Beane debate has gone too far

[SoCal Deek]

People need to grow up. I don’t give a rats arse what the rest of the country thinks about the loveable loser Bills community.  I want to win a freaking Super Bowl! 

[Buffalo Boy]

37 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Come again?

 

I don’t understand why people think our offensive line is so great.

Ummm, a rushing title…..?

[Mister Defense]

2 hours ago, ToGoGo said:

Where are all the calm people? Am I the only one? Anybody else here with a brain that remembers more than the last 3 months. 

 

Hey, can you elaborate on this? I am not exactly sure what you imply here, but think it could add to the conversation.

 

I am not sure if you are supporting Mikies' OP ideas, doing the opposite, or something else.

 

 

 

Edited January 23 by Mister Defense

[notpolian]

I think this year, this roster was good enough to make the super bowl.  I don't think it could have most years and I also don't know if we could get past the Seahawks if they don't go full Darnold.  But sadly we'll never know because Allen had an off game while still scoring 30 points. 

 

We need a better defense and an 'easier' offense in my opinion.  We can always hope Beane has a great draft this year.  😐

[Don Otreply]

2 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

I, for one, will continue to assassinate him. It’s the American way. 

Don’t stop being you! 

[y2zipper]

16 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

I'll add one other reason I'm comfortable keeping Beane while firing McDermott - I think that evaluating potential GMs is a lot murkier than evaluating potential head coaches. With coaches there is some sort of proof of concept. You know what skill sets are successful and there is a track record you can follow. With GMs I wouldn't even know where to begin to look. You're really just betting on someone that has been part of another successful front office and hoping they can scout talent, write contracts, and build relationships with agents and players. Beane can do the executive functions of the job with the best of them which I'm guessing is why Pegula retained him. I'm interested to see what the scouting piece of his job looks like with new voices on the coaching staff.

 

I'm not ready to say my concerns with him have evaporated but I'm at least intrigued to see what it looks like in a new situation, and ultimately I'm happy that we have some kind of continuity in the building as we enter the next chapter. Blowing the whole thing up may have been a step too far for a team that is right on the doorstep of the Super Bowl, and I probably didn't give that reasoning enough credit when I originally wanted everybody fired.

 

 

I don't really have an issue with the process behind the decision to fire the coach. It had really become a situation where there just isn't any way to move forward with all of the same people. There's no easy way to go to the fan base and tell them that you think the coach came up short too many times, and I'm not really sure there was a power play. The meetings and disagreements inside the office are things that I imagine are normal, but they become drama when the team doesn't win and they decide to make a change. I'm at the point as a fan where I prefer the role of the dice to another year of mcdermott. I respect the fact that they are going to to try to win while josh allen is here. I don't know if they'll win the super bowl, but I think a lot of people could coach this team to twelve wins and a divisional.

 

I also think there's a relatively good degree of self awareness from Pegula where he just doesn't have the capability to make the football decision by himself. Buffalo hired mcdermott when the previous gm was on the hot seat, and he led the search. Terry largely doesn't insert himself into the decision making. He had to come down for this one because both guys report to him, and as long as he goes back away and we don't hear from him, the bills will remain relatively good.

 

As much as outside receiver is a position where the bills need to get a little bit better, we have all seen the team continually develop offensive linemen, running backs, a slot receiver, and multiple tight ends than can contribute and keep the offense productive. There are some micro issues, but the addition of cooks shows us that there's a space between she was like the guys that just didn't stay healthy, like Samuel and Palmer, and picking a good, route running veteran that can create the separation necessary downfield.

 

The argument that I would make in terms of pro moving off of McDermott is that we haven't seen the same recycling on the defensive side of the ball. The major reason for the roster decline the past few years it's because for whatever reason, the defense has to repeatedly rely on plugging.In the same mcdermott, players that were here in 2017 when he was hired.

Some of that is injury, but some of that is mcdermott's reluctance to play young players and it really results in a defense is that because of age and declining physical ability, doesn't really tackle as well as it needs to and has more injuries in critical moments.

 

I don't know how much blame to assign to who because these horizontal reporting structures are always a little wonky, but my preference is to a team structure where the buck stops with somebody. Now we know who...

[Mikie2times]

45 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Bishop

Benford

Walker

Oliver if he can stay healthy and at reworked lower contract

 

Think the following will be good give them another year

Hairston

Hancock

 

Maybe??

Sanders

 

 

 

Not so sure Beane will want Milano back unless at a much lower backup type salary since he redid his contract to make him a FA after this year.  Thompson may want to follow McD, though number of job openings is dwindling so maybe McD sits out a year, then Thompson may be back

 

I'd rather see them keep Edwards and let McGovern go.  

I think we need to allow him FA and the draft to build this out. Milano was very good this year. Shaq was a huge surprise. Will those guys be back? Hoecht looked like he was going to ball out. Groot is at least Karlaftis quality. Perhaps if he doesn't have so much run contain he makes more splash plays.  He's had some good value defensive signing in the past. Floyd comes to mind, even Bosa this year until he just fizzled out. This will be the first offseason under this layout, lets see what that ends up looking like. 

 

 

41 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

I'll add one other reason I'm comfortable keeping Beane while firing McDermott - I think that evaluating potential GMs is a lot murkier than evaluating potential head coaches. With coaches there is some sort of proof of concept. You know what skill sets are successful and there is a track record you can follow. With GMs I wouldn't even know where to begin to look. You're really just betting on someone that has been part of another successful front office and hoping they can scout talent, write contracts, and build relationships with agents and players. Beane can do the executive functions of the job with the best of them which I'm guessing is why Pegula retained him. I'm interested to see what the scouting piece of his job looks like with new voices on the coaching staff.

 

I'm not ready to say my concerns with him have evaporated but I'm at least intrigued to see what it looks like in a new situation, and ultimately I'm happy that we have some kind of continuity in the building as we enter the next chapter. Blowing the whole thing up may have been a step too far for a team that is right on the doorstep of the Super Bowl, and I probably didn't give that reasoning enough credit when I originally wanted everybody fired.

 

I have been completely aligned with nearly all your takes of late and agree completely on not fully blowing this up. It's also what I originally wanted but the more I have watched this play out the more I think that would have been a mistake. Beane is competent, that helps keep Terry competent. We have been very close and have a lot of good going with the culture. It the whole thing was blown up I would be way less confident than I am now. 

Edited January 23 by Mikie2times

[Einstein]

22 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

Ummm, a rushing title…..?

 

Don’t you need me to post the 50 times this season they let defenders run straight at Allen?

[colin]

I agree w Mikie OP.  All kneel before the dark Lord King Beane!

 

So, I agree that we need some top shelf elite talent, and simply have too little of it, but I think mcbeane as a duo always wanted to build a middle class team.

 

Channing crowder was on bussin w the boys and said that if a team has a lot of top end talent it just means the bottom and middle of the roster sucks, because we are all under the same salary cap and the draft rewards bad teams and punishes good teams.

 

Personally, I'm a fan of the rams (and to a lesser extent KC) model of only valuing draft picks when you are going after players you really think are the ish.  Last draft was the first time the rams had a first round selection since jarred Goff!   They did attempt to get a high draft pick to get will Anderson jr (outside of Garrett I consider him the best player on d in the NFL), but the bills have used that approach sparingly and otherwise seem to love depth along the roster.

 

Another confounding factor in this is the pro bowl is a bit of a ball washing exercise, and all pros (while less of a popularity contest) simply pick the top ranked guys at a position, and they reflect in large parts a given seasons production.  If it was for the next season, maybe 31 of 32 gms would take burrow and Josh over maye, but he was ahead of them in the all pro rankings.  In addition, even if the all pro list does capture correct rankings, it doesn't measure the distance between the players ability.  Maybe you can argue that Spencer Brown isn't a top 2 or so RT to get a 1st or 2nd team all pro, but I say he's too 5 and not far back of the top ranked guys.  When kinkaide was healthy (I know, health matters) he was the most effective tight end on a per snap or per target basis (or like just 2 or 3 in some metrics).  We had some solid offensive team numbers in every game he played in, and quite the opposite in all games he didn't play (I think we mighta ran all over a sorry team one or two games tho).  He didn't sniff an all pro, but was clearly the most dangerous te in the playoffs to my eye.

 

The truth is our roster structure leaves a lot to be desired, just like mikie made clear.  The upside is we can move on or restructure or pay cut a couple guys and if we min max the value game in the draft and free agency, the constant holes on the coverages that MCD called would get papered over some.

 

And that leads me to the last but most salient point -- MCD is an awful awful choker of a coach.  His stupid tight puckered up bung hole lead to rigidity and dumb snap decisions allowing good offensive coordinators to just laugh at his red spectacled chipmunk ass while they called simple plays to beat his obvious drop zone "please make a mistake while I live in fear of getting beat deep" coverages.

 

I was a little bit fooled with how he stepped in vs ATL and a few other games, even in the 3rd vs Denver, and got aggressive and creative and let the boys go hunt, but when the chips are down, he will spaz out and grind his teeth and cancel the squib kick and call sideline coverage vs a team with 3 timeouts, or get tunnel vision and not give help to the dog water scrub who is in an island for one play (and it happened two times!), or stick with AJ Klien in Bermuda shorts and a jimmy buffet sound track over a talented rookie, no matter how few punts his d forces (zero, they forced zero until Williams got in that game).

 

I thought maybe it was because of kc and Reid, maybe it was the injuries, because he could call a real d sometimes in the regular season, but a choker is a choker and a loser is a loser.

 

We didn't have a good enough roster to win because our coach dialed up a white flag when it mattered most, but most points scored and fewest given up over 6 years means we had as much talent as anyone else.

[Freddie's Dead]

Beane has brought it upon himself.  The selective leaking of stories designed to undermine McDummy shows a conniving, vindictive personality.  I am not at all hopeful that Beane can bring the Lombardi to Buffalo.  His complete and utter failure to provide Josh with any weapons other than Cook since he traded Stephon Diggs has been damning.

[ToGoGo]

1 hour ago, Mister Defense said:

 

Hey, can you elaborate on this? I am not exactly sure what you imply here, but think it could add to the conversation.

 

I am not sure if you are supporting Mikies' OP ideas, doing the opposite, or something else.

 

 

 

I’m on the “everything is going to be OK side”. 

[LittleSammy]

12 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Beane has brought it upon himself.  The selective leaking of stories designed to undermine McDummy shows a conniving, vindictive personality.  I am not at all hopeful that Beane can bring the Lombardi to Buffalo.  His complete and utter failure to provide Josh with any weapons other than Cook since he traded Stephon Diggs has been damning.

People are delusional to think the current roster shortcomings are totally on Beane. McDermott had an equal seat at the table and laid out his expectations for the personnel he wanted to fit his defensive scheme and for Beane to go after. The Terrell Bernards and Jordan Phillips of the world are also on McDermott, not Beane. Von Miller, you think Beane didn't get McDermott's advance buy for that move?

[QLBillsFan]

2 hours ago, <bills4life> said:

But people and the media are a fickle bunch.  As time progresses this too shall pass. Especially if they hire the right coach. 

Absolutely 👍.. but if you’re a billionaire just literally spend a day practicing the presser. What ?’s will obviously come. How do we explain the need for change? (75% of Bills fans would agree) be it McD, BB, or both.
How can they respectfully  honor what McD did for the franchise? Just a reasonable amount of prep. Instead of jumping in as BB is explained the Coleman pick, let him own it since he’s the guy still employed.

Understanding what you’re good at-running a gas fracking empire and what you’re not good at-communication is important. It impacts 

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

I was one that was of the opinion that if a change was going to be made, both needed to go.

 

Having said that, the owner made a decision and now we have to move on.  Beane isn't going anywhere and it's now counterproductive to keep rehashing what did and didn't happen on Monday. 

 

Now, I think it's best to support Beane and hope he does a fantastic job because we need him be one of the best GMs in the league going forward.  The future of this franchise depends on that happening. 

 

The Bills will go as Brandon Beane goes.  

 

This is the way.

All the pitchfork stuff is just that. Air your feelings sure but going on tirades for hundreds of posts is a waste of time. McD is gone. Previously most people complaining wanted him fired long ago. He isn't coming back. Temper tantrums and petitions aren't going to get him back. Beane isn't getting fired unless he does a poor job and the team doesn't move forward in the next few years. All the ones with pitchforks will probably complain about whatever coaching hire they make regardless of who it is. Then they will complain about the draft. Then they will all be back next year watching.

 

Change is scary but its just change and its just football. No sense spending the next year banging pitchforks. Just wait and see what happens.

[SoCal Deek]

52 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Beane has brought it upon himself.  The selective leaking of stories designed to undermine McDummy shows a conniving, vindictive personality.  I am not at all hopeful that Beane can bring the Lombardi to Buffalo.  His complete and utter failure to provide Josh with any weapons other than Cook since he traded Stephon Diggs has been damning.

I have a different take on all of that. I think the Bills (either Beane or McD or both) have been so desperate to find a slightly competent pair of DEs to make McDs ridiculous defense work that they’ve been forced to draft and bring in free agents to the ultimate demise of virtually every other roster spot, including WR. It’s beyond me why it’s been so difficult to get it done…but I do know McDs scheme is sooooo heavily dependent on rushing four and having the other seven sit back in zone, that it’s been a overall roster disaster! 

[strive_for_five_guy]

8 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I have a different take on all of that. I think the Bills (either Beane or McD or both) have been so desperate to find a slightly competent pair of DEs to make McDs ridiculous defense work that they’ve been forced to draft and bring in free agents to the ultimate demise of virtually every other roster spot, including WR. It’s beyond me why it’s been so difficult to get it done…but I do know McDs scheme is sooooo heavily dependent on rushing four and having the other seven sit back in zone, that it’s been a overall roster disaster! 

Maybe the new coaching staff will actually feed our Defensive Ends too.  I’m sick of watching string beans trying to get to the QB.

[SoCal Deek]

4 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Maybe the new coaching staff will actually feed our Defensive Ends too.  I’m sick of watching string beans trying to get to the QB.

Feed them or starve them, but can someone please ask them if they know what the opposing quarterback looks like or where he’s most likely located? 

[SoonerBillsFan]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

People need to grow up. I don’t give a rats arse what the rest of the country thinks about the loveable loser Bills community.  I want to win a freaking Super Bowl! 

The sad thing is we have tons of Bills fans bashing Terry, Beane and Josh.  Many have said they are going to root for whomever McDermott coaches for.

 

Its pathetic 

[Rousseauisnoschmo]

3 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

I think that he will be much better now that McDermott's leash has been removed.

Blaming Beanes shortcomings on McDermott is ridiculous. Your the GM. Your the guy who makes the final call. If you believe your coach is wrong you dont make a bad choice to appease him. Pegula should be embarrassed for even suggesting that. I doubt he built a multi billion dollar company by going along with recommendations he thought were terrible just to appease his subordinates. 

[Mikie2times]

55 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

This is the way.

All the pitchfork stuff is just that. Air your feelings sure but going on tirades for hundreds of posts is a waste of time. McD is gone. Previously most people complaining wanted him fired long ago. He isn't coming back. Temper tantrums and petitions aren't going to get him back. Beane isn't getting fired unless he does a poor job and the team doesn't move forward in the next few years. All the ones with pitchforks will probably complain about whatever coaching hire they make regardless of who it is. Then they will complain about the draft. Then they will all be back next year watching.

 

Change is scary but its just change and its just football. No sense spending the next year banging pitchforks. Just wait and see what happens.

It’s ironic. For many us a cloud has followed around our fandom. We wanted McD gone, but it truly felt like it just wouldn’t happen. The inevitable postseason collapse felt guaranteed. Now I sense different posters here being far more positive. Myself included. While the people that used to die on the hill for McD are now becoming incredibly negative fans.