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Posted

I don't have any statistics to back this up, but I've believed for many years now that ACL tears take a season PLUS to get back to being a good player (assuming they were a good player pre-injury). I.e., almost anytime in the season that they get the injury, the next season is a wasted season for them.

 

So, if I'm correct, Hoecht will be useless all next season as will Shavers and Davis (yes, I know Davis is a free agent and not a Bill as of now). Of course Shavers/Davis were injured at the end of the year and Hoecht being injured in the first half of the season means that there's a better chance that late next season Hoecht will be good. Just imo if he sucks all next season don't consider him washed up, wait until the 2027 season to make that conclusion.

Posted
12 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

If Gabe Davis is healthy or not, do we really want to resign him?  He is awfully slow, even when healthy.  Shavers has some upside.  But our receiving group other than Shakir were bottom of the league last year.  Not sure there were any groups collectively as bad as ours.  

 

Who do you really want back other than Shakir?  Maybe Cooks on a very receivable contract.  But his hands suck.  And he has lost a step or two.  Shavers?  When healthy he is a good blocker.  But is he even a #4 receiver on most teams?  

 

Palmer Coleman and Samuel.  Ouch!!

 

No one is signing Gabe to start the year.  Maybe late in the season someone will pick him up.

Posted
10 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

I don't think you can just look at a player and say he is a "WR4 at best" and decide he isn't that important. You have to look at how he is used and how many aspects of the game he was effecting. He was extremely important in the run game, they often would move him inside and have him blocking DE's and LB's in tight formations because of his size and he did it very well. He was also a core ST player that did a lot there. And he was open quite a bit. 

 

This is not your "normal" WR4, he was a increasingly a key player for the way the BILLS OPERATE THEIR OFFENSE, especially by the end of the yearIt doesn't matter how he would have been used on other teams, if he would have been relegated to ST duty only or not even make the roster. For the BILLS, and BILLS ALONE, he was a very important player.

 

From the TB game on, he was second only behind Shakir in snap count percentage for WR's on offense, and  he wasn't that far behind.  You want to know how important the Bills felt he was? He played a total of 4 snaps in the Jets season finale game.

 

Have to add to that in spite of what many posters here feel, no team can afford 5 great WR's so you need someone like a Shavers on the team.  In fact you need a shavers type at every position group.

Posted
11 hours ago, SCBills said:

Honestly think you have to operate this off-season like none of them are available in 2026. 
 

Shavers is a nice story, but he’s a WR4 at best.  Davis probably won’t play next year.  
 

Hoecht and Strong, if available, are nice pieces to have but Strong may/may not ever play again.. not sure if we’ll know before the Draft?  Hoecht coming off an Achilles could be a freak and look great, ready to go Week 1 or could start the year on PUP, we don’t see him until Week 8 or so and he’s not the same guy all year. 
 

Cant really see any of those guys factoring into offseason decisions too heavily.   Hoecht and Strong being guys where it’s a pleasant suprise if they’re available and look good to go at some point in 2026. 

regrettably I think SC is right on target here

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Posted
12 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

I've stated from the first day they tested positive they should have cut ties with both PED cheats. Trent Murphy was a useless PED cheat too. I'm not naive to think they are the only ones. But they got caught and Beane should have pulled the contracts of both. 

Hoecht played 6 quarters. He brought energy no doubt. But I have extreme doubts he can play at a decent level coming off an Achilles tear and no longer on PEDs. 

Cut him and move on

 

Ok — so, first, and again — Beane knew about Hoecht’s pending suspension before he signed him.  So Beane wasn’t concerned.  And before the injury Hoecht looked like everything we had hoped.  I’m glad you’re so prescient that you already know he won’t return to form.  Good on you.

 

Posted
17 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

No one is signing Gabe to start the year.  Maybe late in the season someone will pick him up.

Maybe you can be his agent, and drum up some interest in Gabe when he gets healthy.  Its just too bad he has no speed and/or explosiveness.  Could there be two receivers less alike then Gabe and JSN?  LOL

Posted
On 2/10/2026 at 11:17 AM, Big Turk said:

 

Those Achilles repairs have gotten much better with faster recovery times as the procedure Rodgers had has now been widely accepted as the best way to go about it. Much faster recovery time and much faster return to normal baseline performance.

Baseline being the operative word here 😇

7 hours ago, eball said:

 

Ok — so, first, and again — Beane knew about Hoecht’s pending suspension before he signed him.  So Beane wasn’t concerned.  And before the injury Hoecht looked like everything we had hoped.  I’m glad you’re so prescient that you already know he won’t return to form.  Good on you.

 

It's highly unlikely next season though , isn't it ?

Posted
On 2/10/2026 at 11:20 AM, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Shavers was a nice story Assuming they are committed to keeping Coleman for another year, a decent draft, and a FA or two he is probably not making the final 53 even if healthy. He will be PUP and depending on how draft and FA work out may be an injury settlement release. If they move Coleman in the off season then Shavers has a good chance to be mid-season call up from PUP.

 

Hoecht you can also pencil in for PUP. Best case he is a contributor in December.  I'd be fine cutting the PED cheat if it saves any money. They should have gotten out of the contract as soon as he tested positive. 

 

Strong will be lucky to play again and that is probably 2027 not this year. 

 

Will be interesting to see what they do at  Center. McGovern played hurt most of the year with elbow and maybe shoulder issues.  He is probably a cap casualty. Time to see VanPran or Anderson step up. 

 

Then there is Palmer. Beane spoke high of him in the game plan where he got hurt. Atlanta game I think. Should not be a long term injury. He would be acceptable WR2 for another year. 

 

Bass should be healthy.  I'd shed his salary.  A little under $4M in cap savings. You can get Prater or a rookie on much less. 

 

Josh, Ed O, and Hairston should be 100% by OTA.

 

Kincaid is the biggest question mark of the bunch. Really need him to be a contributor and stay healthy.  Hope they are making correct decision to not do surgery now.  I don't know much about torn PCLs. 

 

Am I missing anyone?

 

 

 

Nice summary, but I dont agree entirely with the commentary.

 

1)  Shavers.  Uncomplicated ACLs heal very well these days.  But Shavers is a WR4-6; not a huge impact.

2)  Hoecht.  In the 6 or so quarters he played, he was one of Bills top 3 defenders.  Achilles injuries are much more variable in the healing process. But he is the highest impact of the injured players.

3)  Strong.  Who knows how good he is, or exactly what his injury is.  Complete unknown.

4) I didnt know McG was seriously injured this year.  He played the entire season, and played well.  

5)  Palmer played one good half this year.  He wasnt outstanding before injuries.  I'm guessing he recovers completely, but seems to be a WR3-4.

6)  Bass.  Given that I dont understand his injury, I have no idea how well he recovers.  Was a good but not outstanding kicker previously.

7)  Kincaid.  This may be the worst of the bunch.  When healthy, he is one of the most important players on offense. PCL tears can be managed nonsurgically (think CMC) with good outcomes.  It seems that Kincaids is becoming chronic though.  I think he needs to go through intensive rehab for a coupel months; if no improvement then surgical repair.  Or maybe Bills decide he's already had the intensive rehab and go straight to surgery.

  • Agree 1
Posted
On 2/10/2026 at 10:42 AM, Don Otreply said:

Those guys you mention like Shavers and Hoecht etc, will heal up, but won’t be their former selves until late next season and very possibly the following season, remember, there is a big difference between healed from an injury, and being in able to perform at pre injury levels, lots of folk seem to not wrap their heads around this actuality. 

Yeah, I think it will be similar to Milano this year. He started rounding into form about halfway through the season. That what I expect from Hoecht and Shavers based on the timing of their injuries. Shavers may end up just sitting all year or mainly playing special teams since he was injured at the end of the year. If Davis is retained, he probably sits all year on IR. 

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Posted
3 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

Maybe you can be his agent, and drum up some interest in Gabe when he gets healthy.  Its just too bad he has no speed and/or explosiveness.  Could there be two receivers less alike then Gabe and JSN?  LOL

 

Maybe.

Posted
On 2/10/2026 at 11:00 AM, Jerome007 said:

It happened in week 6. So, hard to know when he'll come back. He was a force for those 6 quarters he played. That D could have got the Bills to the Superbowl... Hopefully he is full strenght by  mid -season

Week 9 actually.  He was still suspended in week 6.  

Posted
On 2/10/2026 at 11:41 AM, DapperCam said:

Landon Jackson is another guy who was supposed to be depth and tore his MCL and PCL at the beginning of November getting rolled up on in the pile.

 

I’m not sure what recovery time is for that.

What I have read is 3 to 6 months for normal activities, rehab and 9 to 12 to be ready for sports.  This is very unfortunate as I think he might have been a much better fit for the new defense.  

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