What position will Groot play in Leonhard's 3-4?

[PrimeTime101]

20 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

We had zero pro bowlers on defense and we're still top 10 and two categories 

 

That and that was considered a bad year.. we had plenty of stats in the top five and even some things number one under Sean McDermott which is not easy to do 

 

The problem is we haven't had good enough players recently

we were top 10 in 2 categories? what 2 may i ask? 

 

And i ask because of this important fact.. 

 

Defensive Rushing DVOA: Ranked 31st according to FTN Fantasy, suggesting efficiency issues despite overall yardage rankings. I don't care if you like Fantasy or not. our rush defense was a bloody nightmare. That seems important to me when you play against top 10 defenses that are also good rushing teams.... 

 

 

Edited March 8 by PrimeTime101

[Buffalo716]

8 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

we were top 10 in 2 categories? what 2 may i ask? 

 

And i ask because of this important fact.. 

 

Defensive Rushing DVOA: Ranked 31st according to FTN Fantasy, suggesting efficiency issues despite overall yardage rankings. I don't care if you like Fantasy or not. our rush defense was a bloody nightmare. That seems important to me when you play against top 10 defenses that are also good rushing teams.... 

 

 

7th in total yards, 1 in passing yards against , 6th passing TDs against 12th total points

 

And they buckle down typically when they need to they held saquon Barkley in the Eagles to like 85 rushing yards they got better as the season went on

 

Without one pro bowler

Edited March 8 by Buffalo716

[PrimeTime101]

21 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

7th in total yards, 1 in passing yards against , 6th passing TDs against 12th total points

 

And they buckle down typically when they need to they held saquon Barkley in the Eagles to like 85 rushing yards they got better as the season went on

 

Without one pro bowler

all that means diddly when you cant stop the run

 

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

all that means diddly when you cant stop the run

 

We literally thoroughly outplayed the broncos they had a 80 yards rushing versus us that's not why we lost 

 

We lost because our offense unfortunately had four turnovers and regulation five including the entire game 

 

That takes your chances of winning any game and takes them down to like 10% if you have five turnovers 

 

The fact we were even in it is a testament to the player's heart and the coaching because the bills could have been up by 7 or 10 without those turnovers 

 

Josh Allen was crying after the game because it was there for the team and the offense coughed up the ball.. James Cook coughed it up going into field goal range 

 

Without four offensive turnovers the Bills win easily in regulation

[PrimeTime101]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

We literally thoroughly outplayed the broncos they had a 80 yards rushing versus us that's not why we lost 

 

We lost because our offense unfortunately had four turnovers and regulation five including the entire game 

 

That takes your chances of winning any game and takes them down to like 10% if you have five turnovers 

 

The fact we were even in it is a testament to the player's heart and the coaching because the bills could have been up by 7 or 10 without those turnovers 

 

Josh Allen was crying after the game because it was there for the team and the offense coughed up the ball.. James Cook coughed it up going into field goal range 

 

Without four offensive turnovers the Bills win easily in regulation

idk man.. you can take all your top stats and say yea.. we did great... till you look at one of the most important stats in football today outside of stopping the pass.. and that is stopping the run. So lets look at the whole picture yea? not just part of it? 

[Buffalo716]

26 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

idk man.. you can take all your top stats and say yea.. we did great... till you look at one of the most important stats in football today outside of stopping the pass.. and that is stopping the run. So lets look at the whole picture yea? not just part of it? 

McDermotts defense was willing to let teams run on a lite box because it's tough to commit to running for 60 minutes 

 

Also had defenses with McDermott where we were top three or top five overall.. 

 

McDermott has better take away stats than any coach besides Bill belichick in the NFL history coaching a defense through 15 years 

 

Nobody's perfect he has flaws.. he would rather play the long game because most coordinators don't have the commitment to run consistently for four quarters.. you might have 150 yards through three but in the fourth quarter when it's a tight game they put the ball in the hands of their quarterback because that's just what happens 

 

It really was playing chess when they were playing checkers.. and it was one of the things that helped the bills defense mold into this new modern version in the NFL 

 

Most teams don't have the patience to hand it off 35 times a game.. he did play a long game 

 

If you want to hand it off all game you're also going to cut down your possessions and keep it in a lower scoring game against Josh Allen which gives him the chance to put you away 

 

It is a calculated strategy that did work out over 9 years it just didn't bring a Super bowl.. but most coaches were not able to adjust and that's why we beat Andy Reed five times in the regular season because even him isn't patient enough to just keep running the ball

 

Lot of our postseason failures were due to having three four five starters injured and you can't go on the road in Arrowhead and win with four starters hurt

 

Like any NFL team when they win they typically play good when they lose they give up more points.. spagnola gave up 40 in the Super bowl and got gashed

Edited March 8 by Buffalo716

[Augie]

49 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

7th in total yards, 1 in passing yards against , 6th passing TDs against 12th total points

 

And they buckle down typically when they need to they held saquon Barkley in the Eagles to like 85 rushing yards they got better as the season went on

 

Without one pro bowler

 

It wasn’t a really bad defense……until the playoffs. 

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

It wasn’t a really bad defense……until the playoffs. 

In the playoffs he had seven or eight really good performances 

 

Cherry picking the losses is crazy because Steve spagnola gives up 32 points per game and his playoff losses with the 

 

Bill belichick gives up 27 points per game in his playoff losses 

 

Mike McCarthy gives up like 33 points per game in his last five playoff losses 

 

Cherry picking what they do in losses but ignoring what they do in wins also isn't the best measurement because most playoff coaches give up a good amount when they lose

 

Spagnola gives up 32 points per game in his Chiefs playoff losses.  McCarthy in his career gives up like 32 or 33 in his playoff losses.. belichick gives up like 27 in his playoff losses 

 

No coach is holding teams the 19 per game in playoff losses when they have a 15 game stretch to look at

 

Spagnola gave up 40 in the Super bowl

Edited March 8 by Buffalo716

[Augie]

21 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

In the playoffs he had seven or eight really good performances 

 

Cherry picking the losses is crazy because Steve spagnola gives up 32 points per game and his playoff losses with the 

 

Bill belichick gives up 27 points per game in his playoff losses 

 

Mike McCarthy gives up like 33 points per game in his last five playoff losses 

 

Cherry picking what they do in losses but ignoring what they do in wins also isn't the best measurement because most playoff coaches give up a good amount when they lose

 

Spagnola gives up 32 points per game in his Chiefs playoff losses.  McCarthy in his career gives up like 32 or 33 in his playoff losses.. belichick gives up like 27 in his playoff losses 

 

No coach is holding teams the 19 per game in playoff losses when they have a 15 game stretch to look at

 

Spagnola gave up 40 in the Super bowl

 

I wouldn’t have fired the guy, but the defense was not good enough in the playoffs. I’ve got to be honest about that. 

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I wouldn’t have fired the guy, but the defense was not good enough in the playoffs. I’ve got to be honest about that. 

Wasn't perfect but even the first 2 playoff games without stats at QB with TT AND young Allen , defense kept us in 

 

10 years is an eternity in NFL a new voice was needed but I wouldn't be surprised to see Sean still he very successful 

[Mikey152]

RE: the topic of the thread...

 

Who knows where Groot will wind up, really?  That said, I think it is reasonable to expect that he could play anything >2 tech depending on the situation. 

 

[Thurman#1]

On 3/9/2026 at 1:01 AM, SoonerBillsFan said:

I want a superbowl win. To do that we need a great defense.  Groot was drafted for McDermott defense.   I feel Groot is a liability in this defense unless his pass rush skills greatly improve.

 

 

Virtually nobody who knows the Leonhard defense agrees with you about that.

 

He'll fit very well. My guess is more 5T on pass downs and outside the DE against the run.

[Thurman#1]

20 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

7th in total yards, 1 in passing yards against , 6th passing TDs against 12th total points

 

And they buckle down typically when they need to they held saquon Barkley in the Eagles to like 85 rushing yards they got better as the season went on

 

Without one pro bowler

 

 

And with two of their most important players, Oliver and Hoecht, out for the season, and Hairston looking really good but just not playing much because of injuries. Lots of defensive injuries this year, but near the end of the year they were really improving and playing better.

 

 

[Thurman#1]

19 hours ago, Augie said:

 

It wasn’t a really bad defense……until the playoffs. 

 

 

Again, the defense allowed 24 points against the Broncos. The two turnovers bracketing halftime deep in the Bills own territory and both producing field goals were the difference in the game. Those two field goals were all on the offense.

 

And the Jags also scored 24, four points below their season average. The Jags, despite being around 5th in scoring, didn't look great in that game.

 

24 points isn't awful defense by any means, and that's what THE DEFENSE allowed in each game. The Broncos scored 33, but again, those two field goals were on the offense just about 100%, and the other three points came in overtime, and the game would not have reached overtime if our offense hadn't gifted Denver with those two field goals.

 

And if you are referring not just to this year but to the whole McDermott tenure, the D was really good in the playoffs, except against the Chiefs. You can throw in the Cincy loss too, but the whole team appeared absolutely emotionally drained in that game.

[Augie]

6 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Again, the defense allowed 24 points against the Broncos. The two turnovers bracketing halftime deep in the Bills own territory and both producing field goals were the difference in the game. Those two field goals were all on the offense.

 

And the Jags also scored 24, four points below their season average. The Jags, despite being around 5th in scoring, didn't look great in that game.

 

24 points isn't awful defense by any means, and that's what THE DEFENSE allowed in each game. The Broncos scored 33, but again, those two field goals were on the offense just about 100%, and the other three points came in overtime, and the game would not have reached overtime if our offense hadn't gifted Denver with those two field goals.

 

And if you are referring not just to this year but to the whole McDermott tenure, the D was really good in the playoffs, except against the Chiefs. You can throw in the Cincy loss too, but the whole team appeared absolutely emotionally drained in that game.

 

So we were pretty good except for against the teams that knocked us out of the playoffs most years. Got it. 

 

Look, I wouldn’t have fired McD, and I’m not just attacking him since he’s gone. There were times we were so soft it made even me crazy. The irony is, if the refs get the Cooks catch correct, there’s a very good chance we would have been in the SB. But they didn’t, and we weren’t, and now we are where we are. The defense isn’t the reason we lost the Denver game, our turnovers were the reason. But that doesn’t mean I trusted the D in the playoffs. 

 

Like it or not, we are starting over and I’m looking forward to a new look on defense. 

[kickedface]

i think he will be trade bait, unless hes a different player in the new d

[PrimeTime101]

3 hours ago, Augie said:

 

So we were pretty good except for against the teams that knocked us out of the playoffs most years. Got it. 

 

Look, I wouldn’t have fired McD, and I’m not just attacking him since he’s gone. There were times we were so soft it made even me crazy. The irony is, if the refs get the Cooks catch correct, there’s a very good chance we would have been in the SB. But they didn’t, and we weren’t, and now we are where we are. The defense isn’t the reason we lost the Denver game, our turnovers were the reason. But that doesn’t mean I trusted the D in the playoffs. 

 

Like it or not, we are starting over and I’m looking forward to a new look on defense. 

to the bolded..  if your going to complain about this and we would of making it to the SB then you better complain about our QB getting heavily harassed all first half and not putting your QB in the position near our end zone and not just kneeling the ball. Instead of just blaming the refs about one play lets be realistic that we had 5 total turnovers to their 1.  I get it. Refs screwed us on a play or 2. But we lost cause of that turnover battle more then the refs missing a play or 2. 

[Richard Noggin]

On 3/8/2026 at 6:22 PM, Buffalo716 said:

McDermotts defense was willing to let teams run on a lite box because it's tough to commit to running for 60 minutes 

 

Also had defenses with McDermott where we were top three or top five overall.. 

 

McDermott has better take away stats than any coach besides Bill belichick in the NFL history coaching a defense through 15 years 

 

Nobody's perfect he has flaws.. he would rather play the long game because most coordinators don't have the commitment to run consistently for four quarters.. you might have 150 yards through three but in the fourth quarter when it's a tight game they put the ball in the hands of their quarterback because that's just what happens 

 

It really was playing chess when they were playing checkers.. and it was one of the things that helped the bills defense mold into this new modern version in the NFL 

 

Most teams don't have the patience to hand it off 35 times a game.. he did play a long game 

 

If you want to hand it off all game you're also going to cut down your possessions and keep it in a lower scoring game against Josh Allen which gives him the chance to put you away 

 

It is a calculated strategy that did work out over 9 years it just didn't bring a Super bowl.. but most coaches were not able to adjust and that's why we beat Andy Reed five times in the regular season because even him isn't patient enough to just keep running the ball

 

Lot of our postseason failures were due to having three four five starters injured and you can't go on the road in Arrowhead and win with four starters hurt

 

Like any NFL team when they win they typically play good when they lose they give up more points.. spagnola gave up 40 in the Super bowl and got gashed

 

My concern with this perspective on forcing opposing offenses to run it and shorten the game is: that knowingly keeps Josh Allen on the sideline!

 

I agree with you that McD's plan was to invite teams to run the ball, assuming most of them won't stick with it and/or the Bills offense will score enough to make it impossible. 

 

But in practice, and basically by design: it resulted in long stretches of the Bills offense on the sideline. That's a ridiculous design when you have QB17. 

[JP51]

On 3/8/2026 at 12:01 PM, SoonerBillsFan said:

I want a superbowl win. To do that we need a great defense.  Groot was drafted for McDermott defense.   I feel Groot is a liability in this defense unless his pass rush skills greatly improve.

and we are paying him ALOT of money...  Oliver, Groot, Carter and Sanders (this assumes Jones is gone) I literally wonder what they change too in a 3/4 they have been playing these roles for so long, like I have no idea how Groot can run and cover an RB or TE...  I am not imaging he is going to be stellar at it...  very interesting reimagination of the Defense... I almost thing until we have the right personnel that there will be flip flopping between 3-4 and 4-3...  time will tell... I am interested in Leonhards plan though... 

[Thurman#1]

On 3/10/2026 at 3:31 AM, Augie said:

 

So we were pretty good except for against the teams that knocked us out of the playoffs most years. Got it. 

 

Look, I wouldn’t have fired McD, and I’m not just attacking him since he’s gone. There were times we were so soft it made even me crazy. The irony is, if the refs get the Cooks catch correct, there’s a very good chance we would have been in the SB. But they didn’t, and we weren’t, and now we are where we are. The defense isn’t the reason we lost the Denver game, our turnovers were the reason. But that doesn’t mean I trusted the D in the playoffs. 

 

Like it or not, we are starting over and I’m looking forward to a new look on defense. 

 

 

 

 

Come on. The teams that knocked us out of the playoffs that the defense played badly and cost us the game were Kansas City, Kansas City and Kansas City. That is not a plural teams, it's one team, a team whose record in recent championships shows clearly that very few defenses could stop them.

 

We were really good on defense in the playoffs, though not so much this year, except against Kansas City. If you feel comfortable blaming the defense against Cincy when the offense put up ten points, you've got a stronger stomach than me. The whole was emotionally drained after the Hamlin thing and everything else that happened that year. They looked it, and they said it after the game.

 

Agree with you that if the refs get the Cooks catch right we're probably in the SB. But even that wasn't necessary. Only 24 points were scored in that Denver game that were a result of our D. You said it, it was the turnovers. Should've been a 30 - 24 final in regulation without those two field goals bookending halftime where zero responsibility rested on our defense. Particularly that awful Allen fumble before half where he held the ball in his outstretched arm so that a slap to the wrist that didn't even hit the ball caused a fumble. Without that play, we win.

 

I mean, fair enough you didn't trust the D in the playoffs this year, but they actually played pretty solid. Good enough to win both games and I was very confident they could have stopped N.E. if we'd played them.

 

Indeed, new scheme. I'm hopeful, but not confident. Looking forward to it is too strong, for me anyway, but I certainly hope you've got the right POV on it.