The big change in Leonard's defense is deeper than the scheme

[PoundingDog]

Cover 1 guys have recording of Jim Leonard's coaching seminars. Sounds like he's more about arming players with knowledge - what the opponent likes to do, and add some specifics to a sound base for the opponent --- not the comlex Rex Ryan's checks upon checks stuff. So schematically make it simple but let the players adjust between the white lines.

 

This is very different from what McDermott's defense is where every play is scripted out precisely. Leonard was able to do his stuff in Wisconsin. We'll see if it works in NFL. You'll need all players dedicated to watch films and study --- I know McGovern said most D-Lineman in NFL don't even watch films.

 

 

 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

13 minutes ago, PoundingDog said:

Cover 1 guys have recording of Jim Leonard's coaching seminars. Sounds like he's more about arming players with knowledge - what the opponent likes to do, and add some specifics to a sound base for the opponent --- not the comlex Rex Ryan's checks upon checks stuff. So schematically make it simple but let the players adjust between the white lines.

 

This is very different from what McDermott's defense is where every play is scripted out precisely. Leonard was able to do his stuff in Wisconsin. We'll see if it works in NFL. You'll need all players dedicated to watch films and study --- I know McGovern said most D-Lineman in NFL don't even watch films.

 

 

 

 

Rex's defenses at one point worked well.  But then offenses figured them out, so Rex made changes.  The problem then was his defense became so complicated that the players couldn't figure it out anymore.

[US Egg]

2 hours ago, PoundingDog said:

I know McGovern said most D-Lineman in NFL don't even watch films.

Wouldn’t put too much stock in that or think it a concern.

[PoundingDog]

I don’t think McGovern’s words to mean defensive lineman does not watch film at all. I believe almost all of them do but like Kyle William once said, not much hiding directly across the trenches, so DE/DT mostly watch techniques, as in how to beat the guy directly in front of you. What I’m reading from the discussion of Leonard’s philosophy is he wants everyone to understand the whole picture, as in understanding what the offensive play goal is and what our attacking call is, and adjust accordingly what my role is. The result, if executed properly (assuming practiced properly before in camp or game week), may look fairly complicated play to play but it is simple on the play call. 

[hondo in seattle]

Thanks for posting!  Good listen!

 

This all sounds great and I hate being a Negative Nancy but it is worth pointing out that Denver’s pass D wasn’t as good as the Bills despite all our injuries and Josh didn’t have a problem moving the ball against them when he wasn’t gifting them the ball.  

[JP51]

What I noticed and or perceived with our defense... and offense for that matter... for the past couple of years was the lack of understanding, game planning, etc... in the first half of games for the opponent... very successful at adjustments we played much better in the 2nd half typically, but not having a defined understanding of your opponent and their tendencies and trying to plan for them early in games either was non existent  or poorly done...  anything that our coach does to create a better awareness with more information etc... would be welcome... 

[Mat68]

Possible.  Overall, a willingness and ability to get more out of the young talent will in a way accomplish this.  

[Kirby Jackson]

I’m off the belief that any time a player is trusting what they see, they play faster. You take away that “I’m afraid to make a mistake” mentality. Also, when in doubt, atheletes will generally make the aggressive choice. If they are going to be wrong it’s “they tried to jump a route instead of playing off” or they “overpursued trying to make a play.” I’ve wanted more aggression and playing downhill for years so it’s a welcome change for me. My basketball coach in high school preached “errors of commission not omission.” That’s what I want here. It’s the anti-McDermott in a way. 

[JP51]

15 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’m off the belief that any time a player is trusting what they see, they play faster. You take away that “I’m afraid to make a mistake” mentality. Also, when in doubt, atheletes will generally make the aggressive choice. If they are going to be wrong it’s “they tried to jump a route instead of playing off” or they “overpursued trying to make a play.” I’ve wanted more aggression and playing downhill for years so it’s a welcome change for me. My basketball coach in high school preached “errors of commission not omission.” That’s what I want here. It’s the anti-McDermott in a way. 

I agree here...  and besides size mismatch, I wonder if this is not a contributory factor for our pursuit and inability to get off blocks...  tackling is another issue... 

[BeyondTheProcess]

McD's defense was dependent on playing from in front, with a lead.   Once you had a lead, then the blitzes and disguised coverages took over and the game was ours.   Much less effective during the season against top 10 teams (and also esp during the year end tournament) .   Very effective approach, unless you are trying to win 4 consecutive games vs top10 competition in a single elimination tournament format.   

 

We'll see how the Leonhard approach improves on this in next year's tournament.   You'll get a first look as to whether it works vs top10 teams during the season.  

[Robert Paulson]

42 minutes ago, JP51 said:

What I noticed and or perceived with our defense... and offense for that matter... for the past couple of years was the lack of understanding, game planning, etc... in the first half of games for the opponent... very successful at adjustments we played much better in the 2nd half typically, but not having a defined understanding of your opponent and their tendencies and trying to plan for them early in games either was non existent  or poorly done...  anything that our coach does to create a better awareness with more information etc... would be welcome... 

McDermott played vanilla for the first drive or 2 which effectively spotted the opponents points. 

 

Once he saw what they were doing he adjusted.

 

If needed in Q4 he would actually get aggressive and blitz etc. Pissed me off we never started the game aggressively.

[JP51]

5 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

McDermott played vanilla for the first drive or 2 which effectively spotted the opponents points. 

 

Once he saw what they were doing he adjusted.

 

If needed in Q4 he would actually get aggressive and blitz etc. Pissed me off we never started the game aggressively.

So I am 100% with you... and I am fine with not being Blitzburgh... but you have Josh Allen... if you get beat because you are aggressive with a quick hit... so be it.. its better than watching your defense slowly bleed out on 6 minute drive after 7 minute drive over and over...  I never understood it... 

[Xerx]

52 minutes ago, JP51 said:

What I noticed and or perceived with our defense... and offense for that matter... for the past couple of years was the lack of understanding, game planning, etc... in the first half of games for the opponent... very successful at adjustments we played much better in the 2nd half typically, but not having a defined understanding of your opponent and their tendencies and trying to plan for them early in games either was non existent  or poorly done...  anything that our coach does to create a better awareness with more information etc... would be welcome... 

 

I think this is part of the philosophy change in "They have to play the Buffalo Bills"

 

It's felt like we have started games like many boxing("wrestling") matches and a feeling out process and then we react to what they are doing on the field. Instead of dictating the terms

[Kirby Jackson]

46 minutes ago, Xerx said:

 

I think this is part of the philosophy change in "They have to play the Buffalo Bills"

 

It's felt like we have started games like many boxing("wrestling") matches and a feeling out process and then we react to what they are doing on the field. Instead of dictating the terms

To add to this, the Bills don’t need to grind it out with teams. If they’re playing downhill they will have more turnovers. They will have more sacks. They’ll draw more holding calls. They’ll probably give up more big plays too.
 

That’s the trade off that they always should have been making -a flaw in McDermott’s philosophy. If the Bills get a few stops a game, they should win. I envision an offense that attacks and leads the league in scoring. I think it’ll be the best offense we have seen yet from the Bills. Teams will be playing from behind and be one dimensional. The Bills will be attacking on defense knowing that opponents can’t run. They just have to make some plays to be the perfect fit next to our offense. 

Edited February 2 by Kirby Jackson

[JP51]

15 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

To add to this, the Bills don’t need to grind it out with teams. If they’re playing downhill they will have more turnovers. They will have more sacks. They’ll draw more holding calls. They’ll probably give up more big plays too.
 

That’s the trade off that they always should have been making a flaw in McDermott’s philosophy. If the Bills get a few stops a game, they should win. I envision an offense that attacks and leads the league in scoring. I think it’ll be the best offense we have seen yet from the Bills. Teams will be playing from behind and be one dimensional. The Bills will be attacking on defense knowing that opponents can’t run. They jus have to make some plays to be the perfect fit next to our offense. 

agreed, I have always said, you have Josh Allen, not Mac Jones... you can withstand a big play... bottom line, reactionary passive teams probably are not winning it all... aggressive, dictate the tone types of teams typically will... I would prefer to go down swinging than watch the defense slowly bleed out on the field for an entire game until we decide we need to be aggressive. 

[KHAN]

18 minutes ago, JP51 said:

So I am 100% with you... and I am fine with not being Blitzburgh... but you have Josh Allen... if you get beat because you are aggressive with a quick hit... so be it.. its better than watching your defense slowly bleed out on 6 minute drive after 7 minute drive over and over...  I never understood it... 

It's funny how the cycle repeated itself. Under Levy, with the K Gun in it's prime, we played a bend but don't break defense that often gave up lots of time of possession even even if eventually making a stop or holding them to a FG. And that team had HOF players.

I was constantly frustrated that we didn't play ultra aggressive on defense and either make the stop, or give up a score quickly to get the ball back to the offense asap. They could have averaged 40 pts a game if they got the ball more often.

 

But that was Levi's  and unfortunately McDermotts philosophy. It won a lot of games in the regular season where most teams aren't as good as you. But ultimately failed at the most important times because the best teams can put together long drives ending in consistent points.

 

We've got Josh with some prime years left. Let's be aggressive.

[JP51]

1 minute ago, KHAN said:

It's funny how the cycle repeated itself. Under Levy, with the K Gun in it's prime, we played a bend but don't break defense that often gave up lots of time of possession even even if eventually making a stop or holding them to a FG. And that team had HOF players.

I was constantly frustrated that we didn't play ultra aggressive on defense and either make the stop, or give up a score quickly to get the ball back to the offense asap. They could have averaged 40 pts a game if they got the ball more often.

 

But that was Levi's  and unfortunately McDermotts philosophy. It won a lot of games in the regular season where most teams aren't as good as you. But ultimately failed at the most important times because the best teams can put together long drives ending in consistent points.

 

We've got Josh with some prime years left. Let's be aggressive.

Excellent comparison... that is exactly the issue to me... and if you look to my last post... aggressive dictate teams typically win it all... passive reactive teams typically do not...  13 seconds is the poster child here... 

Edited February 2 by JP51

[Freddie's Dead]

Who's Leonard?

[Mojo44]

10 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

Thanks for posting!  Good listen!

 

This all sounds great and I hate being a Negative Nancy but it is worth pointing out that Denver’s pass D wasn’t as good as the Bills despite all our injuries and Josh didn’t have a problem moving the ball against them when he wasn’t gifting them the ball.  

The Bill’s pass defense numbers were largely skewed by the fact that they had the worst running defense in the league. Passing yards against them weren’t very high because other teams could run the ball with relative ease. So this doesn’t concern me for next season.

[PoundingDog]

56 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

McDermott played vanilla for the first drive or 2 which effectively spotted the opponents points. 

 

Once he saw what they were doing he adjusted

That's typical of the conservative/zone/Base defense. In contrast, Brady wants aggressive/Pressure defense. There are pros and cons of both. Generally speaking, the conservative style yields very few big plays, which was the hallmark of McDermott's defense for years - Micah Hyde said (and executed) the best: I'm the last line of defense, no balls pass me.

 

McDermott is a good defensive coach. But with the complex offense today and not great talent on D for base defense, he has to wait to see what offense is doing to adjust to be effective. In critical times like the end of the game, it is often to late, among other reason. 

 

And honestly the best defenses we have seen in recent years is of that style IF you have the front 7 who can stop the run and the front 4 to pressure the QB relentlessly. Building those kind of defenses is not easy and nor consistent. We have the 2000 Ravens, 2013 Legion of Boom Seahawks, and 2017 Eagles with Elite front 4. McDermott and Beane tried 9 years and not close to have that.