Maybe It's Good the Players Are Not Happy

[Mr. WEO]

18 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

So without having access to the final result and for all you know you will absolutely need that +3 points, still don’t try to score before halftime if you’re trailing by 7 or less… got it.  At what point do you try to score before halftime if you’re the coach? Would 30 seconds do it? 40? If the pass to get you into fg range is 20 yards instead of 25 etc.  

 

I think people flubbed this one and didn’t understand fg was a pretty probable result being at mile high and starting at the 30 to be honest with you and now they’re just super dug in about it. Romo even goofed there imo..I think most coaches in the league have a convo with the kicker, know it takes x time to spike and if they can use the whole field and spike and have a reasonable shot at a fg it’s an easy go scenario.  That’s a really really low risk situation…deep INT doesn’t hurt, grounding doesn’t hurt, incompletion doesn’t hurt, Josh running some and sliding doesn’t hurt, incomplete pass doesn’t hurt.  Heck even one shot down the sideline is worth it if you don’t think you can spike.  If you’re starting on the 20 obviously that changes everything.  Then a fg isn’t really as feasible 

 

do you always take a knee because your qb can fumble on a completely routine minimal risk play that any qb in the league can execute? 

 

 

you are the only one here who thinks a FG in that scenario was "pretty probable".  The Bills already fumbled the ball away once in the 2nd Q leading to a Broncos TD.

 

Josh wouldn't have been throwing a "deep" ball if, as you say, the plan was to set up for a long FG.  So any pass and any scenario where Josh runs/slides/whatever can potentially lead to loss of ball and points.  They turned it over 5 times!  

 

To answer the bolded--absolutely, because even the best QB in the NFL 2 years running can cough up the ball (Allen has 14 fumbles in 15 playoff games).  You take the one score deficit into the locker room and beat them the second half--like the Bills do nearly every game.  It's really that simple.

 

McDermott just got fired over this.  But keep on railing!

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

32 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

you are the only one here who thinks a FG in that scenario was "pretty probable".  The Bills already fumbled the ball away once in the 2nd Q leading to a Broncos TD.

 

Josh wouldn't have been throwing a "deep" ball if, as you say, the plan was to set up for a long FG.  So any pass and any scenario where Josh runs/slides/whatever can potentially lead to loss of ball and points.  They turned it over 5 times!  

 

To answer the bolded--absolutely, because even the best QB in the NFL 2 years running can cough up the ball (Allen has 14 fumbles in 15 playoff games).  You take the one score deficit into the locker room and beat them the second half--like the Bills do nearly every game.  It's really that simple.

 

McDermott just got fired over this.  But keep on railing!

I genuinely don’t think I am haha but we can be full agree to disagree that’s fine.  I have seen many other coaches go in that situation. If you don’t like the semantics of pretty probable and want to swap it to ‘way way more likely than the bad outcome’ I’m fine with that that’s more than I meant..  it wasn’t some obscenely unlikely miracle situation by any means like it’s being described.  One 25 yard play and you’ve got a shot which I don’t think people are even understanding 

I don’t think you’d have the majority on your ‘you’re down 7 who cares about scoring points before halftime’ point personally…that is an absolutely wild one 

 

Honestly I’ve been mocking the trade Josh people ruthlessly but if you can’t run a ‘throw it deep to anyone an INT is fine even’ type play (which he has done many times) because you’re worried about him nonsensically taking off without protecting the football something is very very wrong here..  I think it’s more the moment got him and it won’t happen again but if what you’re suggesting is true I wouldn’t trust him in a lot of different situations..  that’s an absolute layup/completely routine play 

 

what he did exceeded the worst case scenario that any coach would predict about any qb in that situation by like tenfold..  it was a mindnumbingly stupid decision by Josh and probably his worst ever.  Even scramble some yards protecting the ball and fumble then Denver falls on it isn’t nearly that bad lol. This dude let the fumble get launched 30 yards backwards because he’s swinging his arm like a maniac 

 

Zero shot mcd was fired for that specifically…absolutely zero 

Edited January 20 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[SoonerBillsFan]

4 hours ago, mjt328 said:

Six straight seasons of basically the EXACT SAME result.

Start strong.  Slump mid-season (costing us the bye).  Finish strong and end with 11-13 wins. 

Wild card victory.  Loss in the divisional or championship round.

 

Something had to change.  It would be insanity to think otherwise.

 

It is well known that players liked Sean McDermott.  He was a player's coach, who created a family-atmosphere in the locker room.

Lots of veterans (Poyer, White, etc.) came back here because of how much they loved playing on this kind of team.

Coaches also liked being here, because McDermott liked promoting in-house, instead of exploring all options outside the organization.

 

But maybe that approach was ultimately part of the problem.  Maybe it led to the team being too comfortable and complacent.

Maybe Josh Allen doesn't need a buddy on the sidelines.  Maybe he needs someone that's going to challenge him to reach the next level.

 

The most successful franchise in NFL history had an unbearable jerk on the sideline, who everyone hated.  Just something to think about.

 

It was too much that way.  We lacked  discipline and that showed.   

[jaybills]

2 hours ago, tigerthelion said:

Agree about Daboll. I don't trust Daboll to lead a team.  He is too much of a hothead. 

Daboll is a failed head coach. No thanks. 

[billieve420]

Too much kumbaya with the opposing teams. I want a nasty physical defense that other teams hate playing. Denver was much more aggressive going after the ball. Within the rules of the game punish the other team and break their spirits.

[Livinginthepast]

4 hours ago, mjt328 said:

Six straight seasons of basically the EXACT SAME result.

Start strong.  Slump mid-season (costing us the bye).  Finish strong and end with 11-13 wins. 

Wild card victory.  Loss in the divisional or championship round.

 

Something had to change.  It would be insanity to think otherwise.

 

It is well known that players liked Sean McDermott.  He was a player's coach, who created a family-atmosphere in the locker room.

Lots of veterans (Poyer, White, etc.) came back here because of how much they loved playing on this kind of team.

Coaches also liked being here, because McDermott liked promoting in-house, instead of exploring all options outside the organization.

 

But maybe that approach was ultimately part of the problem.  Maybe it led to the team being too comfortable and complacent.

Maybe Josh Allen doesn't need a buddy on the sidelines.  Maybe he needs someone that's going to challenge him to reach the next level.

 

The most successful franchise in NFL history had an unbearable jerk on the sideline, who everyone hated.  Just something to think about.

 

Totally agree McD was really positive in some areas but accountability was not really his strong suit for his own work and some of the player performances. He hit his ceiling and the journey was over. I dont want Josh to be Dan Marino at the end of his career with a ton of accolades but no SB ring.

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Pegula and Beane concluded it.  So I'm at least as smart as they are lol.

Yeah….thats saying a lot

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

It was a plan that had nearly no chance to succeed--no timeouts, 20 seconds from your own 30.  To what, change the deficit from 7 to 4 before the half--for a team known to score much higher in the second half (they outscored the Broncos 20-13 in the second half).  The chance of success was so low that it could not justify the risk of the worst outcome--turnover and Broncos score before the half.  Those 3 points were the difference in the game.

 

It was a monumentally dumb risk to take.  I beleive it's why McD was fired.  I said it that night--a fireable offense and I was right.

You know what was even dumber?  What Josh Allen did.  That was one of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen him do. That’s saying a lot
 

I don’t know what their “pan” was on that play.  I would’ve taken a deep shot with hope of a completion or a PI then a FG.  
 

I get the sentiment “they should’ve downed it”.  But those saying that that play was all on McD, I don’t agree.  It’s on him and Josh.  

[Rocbillsfan1]

They have no one to blame for themselves. Poor player decisions and performances have to have consequences. Team needs to get serious. Time to button it up or get cut/traded.

[transient]

6 hours ago, NewEra said:

Ironic that in McDermotts final game-the player that may have saved his job over the last 6 years under threw multiple important passes and had 4 turnovers that directly led to the loss.  2 of the under throws were interceptions (yes, the cooks interception was underthrown and a better pass = game over).  

funny how the world works.  Especially the world of the Buffalo Bills.  

 

The more I think about Allen's performance versus how he has otherwise played in the playoffs throughout his career the more I wonder how much knee, ankle, and throwing hand injuries contributed to that performance ("rookie Allen" prancing around with his ball dangling out there to end the half, aside). He wasn't way off, but he was off.

[Mr. WEO]

16 hours ago, NewEra said:

You know what was even dumber?  What Josh Allen did.  That was one of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen him do. That’s saying a lot
 

I don’t know what their “pan” was on that play.  I would’ve taken a deep shot with hope of a completion or a PI then a FG.  
 

I get the sentiment “they should’ve downed it”.  But those saying that that play was all on McD, I don’t agree.  It’s on him and Josh.  

 

the best players make mistakes.  players fumble, they throw INTs.  it's impossible to prevent that.....unless you simply don't give them the opportunity to do so in a situation where you clearly don't need them to risk it.  Josh didn't call make that call, McD did.  

 

 

it really is that simple.  game lost.

[wppete]

Which players are not happy? Other than Shaq Lawson I haven’t seen anything out there? Anyone know? 

[Captain Murica]

45 minutes ago, wppete said:

Which players are not happy? Other than Shaq Lawson I haven’t seen anything out there? Anyone know? 

Some posted stuff on their IG stories. Als had Joe Marino on his podcast stating Josh Allen wasn’t happy with the McD firing. Which I get from a human standpoint, but there is no way Josh is not partly thinking maybe they’ll get a defense that shows up in the playoffs. 

Edited January 21 by Captain Murica

[BRH]

3rd and 11 got him fired.

 

Everything else contributed, including the halftime decision, not helping Savage and Jackson during their cameos, and running James Cook into the line with Surtain on the sidelines, but only led up to that singular moment.

 

To not make the ONE stop that would have exponentially increased win probability — and to not even come CLOSE — was unforgivable.  And it was absolutely in line with everything else that’s happened, including 13 seconds.

 

Make that stop and we’re most likely talking about the Patriots right now.

 

When I saw that expanse of green around Sutton, I knew.  I didn’t want to admit it in the moment.  But I knew.

 

3rd and 11 got him fired.

 

 

[eball]

13 minutes ago, Captain Murica said:

Joe Marino on his podcast stating Josh Allen wasn’t happy with the McD firing

 

I don’t think there is a player or person associated with the Bills organization who is “happy” about the firing.  It’s sort of a ridiculous statement because everyone respected McD and knows he is a good man.

 

There’s an enormous difference between feeling empathy for a guy losing his job, and understanding that something needs to happen to take this team to the next level.

 

If Josh “wasn’t happy” it’s simply because he’s a human being and feels for McD.  But as has been stated often in this forum over the past two days, there is no way Josh didn’t “green light” the move in one way or another.

 

[NewEra]

44 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

the best players make mistakes.  players fumble, they throw INTs.  it's impossible to prevent that.....unless you simply don't give them the opportunity to do so in a situation where you clearly don't need them to risk it.  Josh didn't call make that call, McD did.  

 

 

it really is that simple.  game lost.

Of course it’s that simple when you’re a McD hater.  It serves your purpose perfectly, so of course you’re going to say that.  
 

 

[Captain Murica]

23 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I don’t think there is a player or person associated with the Bills organization who is “happy” about the firing.  It’s sort of a ridiculous statement because everyone respected McD and knows he is a good man.

 

There’s an enormous difference between feeling empathy for a guy losing his job, and understanding that something needs to happen to take this team to the next level.

 

If Josh “wasn’t happy” it’s simply because he’s a human being and feels for McD.  But as has been stated often in this forum over the past two days, there is no way Josh didn’t “green light” the move in one way or another.

 

Yup, it’s from a human stand point. No way, they make this move from a football standpoint if they knew Josh was going to be upset. The wouldn’t have done it, also, Josh must’ve given some sort of okay to move on. Not that they needed it, but last thing they need is him requesting out. 

[Mr. WEO]

14 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Of course it’s that simple when you’re a McD hater.  It serves your purpose perfectly, so of course you’re going to say that.  
 

 

 

you can never really make an argument beyond the above.  millimeters deep...

 

Bills ownership confirmed what many of us already suspected--McD was never going to get this QB and this team to the SB.  You still struggle with this, as you always do with the obvious.  

 

McD was fired.  It wasn't because the reigning MVP was careless with the ball.

[Avisan]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

the best players make mistakes.  players fumble, they throw INTs.  it's impossible to prevent that.....unless you simply don't give them the opportunity to do so in a situation where you clearly don't need them to risk it.  Josh didn't call make that call, McD did.  

 

 

it really is that simple.  game lost.

Buddy...

 

It's insane to NOT try to score points with 16s left in the half in an elimination game.  That's time for 1-2 deep shots and a FG/hail Mary attemp.  You need to be able to trust your franchise QB to throw the ball away or go down if the play isn't there.

 

If you're being honest with yourself, you know that if his hypothetical explanation for kneeling the ball was "I was worried Allen would fumble the ball" then you would have criticized him endlessly for being gutless.

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, Avisan said:

Buddy...

 

It's insane to NOT try to score points with 16s left in the half in an elimination game.  That's time for 1-2 deep shots and a FG/hail Mary attemp.  You need to be able to trust your franchise QB to throw the ball away or go down if the play isn't there.

 

If you're being honest with yourself, you know that if his hypothetical explanation for kneeling the ball was "I was worried Allen would fumble the ball" then you would have criticized him endlessly for being gutless.

 

Wrong yet againI said at the time here on this board (and since) that he needs to just take a knee. Agreeing with Romo actually lol

 

why? because:

 

football is a game of analytics.  you have to balance the very unlikely possibility of scoring 3 points (when down by 7 with half a football game yet to play with the best 2nd half team in the NFL that will get the ball to start the half) with the worst possible outcome--turnover leading to points.

 

The situation didn't call for that risk (obviously) so simply saying  "you always go for it...buddy" isn't a solid comeback.