Pegula and Beane believes the roster wasn't the problem - Link

[Einstein]

Just now, PrimeTime101 said:

Im sorry.. I like Jeremy white... But the amount of stuff that he has passed on from so called credible people have been wrong so many times i do not have toes and fingers to count.  And I love Jeremy. but no where in the links does Vic even say this

 

 

Ross Tucker said this. Verbatim. From his sources which have been notoriously correct. It wasn’t from Vic.

[TNBills]

I've been trying to be rational about this and I am trying to give it time for more information to come out before making a true judgment. The thing about this team is Beane has overhauled this roster now several times with success and failure. While he makes the pick, you can't convince me that McDermott didn't have a very large say on who the picks were to fit his system. On D we have drafted the same types of players over and over to fit. The FA brought in that have had success elsewhere seem to never work out here (Puna Ford, Tim Settle, Oganjobi, Curtis Samuel, MVS, Hardman, Bosa). Some of these guys can't even see the field here. That is the coaches decision and failure. When we wanted a high power throw it all over the field offense, the roster was built that way and it worked, but our defense was avg to below. Then we wanted to go 2TE and ground and pound, so the roster transitioned to that and the Receivers room suffered but the run game explodes and the defense still is avg to below. I'm statrting to get on the side that this is the starting point of what really needed to happen. 

I love what McDermott did here as far as culture and turning this team around. I thank him for that, but at the same time am accepting that you can't have a defensive head coach who consistently puts out an avg to well below avg defense in the playoffs each and every year. I think we have give up well over teams season avg in points in the last 3-4 playoff losses. 

[SectionC3]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree that is the reason for keeping the GM especially if you are targeting (as the reports indicate they are) a coach who is still working and they can't hire quickly. 

Keeping and promoting are two different things.  I think that's part of the reason there's angst here.  It's one thing to reallocate responsibilities.  It's another to affirmatively promote.  

[Beck Water]

33 minutes ago, Virgil said:

 

If this is true, I'm incredibly concerned.  The consensus by pretty much everyone is that the roster was not up to par this year and Josh was having to do too much.  If this meeting really happened and led to McD getting fired because Pegula believes Beane did enough, that I'm more worried than I was yesterday.  

 

If the people making the decisions and survived this exodus believe our issues were not roster related, I don't know how to trust any decisions they make going forward.  

 

There are two interpretations of this:
1) McDermott pointed out that the roster is missing pieces needed for a championship team.  Beane and Pegula believe that the roster is good enough, so they fired McDermott
2) McDermott pointed out what pieces (in his opinion) are missing for a championship team.  Beane and Pegula are aware that the roster is missing pieces, but Beane disagrees with McDermott's assessment

1) would be a ticket back to mediocrity

2) would be a personnel development and utilization issue.  

There have been some weirdnesses around 2) where players who couldn't sniff the field in Buffalo are suddenly tearing it up when they go elsewhere.  For example, Poona Ford played 8 games with the Bills, could barely see the field, and played 151 snaps (like 19 snaps per game).  He didn't look good.  Next year he goes to the chargers, plays half the snaps, and is looking pretty good from what I saw.  This year he's playing in the NFC championship game with the Rams and I was watching him going "huh, wait, is that the guy we moved on from because he couldn't find his way through wet tissue paper let alone an OL?"

 

[Low Positive]

5 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I could understand that… but PROMOTING him!?

It's not a promotion. They gave him a new title that actually describes what he was already doing. He already was at the top of the org chart, reporting only to the owner. He has no new responsibilities.

Edited January 20 by Low Positive

[MasterStrategist]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I am only going on what was reported. Which is that Miami felt there was a deal to be done but it started with a 2026 1st and Beane was only willing to offer a 2027 1st. 

 

I have told you the extent to which I believe the demands and veto story stacks up based on actual conversations with people who WERE in those rooms with the two of them. 

 

As for the final paragraph, McDermott got to the point where I think the balance of evidence supported him being fired. I haven't disputed that. 

Point is, we know what's being reported isnt "gospel" ---- people pick and choose what to believe or what they want to be true.

 

JMO, but I highly doubt Miami was even interested in moving Waddle to a division rival.  In division trades are rare, even more rare to trade a borderline blue chip WR to your nemesis.

 

Bottom line, the WR problem should've been a bigger deal and solved prior to training camp.  How they ended up where they are, is anyone's guess on who wanted who/etc.

 

But the good thing, is now we can separate the McBeane combo and truly see what Beane solely brings.  Its been overdue to change the org structure, and I have full faith in Beane

[henry jones]

All I know is McDermott was not guiltless in all of this.  I liked him, and he obviously was a "good guy".  But on the defensive side of the ball, you can't tell me that he didn't have a say in who he wanted for his scheme.  The smaller, quicker guys were who he preferred and fit right into his "bend but don't break" scheme.  Problem is, they broke way too often, literally and figuratively.  IMO this is the reason why they were always hurt.  Now on the offensive side of the ball, that appears to be all on Beane.

[Heavy Kevi]

22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

McDermott is right. It wasn't enough to save his skin. He didn't have to win the Superbowl. He had to not lose to Bo Nix. Maybe he'd have been fired anyway with an AFCCG loss, but who knows? 

 

But on the roster McDermott is right and Beane and Pegula are wrong. 

 

You have no way to know that.

 

The claim made here is NOT "McD says the roster isn't good enough, and beane + Pegula think it is"

 

It says mcd "pointed out what the roster lacked" and that Beane and Terry didn't agree with his assessment.

 

What if Sean said we need to draft DE, LB, and Safety and Beane and Terry thought offensive weapons were more important? I'm not saying that's what was discussed, only that we don't know. It could just be a difference in vision for what's needed more.

 

What if they believe something along the lines of what Matt Parrino said yesterday, that the defense has been invested in over and over again and it's time to invest in the offense? Maybe Beane wants to draft 14 kickers and trade the entire Oline? Obviously I'm being facetious here, purposefully so to make the point.

 

We have no idea of specifics and that report doesn't infer either way, though of course it is framed in a way to make it look binary. Let's also take into account this is from 550, and that post specifically from Jeremy White, who already has a frosty relationship with Beane for obvious reasons and may have animus.

 

I'm not actually taking Beanes side here just pointing out the facts. I know a lot of people are upset, and for the most part Buffalo media, both independent and professional were like a funeral yesterday.

 

I won't even get into the argument about how if the refs don't steal the Cooks reception from us we are playing a NE team who we've already beaten in that stadium this year to go to the SB, which if we won would empirically prove this roster was "good enough"... But will stop short because we didn't and we aren't. But it obviously wasn't far off, even if you credit McD with that assessment.

 

But we don't have anywhere near the information needed to make the statement you made.

[Beck Water]

3 minutes ago, TNBills said:

I've been trying to be rational about this and I am trying to give it time for more information to come out before making a true judgment. The thing about this team is Beane has overhauled this roster now several times with success and failure. While he makes the pick, you can't convince me that McDermott didn't have a very large say on who the picks were to fit his system. On D we have drafted the same types of players over and over to fit. The FA brought in that have had success elsewhere seem to never work out here (Puna Ford, Tim Settle, Oganjobi, Curtis Samuel, MVS, Hardman, Bosa). Some of these guys can't even see the field here. That is the coaches decision and failure. When we wanted a high power throw it all over the field offense, the roster was built that way and it worked, but our defense was avg to below. Then we wanted to go 2TE and ground and pound, so the roster transitioned to that and the Receivers room suffered but the run game explodes and the defense still is avg to below. I'm statrting to get on the side that this is the starting point of what really needed to happen. 

I love what McDermott did here as far as culture and turning this team around. I thank him for that, but at the same time am accepting that you can't have a defensive head coach who consistently puts out an avg to well below avg defense in the playoffs each and every year. I think we have give up well over teams season avg in points in the last 3-4 playoff losses. 

Would just like to point out that in 2021 (1), 2022 (2), and 2023 (4) the Bills D was not "average to below".  

What it was, is "average to below IN THE PLAYOFFS"

[SectionC3]

7 minutes ago, Billsfed1 said:

If true, don’t like that at all.  The team has obvious needs at receiver and defensive end…if this is what McDermott was saying and Beane said that’s not the case and Terry sided with Beane on that, we’re in trouble.

I don't read White's comment that way.  What I do read is that whatever happened behind closed doors really pissed off Pegula.  I don't know how everyone doesn't see that with the crappy, disrespectful statement the Bills released re: the firing.  

 

One of the things I'm wondering now is if McD gets blackballed this year.  Doors are starting to close on openings, and--again, based on the statement--I'm not convinced that the Bills aren't going to MF him this time around.  It's against their pecuniary interests to do so, but I'm getting the sense that something got ugly along the way.  I'm not convinced Sean is working as a HC this year.  

7 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Our cap situation is a mess.

 

We have something like 37 players under contract and $4M in space.  We're going to have to double down and borrow more money from the future to make this work next year.

 

IMO, even if McD had the roster day Beane seems to be implying, the likelihood of McD being in charge of the cap is near zero.

It's gonna be a mess as long as there's a $55m QB and essentially two $20 tackles.  It's life.  Gotta figure it out with youth and either better drafting, better assimilation, or both. 

[Brand J]

43 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

I mean, if McD was insisting this roster wasn’t good enough, he was wrong.  This team was a play away from playing the Pats to go to the Super Bowl, who we beat this season.

I was coming here to say the Patriots don’t have a roster that is head and shoulders above the Bills either. I wouldn’t call that a SB roster, but luck, coaching, and consistency has them on the doorstep in Vrabel’s first year.

[DrDawkinstein]

Oh good, more gnashing and over-reaction by the fans clinging to McDermott, and taking it out on our own guys...

 

Look, we have no idea what this "assessment" even was, or what was even really said. What we do know is that Beane tries to improve the roster every year, and frankly, every day. And he will obviously continue to do so.

 

As others have pointed out, Beane and Pegula could have not been thrilled with McD's comments since this is likely the roster HE HAS ASKED FOR. 

 

It could also have simply been that it isnt a great look for the HC to point fingers. I'm sure Beane never pointed out any of the MANY 3rd and Longs McDefense gave up due to poor defensive play calling. Own your ***** and take care of your own side.

 

It doesnt matter. McDermott failed to get it done on many levels. A change has been made. Onward and upward.

 

Suck it up, people.

[SectionC3]

3 minutes ago, Heavy Kevi said:

 

You have no way to know that.

 

The claim made here is NOT "McD says the roster isn't good enough, and beane + Pegula think it is"

 

It says mcd "pointed out what the roster lacked" and that Beane and Terry didn't agree with his assessment.

 

What if Sean said we need to draft DE, LB, and Safety and Beane and Terry thought offensive weapons were more important? I'm not saying that's what was discussed, only that we don't know. It could just be a difference in vision for what's needed more.

 

What if they believe something along the lines of what Matt Parrino said yesterday, that the defense has been invested in over and over again and it's time to invest in the offense? Maybe Beane wants to draft 14 kickers and trade the entire Oline? Obviously I'm being facetious here, purposefully so to make the point.

 

We have no idea of specifics and that report doesn't infer either way, though of course it is framed in a way to make it look binary. Let's also take into account this is from 550, and that post specifically from Jeremy White, who already has a frosty relationship with Beane for obvious reasons and may have animus.

 

I'm not actually taking Beanes side here just pointing out the facts. I know a lot of people are upset, and for the most part Buffalo media, both independent and professional were like a funeral yesterday.

 

I won't even get into the argument about how if the refs don't steal the Cooks reception from us we are playing a NE team who we've already beaten in that stadium this year to go to the SB, which if we won would empirically prove this roster was "good enough"... But will stop short because we didn't and we aren't. But it obviously wasn't far off, even if you credit McD with that assessment.

 

But we don't have anywhere near the information needed to make the statement you made.

That's right, and it's why McD was fired.  We'll never find out because he couldn't beat Bo Nix when we had every opportunity to do so.  It may be that McD was right, but he didn't get us to the place where he could prove his point.  

[TNBills]

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

Would just like to point out that in 2021 (1), 2022 (2), and 2023 (4) the Bills D was not "average to below".  

What it was, is "average to below IN THE PLAYOFFS"

I specifically stated that they were avg to below avg in the playoffs.

[SectionC3]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

Oh good, more gnashing and over-reaction by the fans clinging to McDermott, and taking it out on our own guys...

 

Look, we have no idea what this "assessment" even was, or what was even really said. What we do know is that Beane tries to improve the roster every year, and frankly, every day. And he will obviously continue to do so.

 

As others have pointed out, Beane and Pegula could have not been thrilled with McD's comments since this is likely the roster HE HAS ASKED FOR. 

 

It could also have simply been that it isnt a great look for the HC to point fingers. I'm sure Beane never pointed out any of the MANY 3rd and Longs McDefense gave up due to poor defensive play calling. Own your ***** and take care of your own side.

 

It doesnt matter. McDermott failed to get it done on many levels. A change has been made. Onward and upward.

 

Suck it up, people.

This is where I'm at.  I think, personally, Beane is a douche and Sean is a self-preservationist.  The self-preservationist act wore out before the douche act has worn out.  I would have done this inversely, but the Bills didn't.  Time to get busy "livin'" in the new paradigm. 

[Low Positive]

Just now, Brand J said:

I was coming here to say the Patriots don’t have a roster that is head and shoulders above the Bills either. I wouldn’t call that a SB roster, but luck, coaching, and consistency has them on the doorstep in Vrabel’s first year.

Don't underestimate the luck portion of that. They had major injury luck all year. They played the Bengals the week before Burrow came back and got them without Chase. They just played the Texans without their only offensive weapon and will now get the Broncos with a backup QB. And that's just off the top of my head.

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, Brand J said:

I was coming here to say the Patriots don’t have a roster that is head and shoulders above the Bills either. I wouldn’t call that a SB roster, but luck, coaching, and consistency has them on the doorstep in Vrabel’s first year.

 

Nor Seattle's, and they have Mike frickin Macdonald as a HC.

[MiltonWaddams]

McDermott, Beane and Pegula have a meeting together. McDermott is fired. The following day this news comes out. So, unless someone had a wire tap, this news was let out by somebody. Any guesses who? I’m not saying that the meeting didn’t happen and I’m not saying it absolutely went down any different than was described. What I am saying is that this has to be a biased take.

[Marcus Aurelius]

50 minutes ago, DaggersEOD said:

Man I’m hating it but I’m feeling a new drought coming on. This sucks. 

I agree with you.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, and I know it's a little nuts, but I also feel like someone close to me has passed away 😕 

 

[MiltonWaddams]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Nor Seattle's, and they have Mike frickin Macdonald as a HC.

Seattle’s roster is absolutely superior. Look at the defense! Youth, speed and power across the board. They have been excellent at drafting the last 4 years and it shows.