Do not trade for anyone else, or pay any top FA's. Draft well for once.

[PoundingDog]

Beane had success earlier with FA wide receivers Cole Beasley and John Brown, off-season trade of Stephon Diggs. But since 2021 a lot of failed FA wide receivers, Emmanuel Sanders, Isiah McKenzie, Deonte Hardy, Curtis Samuel, Josh Palmer, Elijah Moore. And a failed in season trade for Cooper. So he's back onto the trade horse, bring in DJ Moore. I'd not expect him to sign another FA WR this off-season.

 

He has not drafted much better WR either. But I do expect him to try a day 3 pick there.

 

I can't believe one slot CB is the only defensive player in FA signing. There has to be more signings. Bargain hunting is not easy for obvious reasons. Looks like we are now focusing Defensive drafting, especially on less glamorous position of NT, inside linebackers, safeties, we can actually get a stud one to start right away, just like how we get Kincaid at 25. 

[hondo in seattle]

12 hours ago, ganesh said:

Taron Johnson, Milano, Oliver and Christian Benford all have been AllPros.  Injuries at inopportune time has crushed this defense 

 

I agree wholeheartedly with your point of injuries crushing the defense.  But I stand by the claim that Whaley found more of McD's difference makers than Beane.

 

The list you provided, btw, only includes 2 All Pro selections (Johnson once and Milano once).  Oliver and Benford were never All Pro.  And Milano was a Whaley pick. So Beane has accounted for one second team All Pro in his 9 years as GM.  Not a great haul.

 

Hyde and Poyer also made All Pro teams during Beane's tenure, but they were acquired by Whaley.  Whaley also got us Tre White and Jerry Hughes.  

[PoundingDog]

20 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

I’m picking up what you’re putting down, 

and the “draft well & re-sign your own “ is indeed the way to go, we all get apprehensive on the draft days, and for good reason, the draft can easily end up a total crapshoot, “ like a box full of chocolate, ya never know what you’re gonna get “  is it gonna be an Elam or an Allen??? 🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞

But you have to get that right for the franchise to be successful - there is no other alternative. NFL is set up that you just can't buy a championship otherwise you'd have the Giants and Cowboys of the world winning every year.

 

It is the owner's job to make sure you have the right front office in place so the responsibility rests on the ownership. We have seen it firsthand in Buffalo where a sub-par owner can do to a franchise, even when he lucked into a top GM, he would ruin it. Terry Pegula to me, so far, knows what is not working. He knew its time to can Rex and Whaley just 2 years in. He knew it's time to break up the McDermott and Beane tendon. I have confidence he knows in the next few years if Beane is the one to make it work.

[SoonerBillsFan]

29 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

I’m picking up what you’re putting down, 

and the “draft well & re-sign your own “ is indeed the way to go, we all get apprehensive on the draft days, and for good reason, the draft can easily end up a total crapshoot, “ like a box full of chocolate, ya never know what you’re gonna get “  is it gonna be an Elam or an Allen??? 🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞

Here are my two hopes...

 

1) a lot of the misses were because McDermott has his metrics or whatever and had Beane pick who he felt would fit his system.

 

2) Either way, I hope bean leans into the draft advice of Graine and Gray, as well as the scouts. Find out what Brady, Carmichael and most importantly Leonhard needs, then look at the talent and suggest guys that fit.  Mostly they want position less players (to an extent) on Defense. And that does work, again to an extent because you cant put a 225lb speed guy on the DL in a 3-4. And yes I am being extreme with my example, but you get the point.

 

BPA at this point. If its a Guard, draft them. If its A WR draft them. Just upgrade the overall talent on this freaking team!

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

14 minutes ago, PoundingDog said:

Beane had success earlier with FA wide receivers Cole Beasley and John Brown, off-season trade of Stephon Diggs. But since 2021 a lot of failed FA wide receivers, Emmanuel Sanders, Isiah McKenzie, Deonte Hardy, Curtis Samuel, Josh Palmer, Elijah Moore. And a failed in season trade for Cooper. So he's back onto the trade horse, bring in DJ Moore. I'd not expect him to sign another FA WR this off-season.

 

He has not drafted much better WR either. But I do expect him to try a day 3 pick there.

 

I can't believe one slot CB is the only defensive player in FA signing. There has to be more signings. Bargain hunting is not easy for obvious reasons. Looks like we are now focusing Defensive drafting, especially on less glamorous position of NT, inside linebackers, safeties, we can actually get a stud one to start right away, just like how we get Kincaid at 25. 

 

They did sign chubb who i'd say is one of the last of that 2nd tier free agent pass rushers, but probably the one with the talent to be a 1st tier type.  His comes down to health, but if he plays most of the games i'd imagine he's worth the contract he got.  He has played 16+ games in 3/4 years FWIW.  I also think a healthy chubb has more impact than ossai, jones, paye, key or anyone else who was signed for under 20M AAV.  

[hondo in seattle]

6 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

 

 

Notable Beane draftees:

2018 - #7 Josh Allen, #16 Tremaine Edmunds, #121 Taron Johnson, #166 Wyatt Teller  -  3 first or second team All Pros, 1 Pro Bowler

2019 - #9 Ed Oliver, #96 Dawson Knox - 1 Pro Bowler

2020 - #54 AJ Epenesa, #188 Tyler Bass  (Traded first round pick for Stefon Diggs, 2 time All Pro and 2 time Pro Bowler in his 4 seasons with the Bills)

2021 - #30 Greg Rousseau, #93 Spencer Brown

2022 - #63 James Cook, #89 Terrel Bernard, #148 Kahlil Shakir, #185 Christian Benford - 1 second team All Pro

2023 -#25 Dalton Kincaid, #59 O'Cyrus Torrence

2024 - #60 Cole Bishop, #128 Ray Davis

 

For a GM who hasn't drafted in the top twenty spots in the last 6 drafts, Beane's record is not nearly as bad as you make it out to be.  

 

 

SoTier, for the record, you're one of my favorite posters.  I learn from your posts and respect your opinion - but I disagree in this case.

 

Every team has 22 starters so drafting starters means nothing.  What we want is difference makers.  There's no perfect metric for difference makers but let's use Pro Bowls as the criterion for lack of a better one.  And I mean initially being named to the Pro Bowl, not making the Pro Bowl as a replacement player because 12 other players turned it down.

 

In his 7 years as GM, Beane drafted 2 Bowlers (Josh, Edmunds).

 

In his 8 years as GM, Ron Wolf drafted 12 Pro Bowlers.

 

Wolf said that to build a SB team, you want to draft a Pro Bowl playmaker every year.  In fact, he averaged 1.5 per year.  Beane's far below that number. One year Wolf drafted 3 Pro Bowlers - more than Beane's drafted in his whole 7-year career.  

 

Beane drafts included Josh (super playmaker), some nice starters, and a bunch of duds.  There just haven't been enough playmakers.  

[Don Otreply]

3 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Here are my two hopes...

 

1) a lot of the misses were because McDermott has his metrics or whatever and had Beane pick who he felt would fit his system.

 

2) Either way, I hope bean leans into the draft advice of Graine and Gray, as well as the scouts. Find out what Brady, Carmichael and most importantly Leonhard needs, then look at the talent and suggest guys that fit.  Mostly they want position less players (to an extent) on Defense. And that does work, again to an extent because you cant put a 225lb speed guy on the DL in a 3-4. And yes I am being extreme with my example, but you get the point.

 

BPA at this point. If its a Guard, draft them. If its A WR draft them. Just upgrade the overall talent on this freaking team!

Yup, I said in a post, don’t remember which one, that imo Beane brought in the guys or types of guys Sean wanted, and when Sean had the brass to say he couldn’t win it all with the roster he in effect selected, Beane and Pegula got a bit pissed off, and rightly so, and the rest is history, now a defensive rebuild is happening, that is imo long over due, we need to draft guys that are above average talent and are eager to be coached up from there, I think we will be doing that and will be pleasantly surprised with the team in its upcoming new configuration, jmo…, 

[Dr. Who]

13 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

SoTier, for the record, you're one of my favorite posters.  I learn from your posts and respect your opinion - but I disagree in this case.

 

Every team has 22 starters so drafting starters means nothing.  What we want is difference makers.  There's no perfect metric for difference makers but let's use Pro Bowls as the criterion for lack of a better one.  And I mean initially being named to the Pro Bowl, not making the Pro Bowl as a replacement player because 12 other players turned it down.

 

In his 7 years as GM, Beane drafted 2 Bowlers (Josh, Edmunds).

 

In his 8 years as GM, Ron Wolf drafted 12 Pro Bowlers.

 

Wolf said that to build a SB team, you want to draft a Pro Bowl playmaker every year.  In fact, he averaged 1.5 per year.  Beane's far below that number. One year Wolf drafted 3 Pro Bowlers - more than Beane's drafted in his whole 7-year career.  

 

Beane drafts included Josh (super playmaker), some nice starters, and a bunch of duds.  There just haven't been enough playmakers.  

This is @GunnerBill's argument. It is what shows up in the playoffs. Beane is comfortable with a formula that gives one depth to sustain injuries, though it seems the last few years injuries still accumulate at key positions on D and doom our post-season. He needs to find a few elite difference makers in the draft. He has not shown even average proclivities in that regard, imo. Picking at the end of the round is not an excuse. Nine seasons ought to have some hits at a higher level apart from Josh Allen.

[pennstate10]

20 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Fans wanting to trade two 1sts or anything at this point for Maxx Crosby , let me remind you of something. He was picked in the 4th round.  4th.   NE drafted last or near to last for nearly 15 years and still made superbowls. We have the QB, start hitting on our own draft picks like they did for once.  

 

Trade down, its a deep draft that isn't top heavy. Get back our 2nd, pick up a 3rd or 4th and for once Hit on these guys.  All Pros can be found outside of round 1, you just got to be able to scout well and pick them.

This is a great idea!  
Draft only all pro players in every round!  Don’t draft any scrubs. 
 

Im a bit surprised Beane isn’t aware of this strategy. I’ll bet McD was holding him back. 
 

[SoTier]

21 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I agree wholeheartedly with your point of injuries crushing the defense.  But I stand by the claim that Whaley found more of McD's difference makers than Beane.

 

The list you provided, btw, only includes 2 All Pro selections (Johnson once and Milano once).  Oliver and Benford were never All Pro.  And Milano was a Whaley pick. So Beane has accounted for one second team All Pro in his 9 years as GM.  Not a great haul.

 

Hyde and Poyer also made All Pro teams during Beane's tenure, but they were acquired by Whaley.  Whaley also got us Tre White and Jerry Hughes.  

 

Josh Allen, James Cook, Taron Johnson, Wyatt Teller, and Ray Davis were all first or second team All Pro who were drafted by Beane.   Beane also traded the Bills' 2020 first round pick for Stefon Diggs who became a 2x All Pro for the Bills.

 

Tremaine Edmunds, Dawson Knox, and Dalton Kincaid are Pro Bowlers drafted by Beane.

 

The players that Beane drafted or traded a draft pick for who became  All Pros or Pro Bowlers is factual not opinion.  That Teller became an All Pro for the Browns doesn't change that he was drafted on Beane's watch.  You can fact check this data on Pro-football Reference.

 

 

 

[hondo in seattle]

32 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

This is @GunnerBill's argument. It is what shows up in the playoffs. Beane is comfortable with a formula that gives one depth to sustain injuries, though it seems the last few years injuries still accumulate at key positions on D and doom our post-season. He needs to find a few elite difference makers in the draft. He has not shown even average proclivities in that regard, imo. Picking at the end of the round is not an excuse. Nine seasons ought to have some hits at a higher level apart from Josh Allen.

 

Agreed.

 

I think the failure of our D in the playoffs is partly attributed to roster, partly to roster health.

 

There are no exotic schemes in the NFL.  There are a few different schemes that everyone runs.  McD's nickel, his base defense, works well enough in the regular season because of teamwork, communication, execution, and disguise.  But that breaks down in the playoffs because disguises don't fool elite QBs and elite OCs.  Even if they are fooled presnap, the QB knows how to adjust post snap.  So at that point it's just our guys versus their guys, and - in the playoffs - their guys are often better.

 

Beane needs to find playmakers who can win when the game becomes a boxing match instead of a chess match.  

[nosejob]

58 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

SoTier, for the record, you're one of my favorite posters.  I learn from your posts and respect your opinion - but I disagree in this case.

 

Every team has 22 starters so drafting starters means nothing.  What we want is difference makers.  There's no perfect metric for difference makers but let's use Pro Bowls as the criterion for lack of a better one.  And I mean initially being named to the Pro Bowl, not making the Pro Bowl as a replacement player because 12 other players turned it down.

 

In his 7 years as GM, Beane drafted 2 Bowlers (Josh, Edmunds).

 

In his 8 years as GM, Ron Wolf drafted 12 Pro Bowlers.

 

Wolf said that to build a SB team, you want to draft a Pro Bowl playmaker every year.  In fact, he averaged 1.5 per year.  Beane's far below that number. One year Wolf drafted 3 Pro Bowlers - more than Beane's drafted in his whole 7-year career.  

 

Beane drafts included Josh (super playmaker), some nice starters, and a bunch of duds.  There just haven't been enough playmakers.  

Well the other side of that argument is coaching. It seems like this team has always....at least with McD been reluctant to play or start rookies.

Unless it's no choice but to fill a hole or the talent was undeniable. They've even ruined a couple of young guys.

[Mr. WEO]

Yeah!! Stop drafting not well....MAN!!

[hondo in seattle]

7 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Josh Allen, James Cook, Taron Johnson, Wyatt Teller, and Ray Davis were all first or second team All Pro who were drafted by Beane.   Beane also traded the Bills' 2020 first round pick for Stefon Diggs who became a 2x All Pro for the Bills.

 

Tremaine Edmunds, Dawson Knox, and Dalton Kincaid are Pro Bowlers drafted by Beane.

 

The players that Beane drafted or traded a draft pick for who became  All Pros or Pro Bowlers is factual not opinion.  That Teller became an All Pro for the Browns doesn't change that he was drafted on Beane's watch.  You can fact check this data on Pro-football Reference.

 

 

 

 

That comment and discussion was about defensive All Pros.  So I'm not sure why you're bringing up James Cook and other offensive players. 

 

Beane has not acquired - by draft, trade, or free agency - many defensive playmakers.  The best defensive players during McD's tenure were largely Whaley guys like Hyde, Poyer, Milano, Hughes, and Tre.  As Whaley's guys aged out and were replaced by Beane guys, the defense regressed.  

 

I'm still waiting for Beane to find his Bruce Smith (HOF), Cornelius Bennet (5x Pro Bowl, 3x 1st team All Pro), Shane Conlan (3x Pro Bowl, 2x All Pro), Nate Odoms (2x Pro Bowl), Darryl Talley (2x Pro Bowl, All Pro, energizer bunny).  

[kitchen sink]

21 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

I don't know if I can trust Beane to make the right call on defense. He has drafted a ton of defense to this point and can't seem to put together anything good

I think you might be focusing to much on the misses, which everyone has, and not the hits.  

[ndirish1978]

Someone should have mentioned this strategy to Beane a couple years ago! 

[Low Positive]

4 minutes ago, kitchen sink said:

I think you might be focusing to much on the misses, which everyone has, and not the hits.  

It's something we do as sports fans as it relates to drafting and free agent signings. We focus on other teams' hits and obsess over our own team's misses. It's really illuminating to check other teams' full drafts and see how many misses they have. Every team misses more than they hit. 

[Green Lightning]

21 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Well, we have no other choice.

Spot on and the truth. Have a rant, then decide to look forward and not look back. Crushing this draft will be key.

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

This is @GunnerBill's argument. It is what shows up in the playoffs. Beane is comfortable with a formula that gives one depth to sustain injuries, though it seems the last few years injuries still accumulate at key positions on D and doom our post-season. He needs to find a few elite difference makers in the draft. He has not shown even average proclivities in that regard, imo. Picking at the end of the round is not an excuse. Nine seasons ought to have some hits at a higher level apart from Josh Allen.

 

Is exactly my argument. Cogently summarised if I may say so, sir. 

[GreggTX]

I agree with most of that, but I will be so disappointed if we don't draft an elite edge for the right side. Trade up if you have to, buy this is what will determine if we again make an early exit from the playoffs again. Chubb is not the answer here. Put Chubb on the left side.