Bruce Feldman 1st round mock for The Athletic

[Kirby Jackson]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What are they offering to get up from 12 though?

 

Or are you saying maybe give #12 and #20 for #3 and #34?

 

That might work I suppose.

Exactly

 

Edit: I also think that makes sense for the Cardinals (especially if they like Simpson). They can get the guy at 12 that they probably would have selected at 3. 😂😂 They can the. Get their QB at 20. 

Edited April 2 by Kirby Jackson

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, Allen2Moulds said:

Another comparison in more recent memory, was the Josh Allen draft.  The Jets moved from 6 to 3, and it cost them 3 2nd round picks. Now of course there's a quarterback tax in there.  That being said, the price is probably somewhere in the middle of those 2 trades. I would say the bare bone minimum is a 2 and a 3.  It could be a 3 this year, and a 2 next year, or something like that.  Even that, feels a little light. 

 

Yea 2018 is a bad comparison. That was known to be a strong first round. That is why I use 2013, because it was, like this one, acknowledged as a weaker round 1 group. 

[BigAl2526]

Cashius Howell is just one example of why #26 is a tough place for the Bills to be in this draft.  He's talented and has perhaps an elite trait, but he also may have a "fatal" flaw.  The receivers that might fall to the Bills are similar.  They have desirable traits, but also some that make me uncomfortable picking one at #26. 

The one player I see, who might be available at #26, that doesn't have a significant flaw is linebacker CJ Allen, and I'm not sure I want the Bills to pick him.  I think the best move the Bills could make is to talk the Cardinals into switching so the Cardinals can pick Ty Simpson and Buffalo can pick one of the players at #34 they might have had to settle for at #26.

 

 

 

Edited April 3 by BigAl2526

[Gambit]

@GunnerBill @gonzo1105 Have you guys said what your WR rankings are? I'm sure you have, so I apologize for having you repeat them. I'm mainly interested in where you both placed Chris Bell, before and after his injury?

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, Gambit said:

@GunnerBill @gonzo1105 Have you guys said what your WR rankings are? I'm sure you have, so I apologize for having you repeat them. I'm mainly interested in where you both placed Chris Bell, before and after his injury?

 

So I don't have pre and post injury rankings really. I grade the film and then put flags for injury and off field. 

 

I've got Bell as an early 3rd grade - WR8. But in this class think he will/should go second half of round 2.

[The Firebaugh Kid]

His momma call him Clay, Ima call him Clay

[Gambit]

24 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So I don't have pre and post injury rankings really. I grade the film and then put flags for injury and off field. 

 

I've got Bell as an early 3rd grade - WR8. But in this class think he will/should go second half of round 2.

TYSM! And definitely seems like a fair grade for him. I love his height/weight and speed but definitely doesn't have insane stats. Would've loved using our 2nd on him but clearly no longer possible.

[billsfan89]

EDGE or WR are the Bills most pressing needs.

 

The Bills Edge rush after Groot and Chubb (who while a solid tandem are far from an elite pass rushing duo) is not great. If the Bills don't grab a first round talent there the Bills will likely be in the market for another vet to add some depth. I could see the Bills if they don't grab a round one Edge going after Bosa again or another comparable vet. 

 

WR is another major need. Right now the competition for WR2 is Josh Palmer and Keon. That's terrible and even if the team brings back Cooks into the fold I still see a longer term need at WR. 

 

DT and LB are also areas that need some boosting but I can't see any area more pressing than EDGE or WR.

 

[Paup 1995MVP]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If you are taking a speed rusher round 3 or round 4 to be a designated pass rusher only - absolutely fair. 

 

But if you have 30.5" arms and the OT doesn't totally whiff the play is dead, you are done. He gets a hand on you and you are flailing. You can't take that in the first round IMO. A speed rusher in the first round needs to have something else to his game too because even the best speed rushers in the NFL don't just blow past OTs untouched 6 or 7 times per game. 

 

Howell has no plan B, is poor playing the run and can't disengage from blockers consistently. The length definitely hurts him. 

 

I remain very much of the view the Buffalo Bills will NOT draft Cashius Howell.

The way you talk about him does not sound good.  

 

What is to like about him?  Sounds like a 3rd or 4 th round prospect.  

[skibum]

Great name.

[RenoNVBillsfan]

14 hours ago, dreadlox said:

 

He’s generally predicted around The Bills’ pick. Matt Miller at ESPN has him at 22 to LA. Bucky Brooks predicts 27 to the 49ers. Kiper has him as the 4th best edge and not in the 1st round. He has 30.5 inch arms so some think he might fall out of the first.

Didn’t Kiper predict Bills would take a CB at #26? CB..arguably the most solid position on D now?!? I swear, Kiper is seriously falling faster than Shedeur Sanders. 🙄

[BigAl2526]

18 hours ago, RenoNVBillsfan said:

Didn’t Kiper predict Bills would take a CB at #26? CB..arguably the most solid position on D now?!? I swear, Kiper is seriously falling faster than Shedeur Sanders. 🙄

Well, the Bills have Benford, who is rock solid when healthy, but has had a few injuries lately.  Then they have Hairston, who is promising, but might not yet be considered a sure thing.  In the slot they have Dee Alford.  He is seen as smart, versatile and mentally tough, and should be fine as a replacement for Taron Johnson.  What the Bills don't have are proven backups.  They at least one question mark plus some fringe players.  Will Dorian Strong be able to mount a comeback?  He did look promising when he played.  I'm not expecting to get much of anything out of Couch, Devonshire or Porter.  So, Buffalo is probably OK with their starters, but have no certainty at all in the way of depth.  I would not be thrilled with the Bills picking a CB because ideally in the first round it's best to draft a sure-fire starter at a position of need, and what the Bills would be getting is competition for a starting job with an upgrade of depth.  Still, if trading down is not an option for the Bills, there may not be any options that will actually give Buffalo a sure-fire starter at a position of need.

Edited April 3 by BigAl2526

[Big Turk]

If he ain't Clay, I don't want him to Play.

[GunnerBill]

13 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

The way you talk about him does not sound good.  

 

What is to like about him?  Sounds like a 3rd or 4 th round prospect.  

 

I have him graded end of round 2 - he will go before that but in terms of grade that's where I have him. 

 

What's to like? Explosion and bend. I just think it is going to be hard for him to maximise those skills in the NFL for the reasons discussed. Situational pass rusher is what I see him as rather than ever being a starter / true 3 down player.

[Mikey152]

While I will preface this with the fact that I only have surface knowledge of Howell (ie his combine #s and highlights), something has to be said about all these amateur stats people are throwing around about arm length...

 

First off, short arms or not, Howell is clearly an OLB only. The short arms just confirm that guy is never gonna get meaningful snaps with his hand in the dirt. That immediately limits him to teams that feature significant amounts of 3-4 concepts. It also means he might come off the field more than you would like for a top pick.

 

That said, for a true OLB who plays almost exclusively standing up, his arms aren't nearly the issue they are being made out to be. They limit his versatility, not his effectiveness. You aren't gonna see a ton of guys like this drafted in the first round or making pro bowls due to volume, not win rate.

 

All that said, I actually think he'd be a great changeup for the Bills to use after getting bull rushed by Rousseau and Chubb all game. That speed would feel 10x faster. I'd be down for taking him with the caveat that he would never really be a "starter"

[SoonerBillsFan]

17 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

EDGE or WR are the Bills most pressing needs.

 

The Bills Edge rush after Groot and Chubb (who while a solid tandem are far from an elite pass rushing duo) is not great. If the Bills don't grab a first round talent there the Bills will likely be in the market for another vet to add some depth. I could see the Bills if they don't grab a round one Edge going after Bosa again or another comparable vet. 

 

WR is another major need. Right now the competition for WR2 is Josh Palmer and Keon. That's terrible and even if the team brings back Cooks into the fold I still see a longer term need at WR. 

 

DT and LB are also areas that need some boosting but I can't see any area more pressing than EDGE or WR.

 

ILB's are the pressing need, we dont' have any for THIS defense.  I still don't get how fans cant conceptually grasp this and how important the ILB position is for this defense. They have their own assistant coach for a reason.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Mikey152 said:

While I will preface this with the fact that I only have surface knowledge of Howell (ie his combine #s and highlights), something has to be said about all these amateur stats people are throwing around about arm length...

 

First off, short arms or not, Howell is clearly an OLB only. The short arms just confirm that guy is never gonna get meaningful snaps with his hand in the dirt. That immediately limits him to teams that feature significant amounts of 3-4 concepts. It also means he might come off the field more than you would like for a top pick.

 

That said, for a true OLB who plays almost exclusively standing up, his arms aren't nearly the issue they are being made out to be. They limit his versatility, not his effectiveness. You aren't gonna see a ton of guys like this drafted in the first round or making pro bowls due to volume, not win rate.

 

All that said, I actually think he'd be a great changeup for the Bills to use after getting bull rushed by Rousseau and Chubb all game. That speed would feel 10x faster. I'd be down for taking him with the caveat that he would never really be a "starter"

 

I get the point but they do limit effectiveness too. An offensive tackle who gets hands on him early (and he has a habit of being a bit open chested in his rush) is going to be able to control him because of the reach advantage. He isn't going to be able to deploy much in the way of counters.

[Mikey152]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I get the point but they do limit effectiveness too. An offensive tackle who gets hands on him early (and he has a habit of being a bit open chested in his rush) is going to be able to control him because of the reach advantage. He isn't going to be able to deploy much in the way of counters.

If he is standing up on a pass rush rep and letting tackles get their hands on his chest, he is losing the rep with 35" arms. 

 

The name of the game is leverage, and length is only part of the equation. Angle and force matter too. Explosion and bend matter, especilally for a stand up speed rusher.  You can negate long arms with angles.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Mikey152 said:

If he is standing up on a pass rush rep and letting tackles get their hands on his chest, he is losing the rep with 35" arms. 

 

The name of the game is leverage, and length is only part of the equation. Angle and force matter too. Explosion and bend matter, especilally for a stand up speed rusher.  You can negate long arms with angles.

 

You can mitigate, to some extent, you can't negate completely. And he is going to be losing those battles by 3 to 5 inches every time. His angles and leverage have an enormous amount to overcome.

[LEBills]

3 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

ILB's are the pressing need, we dont' have any for THIS defense.  I still don't get how fans cant conceptually grasp this and how important the ILB position is for this defense. They have their own assistant coach for a reason.

It’s just because of the value of that position in general. People expect that we can get a fine enough starter later in the draft or in FA. 
 

The Broncos last year had Alex Singleton and Justin Strnad who were undrafted and a 5th round pick respectively. Same for the Vikings, an undrafted and 5th round ILB. Seahawks have an undrafted LB and a FA linebacker making 9.5 million per season.

So many people want to focus on the expensive positions of WR and Edge early and leave the cheaper positions for later or FA.