Thrivefourfive Posted January 31 Posted January 31 Adding Jefferson allows for some things. Extends the “expendable players” list. All WRs expect Shakir. Knox. Dawkins. OL. If there’s any defenders who are movable that are borderline not playing up to potential… Gone. Offense will score the points. Defense needs a youthful refresh with the new DC. I wish for the Bills to be bullish right away about turning over this roster in every way possible. I hope Pegula and Beane were lying through their teeth about this being a championship roster. It simply isn’t. Gotta do it now. The current roster with new coaches isn’t it. That would be a worse team than 2025, obviously. Allen to Jefferson for the first touchdown in the new stadium… I wouldn’t mind. 1 1 Quote
NewEra Posted January 31 Posted January 31 2 hours ago, Real McCoy said: serious? 230yds in 11 games is killing it? He has had some decent returns but don't think he fits a WR1 role at all. I do n’t think anyone is calling shaheed a WR1. 1 Quote
Einstein Posted January 31 Posted January 31 Jefferson is definitely trying to talk his way out of Minnesota... 2 1 1 1 1 Quote
Kirby Jackson Posted January 31 Posted January 31 19 minutes ago, Einstein said: Jefferson is definitely trying to talk his way out of Minnesota... 14 3 Quote
Bills_inthe6 Posted January 31 Posted January 31 He was there for the picking when we traded or him for Diggs.... 1 Quote
aristocrat Posted January 31 Posted January 31 Tyreek went for a 1,2, 2 fourths and a sixth. I’d do that 1 1 1 Quote
starrymessenger Posted January 31 Posted January 31 3 hours ago, Real McCoy said: serious? 230yds in 11 games is killing it? He has had some decent returns but don't think he fits a WR1 role at all. Shaheed was on track for a 1000 yard season prior to his trade to Seattle - something like 499 yards on 66 targets. In Seattle he’s only gotten something like 26 targets. The Hawks got him because the one thing they lacked in their passing game was a vertical threat. They’ve got the guys who can work the short to medium depth routes and they are even better now because of Shaheed. Not saying he is a #1 receiver but he is probably a fairly solid #2 and a desirable player especially when you add his all pro return skills. Hawks will try to sign him but (understandably) havent yet. Chances are he tests the market. Depending on the dollars I’d be a buyer. 1 Quote
H2o Posted January 31 Posted January 31 https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/justin-jefferson-i-definitely-feel-like-we-would-have-done-better-with-sam-darnold Quote Asked in an interview with USA Today if he has thought about whether it could be the Vikings in the Super Bowl instead of the Seahawks if Darnold were in Minnesota instead of Seattle, Jefferson answered, “Yeah, for sure, definitely.” Quote “Everyone knows the difficulty of the quarterback position this year, how we were dealt it,” Jefferson said. “But having a quarterback that already had a season under his belt with us, knew the plays, knew the playbook, knew the players, throwing to me, Jordan Addison, T.J. Hockenson, all these guys, I definitely feel like we would have done better. But it is what it is, it’s on to newer and better things. But I’m definitely happy and proud of him that he is able to reach it this year.” Quote
Alphadawg7 Posted January 31 Posted January 31 (edited) 9 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: Should the Bills call on Jefferson? Of course. He’s arguably the best WR in the world. Outside of QB, WR and pass rush are the most important positions. Those are the Bills 2 biggest needs. Jefferson is 26 and has a history with our HC. His current team fired their GM and has massive questions at QB. This is a no brainer for the Bills. If they got Jefferson, they had a chance at being the greatest offense in history. It’s an extreme longshot. Why would Minnesota trade one of the best players at football, at one of the most important positions in football, at age 26? If you’re the Bills you make the call. You take your best swing. Be ultra-aggressive, like the Packers were with Parsons. If you can get it done, you win Super Bowls. If you can’t, you move onto the next guys (Waddle, Olave, AJ Brown, etc) but you have a line on that tier. Jefferson costs what he he costs. If they’ll accept an offer, you do it. With the others, you probably draw the line at 1 first. And yes, before the Chicken Littles scream, “but the salary cap” the Bills will be fine with the cap. They can make any of these moves without harming the future. They lack star power, and have for a few years. We see it when the top 100 comes out. We see it with all pros. This offseason is the time to add a guy in those tiers and I expect them to. Unfortunately, I don’t expect the Vikings to move Jefferson. I am all for Jefferson, and I hope we explore this. But WR is not one of the 3 most important positions in football. This is a position that gets so overvalued around here. Dont get me wrong, I want one more than anything too this year...but if QB, WR and Pass Rush were the 3 most important positions than the Bengals would have multiple SB rings by now instead of missing the playoffs the last 3 years with arguably the best WR duo in the league and an elite pass rusher to go along with a top 4 QB. Winning Football is built in the trenches out. WR isn't now, and never has been, more important than the OL to a QB. In fact, you want a masterclass in not winning in the NFL, go over invest into the WR position like teams such as Cincy and Miami most recently did. Most SB winners in the past 25 years didn't have an high priced WR group. Now, that doesn't mean we shouldn't pursue Jefferson, I am all for it, but mainly because he could be the difference maker on a team that has been on the door step. But, you won't find a coach or GM that would rank WR in the top 3 most important positions to build around. The ideal situation is always to hit on an elite talent in the draft, because once you have to start investing massive 2nd contracts into them, it gets harder to keep a championship caliber roster together with the concessions that come else where as a result. And that is because a WR isn't going to help mask the weaknesses elsewhere. Look at Puca and JSN - both still on rookie contracts. The contracts they will both sign will drastically change the cap situation for both the Rams and Seahawks as they will be market re-setting deals. Here we are 1 year removed from Jefferson signing his market re-setting deal and there is already talk that he could be moved as a result. And why? Because they let Darnold walk for cap reasons partly because of what they were gonna pay Jefferson. Edited January 31 by Alphadawg7 1 1 Quote
SCBills Posted January 31 Posted January 31 2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: I am all for Jefferson, and I hope we explore this. But WR is not one of the 3 most important positions in football. This is a position that gets so overvalued around here. Dont get me wrong, I want more than anything, but if QB, WR and Pass Rush were the 3 most important positions than the Bengals would have multiple SB rings by now instead of missing the playoffs the last 3 years with arguably the best WR duo in the league and an elite pass rusher to go along with a top 4 QB. Winning Football is built in the trenches out. WR isn't now, and never has been, more important than the OL to a QB. In fact, you want a masterclass in not winning in the NFL, go over invest into the WR position like teams such as Cincy and Miami most recently did. Most SB winners in the past 25 years didn't have an elite WR group or top 3 WR. Now, that doesn't mean we shouldn't pursue Jefferson, I am all for it, but mainly because he could be the difference maker on a team that has been on the door step. But, you won't find a coach or GM that would rank WR in the top 3 most important positions to build around. The ideal situation is always to hit on an elite talent in the draft, because once you have to start investing massive 2nd contracts into them, it gets harder to keep a championship caliber roster together with the concessions that come else where as a result. And that is because a WR isn't going to help mask the weaknesses elsewhere. Look at Puca and JSN - both still on rookie contracts. The contracts they will both sign will drastically change the cap situation for both the Rams and Seahawks as they will be market re-setting deals. Here we are 1 year removed from Jefferson signing his market re-setting deal and there is already talk that he could be moved as a result. And why? Because they let Darnold walk for cap reasons partly because of what they were gonna pay Jefferson. I made the point about perhaps using the picks needed to get JJ (if available) instead in the Draft, but I wouldn’t hate trading for him. The Defense has been a joke in the playoffs but the criticism of Allen that he’s had the ball late with a chance is one we have to live with currently… so why is that? Dawkins got beat quickly, pushed back into Allen, affects throw short, misses Shakir open in back of end zone. Next play is a mess. Bass misses chip shot FG to tie. Allen evades pressure enough as Spags completely destroyed us with his playcall, gets the ball to Kincaid for a tough catch but one he should make.. drops it. Allen hits Cook for what should be the game winning play to set up a short FG attempt. Not a perfect pass, but good enough, Cooks can’t catch it cleanly. Interception. At this point, I don’t care.. get JA someone who will make the ****ing play. 3 Quote
NeverOutNick Posted January 31 Posted January 31 6 minutes ago, SCBills said: I made the point about perhaps using the picks needed to get JJ (if available) instead in the Draft, but I wouldn’t hate trading for him. The Defense has been a joke in the playoffs but the criticism of Allen that he’s had the ball late with a chance is one we have to live with currently… so why is that? Dawkins got beat quickly, pushed back into Allen, affects throw short, misses Shakir open in back of end zone. Next play is a mess. Bass misses chip shot FG to tie. Allen evades pressure enough as Spags completely destroyed us with his playcall, gets the ball to Kincaid for a tough catch but one he should make.. drops it. Allen hits Cook for what should be the game winning play to set up a short FG attempt. Not a perfect pass, but good enough, Cooks can’t catch it cleanly. Interception. At this point, I don’t care.. get JA someone who will make the ****ing play. 100% agree! I’m always going to say draft multiple receivers every year like Green Bay does because it’s a cheap and efficient way to not be dependent on one guy, but Justin Jefferson is probably the one exception because he’s just so amazing and not a diva. He makes the Diggs, Kincaid and Cooks catch no problem in all those heart breakers Quote
Dr. Who Posted January 31 Posted January 31 16 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: I am all for Jefferson, and I hope we explore this. But WR is not one of the 3 most important positions in football. This is a position that gets so overvalued around here. Dont get me wrong, I want one more than anything too this year...but if QB, WR and Pass Rush were the 3 most important positions than the Bengals would have multiple SB rings by now instead of missing the playoffs the last 3 years with arguably the best WR duo in the league and an elite pass rusher to go along with a top 4 QB. Winning Football is built in the trenches out. WR isn't now, and never has been, more important than the OL to a QB. In fact, you want a masterclass in not winning in the NFL, go over invest into the WR position like teams such as Cincy and Miami most recently did. Most SB winners in the past 25 years didn't have an high priced WR group. Now, that doesn't mean we shouldn't pursue Jefferson, I am all for it, but mainly because he could be the difference maker on a team that has been on the door step. But, you won't find a coach or GM that would rank WR in the top 3 most important positions to build around. The ideal situation is always to hit on an elite talent in the draft, because once you have to start investing massive 2nd contracts into them, it gets harder to keep a championship caliber roster together with the concessions that come else where as a result. And that is because a WR isn't going to help mask the weaknesses elsewhere. Look at Puca and JSN - both still on rookie contracts. The contracts they will both sign will drastically change the cap situation for both the Rams and Seahawks as they will be market re-setting deals. Here we are 1 year removed from Jefferson signing his market re-setting deal and there is already talk that he could be moved as a result. And why? Because they let Darnold walk for cap reasons partly because of what they were gonna pay Jefferson. Alright, Brandon. If you could draft capable WRs you wouldn't have to trade for expensive ones. P.S. Please don't waste cap dollars on mid-level DL and tier 2, 3, and street FA WRs. 1 Quote
Kirby Jackson Posted January 31 Posted January 31 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: I am all for Jefferson, and I hope we explore this. But WR is not one of the 3 most important positions in football. This is a position that gets so overvalued around here. Dont get me wrong, I want one more than anything too this year...but if QB, WR and Pass Rush were the 3 most important positions than the Bengals would have multiple SB rings by now instead of missing the playoffs the last 3 years with arguably the best WR duo in the league and an elite pass rusher to go along with a top 4 QB. Winning Football is built in the trenches out. WR isn't now, and never has been, more important than the OL to a QB. In fact, you want a masterclass in not winning in the NFL, go over invest into the WR position like teams such as Cincy and Miami most recently did. Most SB winners in the past 25 years didn't have an high priced WR group. Now, that doesn't mean we shouldn't pursue Jefferson, I am all for it, but mainly because he could be the difference maker on a team that has been on the door step. But, you won't find a coach or GM that would rank WR in the top 3 most important positions to build around. The ideal situation is always to hit on an elite talent in the draft, because once you have to start investing massive 2nd contracts into them, it gets harder to keep a championship caliber roster together with the concessions that come else where as a result. And that is because a WR isn't going to help mask the weaknesses elsewhere. Look at Puca and JSN - both still on rookie contracts. The contracts they will both sign will drastically change the cap situation for both the Rams and Seahawks as they will be market re-setting deals. Here we are 1 year removed from Jefferson signing his market re-setting deal and there is already talk that he could be moved as a result. And why? Because they let Darnold walk for cap reasons partly because of what they were gonna pay Jefferson. Contracts would say that WR and pass rush come right after QB. We have just tried to convince ourselves that it’s not that important because we haven’t had any. Puka and JSN are the best players on final 4 teams. They transform their offenses. That’s why WRs are making what they’re making. Along with pass rush, they have the greatest impact outside of QB. Edited January 31 by Kirby Jackson 1 Quote
Warriorspikes51 Posted January 31 Author Posted January 31 (edited) okay I’ll increase my offer to convince Vikings to eat the extra 7 million pre June 1st trade 1st in 26 5th in 26 1st in 27 4th in 27 that becomes a 3rd if Bills win SB Edited January 31 by Warriorspikes51 Quote
Alphadawg7 Posted January 31 Posted January 31 14 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Contracts would say that WR and pass rush come right after QB. We have just tried to convince ourselves that it’s not that important because we haven’t had any. Puka and JSN are the best players on final 4 teams. They transform their offenses. That’s why WRs are making what they’re making. Along with pass rush, they have the greatest impact outside of QB. You seem to have clearly missed the part about both of them still on rookie deals and how it will change after they get paid. And no disrespect, but historical data also disagrees with your assessment. Quote
Kirby Jackson Posted January 31 Posted January 31 22 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: You seem to have clearly missed the part about both of them still on rookie deals and how it will change after they get paid. And no disrespect, but historical data also disagrees with your assessment. But that’s what the league is saying now. Look at contracts. The league can pay whomever, whatever. WRs and pass rushers come right after QB. I realize they’re on rookie deals but that’s irrelevant to the point. They’ll sacrifice the middle and back of the roster to pay them $40M AAV because they move the needle. They impact winning. I’m not making that up. You can look at the top contracts in the league outside of QB and see what positions they play. Quote
Alphadawg7 Posted January 31 Posted January 31 2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: But that’s what the league is saying now. Look at contracts. The league can pay whomever, whatever. WRs and pass rushers come right after QB. I realize they’re on rookie deals but that’s irrelevant to the point. They’ll sacrifice the middle and back of the roster to pay them $40M AAV because they move the needle. They impact winning. I’m not making that up. You can look at the top contracts in the league outside of QB and see what positions they play. Show me how many teams have won Super Bowls with top 5 WR contracts? Its not many. That is the point. Importance isn't contract size, its impact on the game. And you will not find a coach or GM who will list WR above the trenches of importance. And all the teams chasing that have almost entirely failed. The only recent one who "didn't" was Philly, but it was not the investment in WR that got them over the hump, it was the home runs they hit in the draft rebuilding their defense that really got them to the promise land that dominated and shut down the Chiefs in the SB. Again, Bengals have not even made the playoffs in 3 seasons, Miami never even won a playoff game and also hasnt made the playoffs in 2 seasons. All after going all on contract wise at WR. The Bills are DIFFERENT, they are a game impact player away from being a monster. But the highest scoring season in Bills history wasn't when we had a top 3 WR with Diggs, HOF players at WR, etc etc. It was with Keon, Mack, and Shakir. Again, I want Jefferson, I am only disagreeing with the notion that WR is one of the 3 most important positions, because its not. The last 2 dynasties show that too with Pats and Chiefs who outside 1 of their 9 combined SB wins, only once had a top 10 WR. 1 Quote
Kirby Jackson Posted February 1 Posted February 1 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Show me how many teams have won Super Bowls with top 5 WR contracts? Its not many. That is the point. Importance isn't contract size, its impact on the game. And you will not find a coach or GM who will list WR above the trenches of importance. And all the teams chasing that have almost entirely failed. The only recent one who "didn't" was Philly, but it was not the investment in WR that got them over the hump, it was the home runs they hit in the draft rebuilding their defense that really got them to the promise land that dominated and shut down the Chiefs in the SB. Again, Bengals have not even made the playoffs in 3 seasons, Miami never even won a playoff game and also hasnt made the playoffs in 2 seasons. All after going all on contract wise at WR. The Bills are DIFFERENT, they are a game impact player away from being a monster. But the highest scoring season in Bills history wasn't when we had a top 3 WR with Diggs, HOF players at WR, etc etc. It was with Keon, Mack, and Shakir. Again, I want Jefferson, I am only disagreeing with the notion that WR is one of the 3 most important positions, because its not. The last 2 dynasties show that too with Pats and Chiefs who outside 1 of their 9 combined SB wins, only once had a top 10 WR. The reigning Super Bowl Champs have 2 highly compensated WRs. We need no more evidence than last February. I’m saying that IS what the league is saying. We do agree that the Bills are an impact player away. Jefferson would elevate this offense to another stratosphere. They’d have a chance to be the best ever. There would be space everywhere for Cook, Kincaid and Shakir. You’d have Jefferson in every big moment. I’ll go as far to say, that Jefferson is more impactful for the defense than any defensive addition outside of an elite pass rusher (Crosby or Hendrickson). @NoSaint posted earlier the number of rush attempts the ‘07 Pats saw. The Bills run defense would be fixed by not allowing teams the opportunity to run. They could just pin their ears back and rush the passer. You’ll get some sacks. You’ll get some turnovers. You’ll even get some holding calls that these teams won’t be able to overcome. Jefferson makes opposing offenses one dimensional. Edited February 1 by Kirby Jackson 1 1 Quote
Alphadawg7 Posted February 1 Posted February 1 3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: The reigning Super Bowl Champs have 2 highly compensated WRs. We need now more evidence than last February. I’m saying that IS what the league is saying. Its all good man, we agree on the impact a JJ can have here. But for the "reigning champs" part - they couldn't get over the hump until they rebuilt their defense and run game. The highly paid aspect of the WR's had little to do with it. If you think the WR's are one of the 3 most important aspects of last years Eagles team, then I feel like we are watching different games. Eagles won the SB on the back of a dominant defense and that whole season, that team offensively was carried by a dominant OL and one of the best seasons ever by a RB. So much so, that even winning a SB couldn't keep the WR's happy and now AJ Brown wants out because he isn't as important to the team as you say WR's are. 2 Quote
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