the clicks.

I think the truth of any picture is likely more nuanced. 

The '90s superbowl Bills, Thurman Thomas etc, have said "the opposing defense knew what we were going to do, they still couldn't stop us".  Knowing what a team is likely to do offensively or defensively, and being able to counter it or stop it are two different things.  It's not as simple as "McDermott's D works against second tier QB like Tua but not against superstars like Mahomes" or we wouldn't have the regular-season success we had against the Chiefs and other teams with top QBs (in the regular season)

A key point is that McDermott's D was not built around what Acho called "Freakazoids" on D - players who could single handedly wreck a game, Chris Jones or Aaron Donald types (a good thing, because despite Beane breaking the bank on guys like Von Miller McD never had such players).  Instead it seems to me, it was built on "everyone know their 1/11th and do it impeccably, all game long".  It could work when 1 starter went down.  2 starters.  But 3 or 4 starters, and you would wind up with at least one guy on the field who was either physically incapable of doing the job, or who made mental mistakes that left weaknesses the offense could exploit.  There was no "freakazoid game changer" on D who could correct that math.  It's fair to ask, "can such a D succeed during a long season followed by playoffs?" when injuries take their toll?

It was also built on the front 4 both having impeccable gap integrity and providing pressure.  Whether that can actually work in the modern NFL IDK, but it's factual that McDermott's D went into many of its playoff losses playing backups to backups and not able to get pressure with the front 4.

I'm personally unpersuaded that The Buffalo Bills Have a Sean McDermott Problem (and that's been solved while retaining Beane and Brady) is a view that hindsight will support.  I think there are points to be made that despite many high draft picks on D and much use of cap resources, Beane never succeeded in supplying much quality defensive talent.  There was a narrative running that this was on McDermott overriding Beane and weighing in, but I think some aspects of this year's draft disprove that.

I don't and didn't oppose firing McDermott.  I think a HC and his message get stale with a team after a while.  I think it was time for a new approach.  Whether the Bills made the correct "new approach" by promoting Beane and Brady instead of cleaning house, I think remains to be seen.

Time will tell.

Folks are putting a lot of hope in Leonhard's system and supposedly a more aggressive approach. I've been under the impression that McD's system was complex and took away from a simpler, more instinctive approach, though @HoofHearted asserts that every defensive schema is fairly complicated, so maybe that is untrue. And then, there is the unknown of how well players will fit into the new defense. One surmises growing pains and some less than perfect matches.

 

I do think overall talent is an issue, though a few pieces moving in the right direction could transform the situation.

[BillsFan130]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I didn't say purely a talent issue. And on the KC games - all of those games came down to a play or two at the end. We could easily have won three of the four playoff meetings. They could easily have won 3 of the last 4 regular season games.

Ok fair but you definitely seem to imply that it's way more of a talent issue. Which is why I poised that fair point.

In the reg season outside of the 2020 game, the defence has been awesome against KC. Including a game sealing INT.

 

In the playoffs, objectively it has been a epic failure on the defensive side

6 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I think if a person does a deep dive into the regular season, that narrative doesn't entirely hold up.  Pretty much any D is going to give up yards and points against top defenses, but the fact is, during the regular season when healthy, the Bills D did enough against top offenses.  A lot of the playoff field in successive seasons showed up in the W column during the regular season.  

 

And, the Bills D sometimes struggled against some very mediocre QBs.

 

It's just not as simple as that.

 

 

 

 

A lot of it had to do IMO with the Jimmies and Joes.  Look at the roster that was available.  Look at who was healthy.

13 seconds years Bills were missing starters in the regular season game. Held KC to I believe 20 points.

 

In the playoffs that year, only meaningful starter out was Tre white. And they gave up 42.

So that wouldn't really fit the injury narrative 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

I disagree very much - you can learn a great deal in interviews - including about the perception of your organization from people who compete against it. I am sad that the McDermott era had to end the way that it did. However, it needed to end.

 

I agree on certain items sure. But there is 0 percent chance any of the interviewees would say something that would come close to walking a line of approving McDermott's defensive system. If they did their homework going into the interview, they would know his defensive failures in the playoffs were likely the #1 reason McDermott was fired. 

[Don Otreply]

37 minutes ago, Juice_32 said:

 

You can define the truth as "savage" but its still really just truth. Sometimes it hurts.

It’s shows a lack of personal introspection, on your behalf,  being crude on purpose isn’t an attribute to be proud of…. How should we describe your shortcomings?  It’s a two edged sword my friend,