RocCityRoller Posted January 21 Posted January 21 (edited) I started a 'Is McDermott the right coach' thread back in 2023 on another board. I think it was two years after the 13 seconds game. The team had regressed and the roster was still good, but I saw trends. No team had won a Super Bowl with a QB/HC combo after five years. I compared it to Dungy in Tampa and Reid in Philly. Back in 2021-2022 I was ok dumping the HC for his terrible playoff gaffs. Since then, the roster has regressed and the coach has been better. We won't know how this plays out until McDermott goes elsewhere. It's still a successful run in many ways. Marino and Shula won 5 AFC East titles in the 1980's without winning a Super Bowl. See Elway and Reeves too, but they both made it to the Super Bowl and deserved the benefit of the doubt. Even Reid made one Super Bowl with the Eagles. As the years wore on the Marty Schottenheimer comparison (CLE/ KC) became more apt. It was well past time for the Bills to move on. The chance to move on from just the HC is 1-3 years too late in my opinion. McDermott actually grew as a coach the past two seasons, and the GM regressed. The roster is not as strong as it was back in 2020-2023, and the stakes are higher now. Since that thread McDermott got to another AFC Championship game and another Divisional round. Tomlin, Harbaugh, and Zach Taylor have not done that in the same time period. This made me reevaluate my position. I do think changes were needed. The old phrase is that: "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." Terry Pegula was too patient IMO. Changes were needed 2-3 yrs ago. Moving on from McDermott would have made sense then. That time has passed, and I think a true reevaluation and house cleaning was in order. It boggles the mind that Beane was retained, much less promoted while McDermott was fired and scapegoated. Both should have been shown the door IMO. There is a growing trend here, on Reddit and other spots outlets that McDermott had all of the final say on draft picks and FA signings, so he is to blame for the weak roster. This makes no sense. I find this to be a lot of cope and of little logic. It seems like fans being fanatical and the media being dismal as usual. I will reiterate McDermott was responsible for some of the early post season collapses. He should have been fired then. I thought the time to dump McDermott only was 1-3 years ago. Even then I wasn't sure if it was coaching or roster build (GM). This theory of blaming McDermott for the draft and FA failures reeks of revisionist history and cronyism. I disagree wholeheartedly with it. Beane has been as big a part of these failures since 2020 as McDermott has. If we want to blame McDermott for Personnel let's look to see what if anything McDermott did before Beane, and his 'Carolina connection'. We know for certain that McDermott ran a draft and free agency period before Beane was ever signed. I think if you look at it, the assumption McDermott is the cause for personnel issues doesn't hold up to basic logic or history. Example A: In McDermott's meeting a few weeks ago with Pegula and Beane he told the owner and GM the team lacked the talent to win a Super Bowl. He alluded to it many times over the past year. Would a HC who has the final say in personnel say that to his owner if he had final say in draft picks? No he wouldn't. Example B: McDermott had ONE draft with Whaley (lame duck GM) and Whaley's scouts in 2017. This was a draft McDermott clearly did have final say in. That draft yielded Tre White, Deion Dawkins and Matt Milano. Those are three players who have been cornerstones of this team. That yielded 3 Pro Bowlers, in one draft. Any draft yielding three Pro Bowlers, and an All Pro is a smashing success. The 2017 draft is one of the best in Buffalo Bills history. It was all McDermott. McDermott's one (1) draft yielded 3 Pro Bowl talents. 1 on offense and 2 on defense. All still on the team in 2025. Yes White left, but he came back for the coach who drafted him. Exmple C Since then Beane has had 8 drafts (2018-2025) that have yielded 5 Pro Bowlers total. Allen, Edmunds, Knox, Cook and Teller. Wyatt Teller was cut by Beane, and made the Pro Bowl with Cleveland of all places. 4 offensive Pro Bowlers and 1 defensive Pro Bowler in eight years. I know the Pro Bowl is a questionable metric, but it is a metric. Do people really think that if McDermott had final say on all those Beane picks, he somehow did so much worse in eight drafts, than the one draft he had unquestionable control over???? That is beyond foolish and statistical improbability. 1 yr = 3 Pro Bowlers 8 yrs = 5 Pro Bowlers But the 1 yr guy is the problem.... Eaxample D Let's look at free agency. McDermott was also in charge of the free agency period in 2017, since Beane was hired on May 9, 2017. McDermott's two big FA signings were Jordan Poyer (March 8, 2017) and Micah Hyde (March 9, 2017). They rode in a limo together and thought they were competing for the position. Both of these critical FA signings were two months before Beane was ever hired as GM of the Bills. Both players were role players on the Browns and Packers. It seems McDermott did a nice job finding mid level FAs he could coach up. McDermott completely rebuilt the Bills secondary in 2017, spending a 2nd round pick and 2 mid level FA signings: Tre White (CB): 3x Pro Bowl, Defensive Rookie of the Year (2nd place), 1x 1st team All Pro, 1x 2nd team All Pro, DPOY (5th place) Micah Hyde (S): 2x Pro Bowl. 1x 2nd team All Pro Jordan Poyer (S): 1x Pro Bowl, 1x 1st team All Pro McDermott did that without Beane Imagine if he could have built other units out. Conclusion: McDermott ran one draft (2017) and drafted 3 Pro Bowlers. His FA period landed Poyer and Hyde, both Pro Bowlers and AP first or second team players. Beane drafted Josh Allen and 50+ other players. He has spent over a billion dollars of Pegula's money in Free agency. He has landed 5 Pro Bowl players over 8 seasons. But McDermott got fired and Beane got promoted Now the narrative being promoted is that McDermott was the ring leader, and Beane was helpless in the draft and FA. It doesn't pass the sniff test, it's total BS. McDemott reached his apex here in Buffalo, he deserves some of the blame, and he should have been let go of 1-3 years ago. On the other hand, this blame of McDermott for draft failure and FA signings is revisionist BS. Edited January 21 by RocCityRoller 9 2 6 7 Quote
BananaB Posted January 21 Posted January 21 McD had to play young players early in his career because there was no one here and they basically stripped the team. Since then it’s been less and less. I don’t imagine it’s been Beane wanting to bring back all these recycled players and give them a good amount of field time. Sure he wants his draft picks and FA on the field. There was definitely a divide. And McD might have been in charge of draft but I’m sure he took a lot of advice from Whaleys scouts, it was the whole point of keeping them around until after the draft. And Poyer came in on the advice of one of the Bills assistants that coached him in Cleveland, it also wasn’t all McD 1 2 Quote
NORWOODS FOOT Posted January 21 Posted January 21 Keeping Beane is no good. He drafts high floor / low ceiling guys with “leadership” qualities. He does not draft players with traits that create mismatches. He takes the “safe” road instead of dealing with complexity in pursuit of a championship. His “above average” (nothing spectacular) roster puts all of the pressure on Josh to be perfect. It’s a bull#### strategy that has given us the result we have - wasting the best years of a generational talent. 2 Quote
DaVinci Posted January 21 Posted January 21 7 years of playoff football not one sack. 1 1 1 1 1 1 3 Quote
oldmanfan Posted January 21 Posted January 21 2 minutes ago, NORWOODS FOOT said: Keeping Beane is no good. He drafts high floor / low ceiling guys with “leadership” qualities. He does not draft players with traits that create mismatches. He takes the “safe” road instead of dealing with complexity in pursuit of a championship. His “above average” (nothing spectacular) roster puts all of the pressure on Josh to be perfect. It’s a bull#### strategy that has given us the result we have - wasting the best years of a generational talent. We’ll see now. Did Beane draft guys he wanted and told McD to deal with it, or did the coach tell him what he wanted in a player and he got guys maybe he didn’t necessarily think were the right guys. 6 2 Quote
NORWOODS FOOT Posted January 21 Posted January 21 Just now, oldmanfan said: We’ll see now. Did Beane draft guys he wanted and told McD to deal with it, or did the coach tell him what he wanted in a player and he got guys maybe he didn’t necessarily think were the right guys. The $64k question… As I’ve stated elsewhere, I hope to hell that McD was ultimately making the picks. Quote
H2o Posted January 21 Posted January 21 2 minutes ago, DaVinci said: 7 years of playoff football not one sack. That is not true. We have gotten sacks. A quick google search will tell you the defense has recorded 29 since 2019. 2 Quote
RocCityRoller Posted January 21 Author Posted January 21 Just now, NORWOODS FOOT said: The $64k question… As I’ve stated elsewhere, I hope to hell that McD was ultimately making the picks. How can you think that after the 2107 draft and FA??? 1 Quote
NORWOODS FOOT Posted January 21 Posted January 21 3 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said: How can you think that after the 2107 draft and FA??? Hope against hope… I don’t think that. I feel strongly that Beane was making all the picks, hence my feeling it is a big mistake to keep him. 1 1 Quote
Yobogoya! Posted January 21 Posted January 21 8 minutes ago, DaVinci said: 7 years of playoff football not one sack. That’s definitely not true.. maybe it would be more accurate to say “no sack when it matters.” We never got pressure in crunch time. Plus sacks on early downs worked against us— cuz McD’s philosophy was to back off on third and long and play soft. If I never have to see that again in my life it will be too soon. 6 1 Quote
RocCityRoller Posted January 21 Author Posted January 21 (edited) 12 minutes ago, DaVinci said: 7 years of playoff football not one sack. That was in the playoff losses IIRC McDermott won 8 playoff games and lost 8 Edited January 21 by RocCityRoller 1 1 Quote
The Firebaugh Kid Posted January 21 Posted January 21 The narrative that McD is "behind all these failed draft picks" is being floated to distract and confuse. 2 Quote
H2o Posted January 21 Posted January 21 2 minutes ago, The Firebaugh Kid said: The narrative that McD is "behind all these failed draft picks" is being floated to distract and confuse. Behind ALL of the failed draft picks, he is not. Heavily involved in all of the defensive draft picks, he ABSOLUTELY has been. 3 Quote
The Firebaugh Kid Posted January 21 Posted January 21 Just now, H2o said: Behind ALL of the failed draft picks, he is not. Heavily involved in all of the defensive draft picks, he ABSOLUTELY has been. Which there are some ***** ones, for sure. Boogie, Carter, Elam..... Whoever is driving the bus in rounds 1-2 generally pees down their leg. 2 Quote
Walking Tall Posted January 21 Posted January 21 All I can do is laugh at people that think Sean McDermott wasn’t heavily involved in personnel decisions. 3 4 1 2 Quote
Gunner Posted January 21 Posted January 21 17 minutes ago, Yobogoya! said: That’s definitely not true.. maybe it would be more accurate to say “no sack when it matters.” We never got pressure in crunch time. Plus sacks on early downs worked against us— cuz McD’s philosophy was to back off on third and long and play soft. If I never have to see that again in my life it will be too soon. Yep, if it was 3rd and (anything over 13 yards,) I knew the opposing team was getting the first down. 1 2 Quote
Avisan Posted January 21 Posted January 21 17 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said: That was in the playoff losses IIRC McDermott won 8 playoff games and lost 8 That part isn't true either, the Bills have had several sacks in playoff losses. The "problem" is that they were due to blitzes etc. and our front 4 routinely struggle to get home to the QB. 2 Quote
Buffalo ill Posted January 21 Posted January 21 29 minutes ago, NORWOODS FOOT said: It’s a bull#### strategy that has given us the result we have - wasting the best years of a generational talent. One could also say the "generational talent" qb and pro bowl running back turning the ball over multiple times in a playoff game isn't necessarily the fault of the gm. Not saying the coach is responsible for bad fumbles, but he does actually have the ability to emphasize ball security in practice. Quote
Sweats Posted January 21 Posted January 21 Two parties taking sides, one side saying one thing, the other side saying something else. Neither side is right or wrong, but where does the truth lie?........i'd say somewhere in the middle. I wholeheartedly believe that Beane and McD were heavily involved in draft decisions together. Beane leans on the scouts to give him some insight, McD informs Beane the type of player he wants, and Beane pulls the trigger. I believe that McD holds the sway in who or who doesn't get drafted. Sure, maybe it was Beane who announced the draft pick, but i still believe that McD was the one who chose it.........this is what makes sense to me. I don't for one minute believe that Beane went rogue without any understanding of the roster that McD wanted to build, without conversing with McD first. It's not like Beane said, "I have no idea of the direction that you are trying to build your roster, but here you go, Sean........now do something with these guys that i gave you". McD would have some input into the roster he was trying to build, i 100% believe that and ultimately, the downfall of the talent or the roster not being up to par lies with him. Ole Sweats........over and out 1 5 Quote
RocCityRoller Posted January 21 Author Posted January 21 9 minutes ago, Walking Tall said: All I can do is laugh at people that think Sean McDermott wasn’t heavily involved in personnel decisions. We know for a fact McDermott was in charge in 2017. How did that pan out? Pretty well. How has it been since? Bad. But blame the guy who was successful... We will soon see who was responsible. 1 Quote
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