Beane debate has gone too far

[MRW]

9 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

It’s ironic. For many us a cloud has followed around our fandom. We wanted McD gone, but it truly felt like it just wouldn’t happen. The inevitable postseason collapse felt guaranteed. Now I sense different posters here being far more positive. Myself included. While the people that used to die on the hill for McD are now becoming incredibly negative fans. 

What's funny is I would have counted myself as one who didn't want to move on from McDermott, even as recently as last year. I believed (and still believe) that there is a lot of luck in getting to and winning a Super Bowl. But another year of watching a game slip away in the same fashion is just too much, and I didn't see how you can come back the next season and get everyone hyped up to go for it again. So I respect the man but I am more optimistic than I have been for several years (unless the Bills hire Daboll).

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Mikie2times said:

It’s ironic. For many us a cloud has followed around our fandom. We wanted McD gone, but it truly felt like it just wouldn’t happen. The inevitable postseason collapse felt guaranteed. Now I sense different posters here being far more positive.

 

It feels great knowing the owner cares about winning a Super Bowl above all else. I was not 100% sure that was the case. Keeping McDermott around would have been the safer and financially savvier move. Pegula took a huge risk knowing he would be roasted for it. It gives me a lot of confidence in the future of the team.

 

If he hadn't fired McDermott I would feel utterly hopeless right now, just waiting for a pointless season destined to end in devastating fashion as Allen enters the last stage of his prime years. Now I know there's at least a chance of Allen's legacy being secured. I don't know for sure if it's all going to work out of course but this upcoming offseason and season are going to be the most fun I've had in a while. I'd like to think the players on the team will come to see it the same way eventually. They were broken after that loss. A mental reset is going to be good for everybody once we get past the grief stage of the breakup.

[BananaB]

7 hours ago, bmur66 said:

I love to see the Bills offense play the Bills defense for real. How would that go?

Don’t they do that all summer? Keon was elite last summer, that’s how it went. 

[SydneyBillsFan]

This is a pretty rational debate on the McD / Beane topic:

 

 

[Donuts and Doritos]

10 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

 

Last year, after the AFC Championship, I looked at the roster and said I did not think it was good enough for those moments. That opinion existed well before Beane bashing was a thing. At the time, you could not question anything about ole big baller. There was a sense that certain people walked on water, and roster criticism was off limits. Now fast forward and it is interesting to watch how the conversation has shifted almost entirely away from McDermott and fully onto Beane.

 

The core question everyone keeps asking is whether this is a Super Bowl roster. Earlier in the year, my answer was no, because I viewed that question through the lens of dominance. Could we have added pieces to raise the ceiling, blow teams out, and realistically chase the one seed. That was the frustration. But when you look at the actual AFC landscape right now, it gets harder to argue that this team is not capable.

 

The two teams representing the AFC in Denver and New England. We should have beat Denver convincingly. We did beat New England. Both games on the road. It is hard for me to say with confidence that we are not better than both of those teams. Are we built to run away with the conference. No. Are we capable of winning it with who we have. I think the answer is yes.

 

Listening to Beane talk about the offensive vision helped contextualize some of the decisions. Defenses are living in shell coverage. Running games and heavy personnel are becoming more valuable. Tight ends matter more. We leaned into that shift earlier than most teams. That deserves some credit, even if certain decisions can still be debated.

 

There is also a real philosophical tension between the offense and defense. Offensively, the vision leans toward size, physicality, and multiplicity. Defensively, we continue to prioritize lighter, faster, penetrating players. It feels like it’s a mistake to say lets build an offense that can take advantage of these recent NFL trends but a defense that is vulnerable to them. That is what we have been stuck in with the marriage to this McD led system.  I do think Beane see's that, he has to see it, and I don't think his long term vision is undersized defensive linemen or blocking wide receivers. I think he wants speed on the outside and size up front. Whether that alignment fully materializes remains to be seen.

 

We have an excellent offensive line. Very good running backs. A strong tight end room. Outside of wide receiver, the offense is talented. Defensively, my confidence in McDermott’s scheme is about as low as it gets, so it’s really difficult to understand what talent we have on that side of the ball.  Seeing players like Edmunds and Ford significantly outperform how they played here hits home and it me it's more than possible that some of this defensive roster is in fact far better than they have performed thus far. 

 

There are a lot of bad general managers in this league. I am not ready to assume Beane is one of them. I think the next year or two will tell us far more than reactionary takes right now. Wanting accountability is fair. Declaring the franchise is headed in the wrong direction because we did not fire everyone is a leap I am not comfortable making.

 

The problem isn't as much retaining Beane as promoting Beane. 

[BillsPride12]

32 minutes ago, Donuts and Doritos said:

 

The problem isn't as much retaining Beane as promoting Beane. 

This is another thing that is being blown out of proportion IMO. They basically restructured how the front office is going to operate. The system they had prior with Beane and McDermott having equal power sounded like it was a mess

Edited January 23 by BillsPride12

[Buffalo Boy]

8 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Don’t you need me to post the 50 times this season they let defenders run straight at Allen?

That’s how that AWESOME screen play is set up😂. Sure hope we keep that one

[entropyrules]

11 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

I, for one, will continue to assassinate him. It’s the American way. 

ahh a distant relative of Leon Czolgosz

[Kmart128]

I honestly think having losing in Playoffs again some people needed something to complain about. And since they got what they wanted with Mcdermott being let go they had to find something else to complain about. And now here we are

[Bill from NYC]

6 hours ago, Rousseauisnoschmo said:

Blaming Beanes shortcomings on McDermott is ridiculous. Your the GM. Your the guy who makes the final call. If you believe your coach is wrong you dont make a bad choice to appease him. Pegula should be embarrassed for even suggesting that. I doubt he built a multi billion dollar company by going along with recommendations he thought were terrible just to appease his subordinates. 

McDermott hired Beane in 2018. Did you ever hire your boss?

[GunnerBill]

50 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

McDermott hired Beane in 2018. Did you ever hire your boss?

 

Beane was not McDermott's boss, but not was McDermott's Beane's boss and even in the carcrash of a presser Beane reiterated twice that every single pick he makes the final call, and that while occasionally he has leaned to guys other people - scouts and coaches - have preferred over his guy it is never guys he wouldn't draft or thinks are no good.... it is when it comes down to player A vs player B which of these are we taking type decisions. 

[TH3]

12 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

 

Last year, after the AFC Championship, I looked at the roster and said I did not think it was good enough for those moments. That opinion existed well before Beane bashing was a thing. At the time, you could not question anything about ole big baller. There was a sense that certain people walked on water, and roster criticism was off limits. Now fast forward and it is interesting to watch how the conversation has shifted almost entirely away from McDermott and fully onto Beane.

 

The core question everyone keeps asking is whether this is a Super Bowl roster. Earlier in the year, my answer was no, because I viewed that question through the lens of dominance. Could we have added pieces to raise the ceiling, blow teams out, and realistically chase the one seed. That was the frustration. But when you look at the actual AFC landscape right now, it gets harder to argue that this team is not capable.

 

The two teams representing the AFC in Denver and New England. We should have beat Denver convincingly. We did beat New England. Both games on the road. It is hard for me to say with confidence that we are not better than both of those teams. Are we built to run away with the conference. No. Are we capable of winning it with who we have. I think the answer is yes.

 

Listening to Beane talk about the offensive vision helped contextualize some of the decisions. Defenses are living in shell coverage. Running games and heavy personnel are becoming more valuable. Tight ends matter more. We leaned into that shift earlier than most teams. That deserves some credit, even if certain decisions can still be debated.

 

There is also a real philosophical tension between the offense and defense. Offensively, the vision leans toward size, physicality, and multiplicity. Defensively, we continue to prioritize lighter, faster, penetrating players. It feels like it’s a mistake to say lets build an offense that can take advantage of these recent NFL trends but a defense that is vulnerable to them. That is what we have been stuck in with the marriage to this McD led system.  I do think Beane see's that, he has to see it, and I don't think his long term vision is undersized defensive linemen or blocking wide receivers. I think he wants speed on the outside and size up front. Whether that alignment fully materializes remains to be seen.

 

We have an excellent offensive line. Very good running backs. A strong tight end room. Outside of wide receiver, the offense is talented. Defensively, my confidence in McDermott’s scheme is about as low as it gets, so it’s really difficult to understand what talent we have on that side of the ball.  Seeing players like Edmunds and Ford significantly outperform how they played here hits home and it me it's more than possible that some of this defensive roster is in fact far better than they have performed thus far. 

 

There are a lot of bad general managers in this league. I am not ready to assume Beane is one of them. I think the next year or two will tell us far more than reactionary takes right now. Wanting accountability is fair. Declaring the franchise is headed in the wrong direction because we did not fire everyone is a leap I am not comfortable making.

The franchise hasn’t shown it’s going in the right direction

[Mr. WEO]

The Bills Offense has been "built" and or coached to score 11 points on average in the first half, thus often relying on the heroic efforts of the MVP, as the run game is blunted when playing from behind and the long ball game has disappeared almost completely because there is no player or players Josh can confidently send long.  So, he scrambles more.  As great as he is, given this style of Offense, he's bound to turn the ball over more. 

 

The criticisms of Beane are not new and have proven well founded.  Starting yet another thread denying their truth proves the criticism has actually not gone too far.

[Bill from NYC]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Beane was not McDermott's boss, but not was McDermott's Beane's boss and even in the carcrash of a presser Beane reiterated twice that every single pick he makes the final call, and that while occasionally he has leaned to guys other people - scouts and coaches - have preferred over his guy it is never guys he wouldn't draft or thinks are no good.... it is when it comes down to player A vs player B which of these are we taking type decisions. 

I don't know why you think it impossible for a coach to have final say GB. Pat Kirwan said on his radio show that Pete Carroll was in charge of the draft when he was the Jet coach. Do you think that anyone could overrule Bill Parcells in the draft room? Parcells even spoke about this.

 

When McDermott was hired in 2017, Beane wasn't there. The two of them worked together on the Panthers. Now, who got who the job?  McDermott sold Mr. Pegula a bill of goods and he went for it. 

 

Mr. Pegula made the right move. I wish McDermott well. I sincerely do but it was time for a change and I support this move 100%.

[Donuts and Doritos]

2 hours ago, BillsPride12 said:

This is another thing that is being blown out of proportion IMO. They basically restructured how the front office is going to operate. The system they had prior with Beane and McDermott having equal power sounded like it was a mess

 

Not at all overblown. He's now in charge of all of the players and all of the coaches. He's in charge of everything. That is a promotion. What did he do to deserve a promotion this year? How did he earn that promotion this year? They didn't need to promote him, could have just kept him as GM. And the 2 people who held this position prior were Russ Brandon & Tom Donahoe. Hardly inspiring. It's not the retention it's the completely unnecessary promotion I have a problem with. But it's done and now Beane is in charge of all of it. Which means he owns the results. So we should expect a Superbowl win in the next 2 years (bc a decade running personnel is enough time to deliver a Superbowl). No more excuses.

 

Edited January 23 by Donuts and Doritos

[Flipnmi]

3 hours ago, Donuts and Doritos said:

 

The problem isn't as much retaining Beane as promoting Beane. 

The promotion was merely an acknowledgement by Terry that he has important responsibilities at home and needs an organization to take some of his load off his shoulders and that the 50-50 split in team leadship was problematic.  

[cage]

13 hours ago, Dinoman said:

There have simply been too many whiffs in the draft and FA recently to keep us truly competitive.

 

the first 3 picks in the last two years, only guy who plays is Bishop.  
 

That’s hard to win with. 

 

The early-round whiffs in the draft are also on McDermott.  Just focusing on the defensive "whiffs" at the moment, on this board people have continually called out the picks of Kair Elam, Dwayne Carter, Boogie Basham, Landon Jackson and even Epenesa and TJ Sanders.  McDermott is in the draft room smiling as those guys are being picked.  He's in every meeting where they're being ranked, at the scouting combine, asking questions in their prospect interviews and reviewed all their game film.  These are guys that HE wanted for his Defense.  

 

In the last draft they targeted and traded up for TJ Sanders.  He didn't drop to them with a "we picked the best player available" story.  They went up to get him because that's who McDermott wanted.  He's had a slow start.  We'll see how he turns out, but to think that Beane made the pick and then saddled McD with the player he didn't want is just incorrect.

Edited January 23 by cage

[NewEra]

We need to execute better.

[SoCal Deek]

8 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

The sad thing is we have tons of Bills fans bashing Terry, Beane and Josh.  Many have said they are going to root for whomever McDermott coaches for.

 

Its pathetic 

Not me. I root for the Buffalo Bills and have for SIX decades. I do have to admit it’s gotten exhausting, but it always is right after the season ends. I don’t blame the fans who are still hurting and feel the need to lash out. They have to vent somehow. I have no doubt they’ll be back the week after the new coach is named and speaks. Right now it’s a vacuum and that makes folks nervous. 

[Donuts and Doritos]

10 minutes ago, Flipnmi said:

The promotion was merely an acknowledgement by Terry that he has important responsibilities at home and needs an organization to take some of his load off his shoulders and that the 50-50 split in team leadship was problematic.  

 

I get that reason, and that Terry is going through a lot and this is best for him. I have grace for Terry's circumstances. But it is not going "too far" as this thread says to question if this move is also good for the Bills. Brandon didn't do anything to earn the promotion this season. It didn't have to be Brandon getting the job, they could have interviewed other people. It was done in conjunction with firing the head coach in a season many felt was not a great one for Brandon. They did not communicate that reason or really any rationale at the press conference. From a fans perspective it leaves a lot of questions about whether it makes us better to put Brandon in charge of everything. These are legitimate questions, concerns and doubts and this thread saying we go too far to question this is wrong.