What position will Groot play in Leonhard's 3-4?

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

I think people also have to remember. Beane does a good job at filling positions pre draft so we have wiggle room when draft comes to attempt to find better young talent for future years. Point in case. Cole Bishop. People need time to grow when they hit the speed of the nfl.. SO i do not expect such a major hole on this team where come draft time.. We have to get this position or that position. 

 

That being said lol.. There will always be top 3 positions we HOPE to upgrade through the first 4 rounds of draft for our future. and maybe a golden nugget later. 

Agreed 💯 

[noacls]

I don't think Groot has the athletic ability to play OLB  and he will be exposed if has to drop into coverage at all. His 3 cone drill and shuttle are very pedestrian for a DE let alone OLB. A 300lb Hoect and 290lb Oliver had better agility and change of direction skills and times. 

Best bet is to try and use him as the 80s 49ers teams used Fred Dean, Charles Haley, and Tim Harris. Which is a hybrid pass rushing role from the weak side

Edited March 8 by noacls

[SoonerBillsFan]

45 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

lets be clear.. i defend my pukes. always.. 1000%

 

you really want that much dead cap trading him? This is crazy.. so you have to do the next best thing. USE the guy. USE him where its needed.. Obvious run downs just for starters... and and some first downs when teams trend running on first downs.  Every player does not have to play 60% of the snaps all the time...  HORRIBLE take.. Trade? come on man... 

I want a superbowl win. To do that we need a great defense.  Groot was drafted for McDermott defense.   I feel Groot is a liability in this defense unless his pass rush skills greatly improve.

[13 Seconds to Mars]

Wherever he can be more consistent and not disappear for 3-5 game stretches. Looking at his career #’s, Rousseau appears to be solid, but most of his sacks come in bunches. He‘ll have a couple games where he will just completely take over and then crickets the following week. That’s what frustrates me to no end. 

23 minutes ago, noacls said:

I don't think Groot has the athletic ability to play OLB  and he will be exposed if has to drop into coverage at all. His 3 cone drill and shuttle are very pedestrian for a DE let alone OLB. A 300lb Hoect and 290lb Oliver had better agility and change of direction skills and times. 

Best bet is to try and use him as the 80s 49ers teams used Fred Dean, Charles Haley, and Tim Harris. Which is a hybrid pass rushing role from the weak side

Rousseau could be a monster 3-4 DE. His run stopping is elite. 

[noacls]

2 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Wherever he can be more consistent and not disappear for 3-5 game stretches. Looking at his career #’s, Rousseau appears to be solid, but most of his sacks come in bunches. He‘ll have a couple games where he will just completely take over and then crickets the following week. That’s what frustrates me to no end. 

Rousseau could be a monster 3-4 DE. His run stopping is elite. 

I agree. Ask him to add 20-25lbs and he would be the perfect end in a pentrating 3-4 defense. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

29 minutes ago, noacls said:

I don't think Groot has the athletic ability to play OLB  and he will be exposed if has to drop into coverage at all. His 3 cone drill and shuttle are very pedestrian for a DE let alone OLB. A 300lb Hoect and 290lb Oliver had better agility and change of direction skills and times. 

Best bet is to try and use him as the 80s 49ers teams used Fred Dean, Charles Haley, and Tim Harris. Which is a hybrid pass rushing role from the weak side

Hoecht isn't 300 pounds, he's about 260.

[MrEpsYtown]

I think he is a 5 tech. I think want your outside linebackers to be speed rushers who can cover some and things like that. However there are guys like Danielle Hunter who are similar in size and play style to Groot and they play outside. 
 

In terms of what’s best for him? He’s never been a quick first step speed rusher outside. Playing in that 5 tech and 4i will give him the opportunity to wreck havoc in the box. But it is an interesting development to watch. 

[Victory Formation]

I think he will line up at LE just as he lined up for us over the years.. And I think he will play OLB/EDGE at times as well.. Keep in mind that Groot played WR and Safety in high school and only converted to DE in college..

[Pecker]

I can’t recall a single play in his career, where Groot displayed the necessary athleticism, that is required to play OLB.  Can anyone envision him covering Breece hall out of the backfield? Or Kelsay going down the seam? 

He is also a bull rusher, with no speed or bend to get around the outside. Two things necessary to be effective at OLB.

 

Meanwhile Groot is at his best being stout against the run, using his length and strength to anchor.  Moving him inside, where he can use that length against Gs rather than Ts, would make the most of his best attributes and hide his weaknesses.

 

that said I fully expect the bills to play him at OLB. 

Edited March 8 by Pecker

[noacls]

16 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Hoecht isn't 300 pounds, he's about 260.

When he tested for the Combine he was and that's were the athletic test numbers come from. 

[NeverOutNick]

He’s not fooling anyone in coverage. He can put on weight on his huge frame and be a fine 5 tech imo 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

I think with Groot, the simple answer is the correct one. What has he done in the NFL?

 

Play DE where he has solid sack production and has been an elite edge setter. He has also dropped into coverage consistently for a 43 DE.

 

This translates to OLB in a 34, the OLB position with the less coverage responsibility (I've been told this is the SAM OLB)

 

Groot has also slid inside to DT to rush the passer in his career, situationally, from the 3-tech. This should translate to 5-tech, on passing down situations. 

[NewEra]

52 minutes ago, noacls said:

I don't think Groot has the athletic ability to play OLB  and he will be exposed if has to drop into coverage at all. His 3 cone drill and shuttle are very pedestrian for a DE let alone OLB. A 300lb Hoect and 290lb Oliver had better agility and change of direction skills and times. 

Best bet is to try and use him as the 80s 49ers teams used Fred Dean, Charles Haley, and Tim Harris. Which is a hybrid pass rushing role from the weak side

The key to this is keeping him out of coverage as much as possible.  Pick your spots for it with hopes that disguised pressure from other gaps can get home before he’s taken advantage of

33 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

I want a superbowl win. To do that we need a great defense.  Groot was drafted for McDermott defense.   I feel Groot is a liability in this defense unless his pass rush skills greatly improve.

Adding 20M in dead cap is might hurt our chances to win a super bowl

[TheyCallMeAndy]

3 minutes ago, noacls said:

When he tested for the Combine he was and that's were the athletic test numbers come from. 

He was a DT at the combine, his data is outdated. He stated when he signed here he has been playing at 260-265 since moving to 34 OLB (Rams) and DE (Bills).

 

[noacls]

6 minutes ago, NewEra said:

The key to this is keeping him out of coverage as much as possible.  Pick your spots for it with hopes that disguised pressure from other gaps can get home before he’s taken advantage of

Yes I agree but what the other teams offense does effects that a lot. Motion and backs releasing out of the backfield can change keys and responsibilities.  A good offense will try to put him in a bad s

Edited March 8 by noacls

[noacls]

6 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

He was a DT at the combine, his data is outdated. He stated when he signed here he has been playing at 260-265 since moving to 34 OLB (Rams) and DE (Bills).

 

This is not rocket surgery, not very difficult to understand my post. Stop being obtuse. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

1 minute ago, noacls said:

This is not rocket surgery, not very difficult to understand my post. Stop being obtuse. 

I totally misread your original post, my bad! 

[noacls]

Just now, TheyCallMeAndy said:

I totally misread your original post, my bad! 

Love you✌️

[NewEra]

10 minutes ago, ***** said:

I can’t recall a single play in his career, where Groot displayed the necessary athleticism, that is required to play OLB.  Can anyone envision him covering Breece hall out of the backfield? Or Kelsay going down the seam? 

He is also a bull rusher, with no speed or bend to get around the outside. Two things necessary to be effective at OLB.

 

Meanwhile Groot is at his best being stout against the run, using his length and strength to anchor.  Moving him inside, where he can use that length against Gs rather than Ts, would make the most of his best attributes and hide his weaknesses.

 

that said I fully expect the bills to play him at OLB. 

the plan will likely be to keep him out of man coverage and employ him in a short zone.  I don’t see Leonhard putting him in a position to cover anyone down the seem.  
 

James Harrison, Joey Porter and Chandler Jones were average in terms of burst off the line.  Zadarious Smith, Preston Smith, Matt Judon, Lamar Woodley are some other examples.  Groot likely wouldn’t be in coverage very much, similar to those players.  

[Beck Water]

3 hours ago, Flipnmi said:

In the past weeks, I've read some strong opinions that Groot will play the 5T in Leonhard's defense and others that he will be an OLB. He's reportedly been public with his preference to play OLB, but based on his ability to inside on passing downs for McDermott, the 5T spot also seems like a natural fit. I can see it going either way or perhaps situationally some of both, since versatility seems to be the new mantra. The current roster is clearly deeper in 5T candidates, but that may change with free agency and the draft, so I'm hopeful that need is not a factor. I don't believe he's a tweener that doesn't fit in either position, it's just a matter of where he fits best and can make the greatest impact in.

What's your opinion (prediction) and why?

 

Hey!  I would recommend to you @HoofHearted's post where he actually diagrams several fronts that will be used in Leonard's defense and discusses how to map the current players into those various fronts.

 

I think the short answer is, Leonard's defense is not likely to fix on an almost invariant player personnel grouping as McDermott's "All Nickle, All the Time, Pressure from a 4 Man Front" philosphy did , so Groot's roles are likely to vary.  But Groot may be a bit of a "jack of all trades master of none" in Leonard's D
 

 

Edited March 8 by Beck Water