Can Dorian Williams become an Edge?

[transplantbillsfan]

I started a thread during the regular season asking if he could take on the Hoecht/Lorax role.  I'm abiding by the note in that thread that because it's an older thread, I should start a new one... plus I think this might be a little different.

 

This is a question I wonder if Leonhard is asking himself to maximize what he does best.  We all know Williams isn't an instinctive player, but he's strong and athletic.  He's very much a "see ball get ball!!!" kind of player.  As the season ended last year and we moved into the playoffs, it was clear he was being used a bit as an X-factor player occasionally in the role that was drawn out for Hoecht.

 

(Not really discussed, but I think losing Williams on that opening kickoff really destroyed a lot of the defensive game plan we went into the Broncos game with)

 

So first of all, I understand that Williams is, on paper, on the light side for an Edge rusher.  However, here are some of the listed Edge rusher weights this year at the Combine:

 

241 lbs   R Mason Thomas

239 lbs   Romello Height

242 lbs   Joshua Josephs

240 lbs   Jaishawn Barham

 

Dorian Williams weighed in at 228 lbs coming out of Tulane.  I don't know what his playing weight has been and whether his frame even has room to add weight, but how impossible would it be for him to add 12 lbs of good weight... again, depending on whether he's lighter or heavier than he was coming out of college.  Maybe his playing weight has actually been in the 230s and he would have less to gain.

 

He's 6'1", which is 1" shorter than the shortest Edge Rushers in this draft in Bain, Thomas and Tyreak Sapp, but the only one with more length (longer arms) in this draft is Keldrick Faulk and he has huge mitts.  Only one player (LT Overton) has bigger hands than Dorian Williams.

 

And his athleticism falls in the Edge rusher range as well.  Among the 20 Edge prospects that participated in the Combine this year, if Williams were among them, here's where he would rank:

 

2nd in 40 yard dash

1st in 10 yard split

10th (tie with David Bailey & Keldrick Faulk) in Vertical Jump

9th (tie with Trey Moore, T.J. Parker & Wesley Williams) in Broad Jump

 

 

I get that this seems a bit outlandish, but is it?  Wouldn't he translate pretty well to a true SAM linebacker in a 3-4?  And aren't those OLBs in Leonhard's system going to be our edge rushers?  

 

I have a feeling the feedback from the actual film guys are going to be related to a general stiffness and lack of bend and flexibility hindering the transition, but it seems like an idea worthy of consideration.

 

 

[BigAl2526]

I don't see it.  I think Leonhard could get creative and line Williams up in that outside LB spot on occasion, but I don't think he could take a steady diet of the physical abuse he would have to endure at 228 lbs..

[transplantbillsfan]

10 minutes ago, BigAl2526 said:

I don't see it.  I think Leonhard could get creative and line Williams up in that outside LB spot on occasion, but I don't think he could take a steady diet of the physical abuse he would have to endure at 228 lbs..

 

which is why he would gain 10-12 lbs if he were to switch

[Thrivefourfive]

Closer to the line of scrimmage?! I respect the write up and different angles to making Williams fit, somewhere, but maybe it’s just not doing to happen for this guy. When he takes off the elbow brace he literally looks like a physical CB. I love players that run around with their hair on fire. But I don’t think it’s wise to put that into long term planning. Unfortunately I’m of the opinion Williams isn’t going to work out for a second contract given his tiny frame. 

[BigAl2526]

46 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

which is why he would gain 10-12 lbs if he were to switch

His best attribute is his speed.  That could be compromised with weight gain.  

[NORWOODS FOOT]

What is his arm length and wing span? 

[transplantbillsfan]

10 minutes ago, BigAl2526 said:

His best attribute is his speed.  That could be compromised with weight gain.  

 

His 10 yard split was 1.54. The next closest Edge split was 1.59.

 

He can sacrifice a little speed to put on weight.

3 minutes ago, NORWOODS FOOT said:

What is his arm length and wing span? 

 

33 and 3/4" arms.

 

80 and 1/2" wingspan.

[BigAl2526]

I will say it is an intriguing thought.   I don't think it will happen, but who really knows? 

[Shaw66]

I don't see it. I don't think he has the appropriate size, and I think the position requires mental quickness and mental discipline that Williams generally hasn't demonstrated. I think he's better suited to be an inside linebacker where, I think, his decision making would be simpler. I think that position also plays better to his strength, which is a downhill attack mode.

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

I started a thread during the regular season asking if he could take on the Hoecht/Lorax role.  I'm abiding by the note in that thread that because it's an older thread, I should start a new one... plus I think this might be a little different.

 

This is a question I wonder if Leonhard is asking himself to maximize what he does best.  We all know Williams isn't an instinctive player, but he's strong and athletic.  He's very much a "see ball get ball!!!" kind of player.  As the season ended last year and we moved into the playoffs, it was clear he was being used a bit as an X-factor player occasionally in the role that was drawn out for Hoecht.

 

(Not really discussed, but I think losing Williams on that opening kickoff really destroyed a lot of the defensive game plan we went into the Broncos game with)

 

So first of all, I understand that Williams is, on paper, on the light side for an Edge rusher.  However, here are some of the listed Edge rusher weights this year at the Combine:

 

241 lbs   R Mason Thomas

239 lbs   Romello Height

242 lbs   Joshua Josephs

240 lbs   Jaishawn Barham

 

Dorian Williams weighed in at 228 lbs coming out of Tulane.  I don't know what his playing weight has been and whether his frame even has room to add weight, but how impossible would it be for him to add 12 lbs of good weight... again, depending on whether he's lighter or heavier than he was coming out of college.  Maybe his playing weight has actually been in the 230s and he would have less to gain.

 

He's 6'1", which is 1" shorter than the shortest Edge Rushers in this draft in Bain, Thomas and Tyreak Sapp, but the only one with more length (longer arms) in this draft is Keldrick Faulk and he has huge mitts.  Only one player (LT Overton) has bigger hands than Dorian Williams.

 

And his athleticism falls in the Edge rusher range as well.  Among the 20 Edge prospects that participated in the Combine this year, if Williams were among them, here's where he would rank:

 

2nd in 40 yard dash

1st in 10 yard split

10th (tie with David Bailey & Keldrick Faulk) in Vertical Jump

9th (tie with Trey Moore, T.J. Parker & Wesley Williams) in Broad Jump

 

 

I get that this seems a bit outlandish, but is it?  Wouldn't he translate pretty well to a true SAM linebacker in a 3-4?  And aren't those OLBs in Leonhard's system going to be our edge rushers?  

 

I have a feeling the feedback from the actual film guys are going to be related to a general stiffness and lack of bend and flexibility hindering the transition, but it seems like an idea worthy of consideration.

 

 

1st off..

 Good presentation with plenty of detail to consider.

You must have some sales experience 😋

 Because you have me thinking about this

 Well Done 

3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't see it. I don't think he has the appropriate size, and I think the position requires mental quickness and mental discipline that Williams generally hasn't demonstrated. I think he's better suited to be an inside linebacker where, I think, his decision making would be simpler. I think that position also plays better to his strength, which is a downhill attack mode.

He is too small for that , perhaps ?

 what did McD really draft him to become anyways ? We speak more of his limitations than qualities.

 Can he play a Hoecht til Hoecht is healthy ?

[Don Otreply]

This is a pretty darn good presentation for a different/ additional usage of a currently available player,

 

stranger things…,

[Snappysnackcakes]

Didn’t expect to read this when I did my compulsory check in this evening. With all due respect, why not test Ed Oliver at Will with this logic? Damn I hate the slow times, pre-draft, this time of year. 

[BillsFanForever19]

3 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

I started a thread during the regular season asking if he could take on the Hoecht/Lorax role.  I'm abiding by the note in that thread that because it's an older thread, I should start a new one... plus I think this might be a little different.

 

This is a question I wonder if Leonhard is asking himself to maximize what he does best.  We all know Williams isn't an instinctive player, but he's strong and athletic.  He's very much a "see ball get ball!!!" kind of player.  As the season ended last year and we moved into the playoffs, it was clear he was being used a bit as an X-factor player occasionally in the role that was drawn out for Hoecht.

 

(Not really discussed, but I think losing Williams on that opening kickoff really destroyed a lot of the defensive game plan we went into the Broncos game with)

 

So first of all, I understand that Williams is, on paper, on the light side for an Edge rusher.  However, here are some of the listed Edge rusher weights this year at the Combine:

 

241 lbs   R Mason Thomas

239 lbs   Romello Height

242 lbs   Joshua Josephs

240 lbs   Jaishawn Barham

 

Dorian Williams weighed in at 228 lbs coming out of Tulane.  I don't know what his playing weight has been and whether his frame even has room to add weight, but how impossible would it be for him to add 12 lbs of good weight... again, depending on whether he's lighter or heavier than he was coming out of college.  Maybe his playing weight has actually been in the 230s and he would have less to gain.

 

He's 6'1", which is 1" shorter than the shortest Edge Rushers in this draft in Bain, Thomas and Tyreak Sapp, but the only one with more length (longer arms) in this draft is Keldrick Faulk and he has huge mitts.  Only one player (LT Overton) has bigger hands than Dorian Williams.

 

And his athleticism falls in the Edge rusher range as well.  Among the 20 Edge prospects that participated in the Combine this year, if Williams were among them, here's where he would rank:

 

2nd in 40 yard dash

1st in 10 yard split

10th (tie with David Bailey & Keldrick Faulk) in Vertical Jump

9th (tie with Trey Moore, T.J. Parker & Wesley Williams) in Broad Jump

 

 

I get that this seems a bit outlandish, but is it?  Wouldn't he translate pretty well to a true SAM linebacker in a 3-4?  And aren't those OLBs in Leonhard's system going to be our edge rushers?  

 

I have a feeling the feedback from the actual film guys are going to be related to a general stiffness and lack of bend and flexibility hindering the transition, but it seems like an idea worthy of consideration.

 

I don't see why we'd switch him from his natural position to a spot that isn't his natural position that we're also in better shape at roster wise. If the season started tomorrow, Dorian Williams would be starting at Linebacker, pretty much out of necessity.

 

You can never go wrong with more Edge Rushers, but with Bradley Chubb and Greg Rousseau as our starters and Michael Hoecht as our 3rd (who displayed a transformative level of ability and will be ready by Week 1), along with a 3rd Round Pick coming into his 2nd Year in Landon Jackson, and Javon Solomon - I don't see it as a glaring need.

 

Linebacker, however, we have Terrel Bernard and Dorian Williams with just Joe Andreesen behind them. That's it. Remove Williams from the equation and we're really nowhere. 

Edited April 3 by BillsFanForever19

[Allen2Moulds]

To me, this comes down to one thing. Does he have the bend?

We know he doesn't do so well with zone coverage, but if he has ability to get to the QB, you find a home somewhere. 

His long arms certainly make up for the inch height difference, and it's probably why he played that hybrid inside rush role well. But I have no idea about bend. Seems to me like you just keep him inside, where you can still use him as an occasional rusher.

[wppete]

I think he will be a great blitzing MLB in the new scheme.

[transplantbillsfan]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't see it. I don't think he has the appropriate size, and I think the position requires mental quickness and mental discipline that Williams generally hasn't demonstrated. I think he's better suited to be an inside linebacker where, I think, his decision making would be simpler. I think that position also plays better to his strength, which is a downhill attack mode.

 

You think he needs to do more thinking as an Edge than ILB?

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I don't see why we'd switch him from his natural position to a spot that isn't his natural position that we're also in better shape at roster wise. If the season started tomorrow, Dorian Williams would be starting at Linebacker, pretty much out of necessity.

 

You can never go wrong with more Edge Rushers, but with Bradley Chubb and Greg Rousseau as our starters and Michael Hoecht as our 3rd (who displayed a transformative level of ability and will be ready by Week 1), along with a 3rd Round Pick coming into his 2nd Year in Landon Jackson, and Javon Solomon - I don't see it as a glaring need.

 

Linebacker, however, we have Terrel Bernard and Dorian Williams with just Joe Andreesen behind them. That's it. Remove Williams from the equation and we're really nowhere. 

 

Landon Jackson is probably going to be a 3 Tech in this D. Beane even hinted at this at the owner's meeting.

 

And I agree about the LB depth, but I really think Shaq Thompson has a general agreement with Beane he's coming after the draft. Or there's the draft.

 

I also think Andreeson is being slept on. I think he could be a better ILB than Williams.

 

And we're stuck with Bernard at the other spot...

[finn]

10 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't see it. I don't think he has the appropriate size, and I think the position requires mental quickness and mental discipline that Williams generally hasn't demonstrated. I think he's better suited to be an inside linebacker where, I think, his decision making would be simpler. I think that position also plays better to his strength, which is a downhill attack mode.

Maybe he should put on those 12-15 pounds of muscle--and stick to inside linebacker, where he could be a real thumper at that weight. We're going to need numbers in there with Bernard likely to renew his status as permanent member of the DNP list. 

[H2o]

The front we are moving to is similar to what he played ILB in at Tulane. I don't expect a position switch for him. 

[BeyondTheProcess]

11 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

His 10 yard split was 1.54. The next closest Edge split was 1.59.

 

He can sacrifice a little speed to put on weight.

 

33 and 3/4" arms.

 

80 and 1/2" wingspan.

might work