Maybe It's Good the Players Are Not Happy

[LarryMadman]

12 minutes ago, NewEra said:

lol.  No it was not.  He had him beat and cooks had to downshift and come back for the ball.  

Yup god forbid Josh didnt throw a perfect pass 50 yards down field, as he should have thrown 52 yards instead of 51 yards, SMDH! The blame and pettiness some people have when a human being is only perfect 90% of the time is mind boggeling!

Edited January 20 by LarryMadman

[BuffaloBillyG]

7 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Putting trust in Josh Allen not making

 

even if you want to put that on McD…. Fine.  The other FOUR turnovers were not his fault.  Those other turnovers led to 13 points.

And that's fair. Turnover issues were not good. 

 

However, pinning the loss solely on turnovers is rather short sighted. But combination of those plus poor coaching plus poor calls is really what combined for the loss. If any of those 3 are better, we win the game. Coaching was possibly the most avoidable IMO 

[MrEpsYtown]

6 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I always found player content to be completely overrated. At much lower levels I had plenty of coaches I didn't like to play for. But they always seemed to be on teams that performed the best. In this instance, you have to think as an NFL player change or lack of predictability is undesirable. It's a very difficult sport. You're always thinking you will be cut. You want to have some idea of what's coming each training camp. So of course this isn't desirable to them. But change creates discomfort and that creates growth. I have no issue at all if they all hate it. It means nothing. 

 

I'm a high school coach. I assume half of my players don't like me and all of the parents hate me. Makes it easier to get through if you keep emotion out of it. 

[T master]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

Six straight seasons of basically the EXACT SAME result.

Start strong.  Slump mid-season (costing us the bye).  Finish strong and end with 11-13 wins. 

Wild card victory.  Loss in the divisional or championship round.

 

Something had to change.  It would be insanity to think otherwise.

 

It is well known that players liked Sean McDermott.  He was a player's coach, who created a family-atmosphere in the locker room.

Lots of veterans (Poyer, White, etc.) came back here because of how much they loved playing on this kind of team.

Coaches also liked being here, because McDermott liked promoting in-house, instead of exploring all options outside the organization.

 

But maybe that approach was ultimately part of the problem.  Maybe it led to the team being too comfortable and complacent.

Maybe Josh Allen doesn't need a buddy on the sidelines.  Maybe he needs someone that's going to challenge him to reach the next level.

 

The most successful franchise in NFL history had an unbearable jerk on the sideline, who everyone hated.  Just something to think about.

 

And all for what has turned out to be a very ungrateful fan base that did nothing but continually slam him at every turn !!

 

I hope he goes somewhere where  the fans actually appreciate him and his teams whips the Bills ass every time (because of the ungrateful opinions) his teams play the Bills just for spite for all the haters !! 

 

I find it very hard that the man that basically helped give this fan base a new stadium, 8 winning seasons and many AFC east division championships & is the winningest coach in franchise history gets slammed as much as he has here which proves just how ungrateful this fan base really is ! 

[sunshynman]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

Six straight seasons of basically the EXACT SAME result.

Start strong.  Slump mid-season (costing us the bye).  Finish strong and end with 11-13 wins. 

Wild card victory.  Loss in the divisional or championship round.

 

Something had to change.  It would be insanity to think otherwise.

 

It is well known that players liked Sean McDermott.  He was a player's coach, who created a family-atmosphere in the locker room.

Lots of veterans (Poyer, White, etc.) came back here because of how much they loved playing on this kind of team.

Coaches also liked being here, because McDermott liked promoting in-house, instead of exploring all options outside the organization.

 

But maybe that approach was ultimately part of the problem.  Maybe it led to the team being too comfortable and complacent.

Maybe Josh Allen doesn't need a buddy on the sidelines.  Maybe he needs someone that's going to challenge him to reach the next level.

 

The most successful franchise in NFL history had an unbearable jerk on the sideline, who everyone hated.  Just something to think about.

 

Belcheat proved he was the best at cheating the system. They were succesful because of that, an owner with zero scruples, and Tom Brady. 

 

The problem is, Beane isn't sharing the blame by being promoted. I think we will find out fast, if McD had too much power over player personnel. 

 

The first task, nail the coaching staff. Then what we do at WR will be a big tell. If we don't pull a trade at FA for a #1 talent. Or take a swing in the draft for one. Then we see drafting strategy was truly Beane's all along. The offseason got interesting, that's for sure. Hard decisions need to be made with the roster. And how the players perceive this change will be huge.

[Ga boy]

2 minutes ago, jaybills said:

Snag Belichick from UNC and make it happen. He'll have the defense clicking and Josh Allen held accountable for rookie mistakes he continually makes. 

Yes I think he would bring a drastic change in culture. He has the credibility to tell and not ask.  I think Vrabel has the same approach.  A reset in tone/culture would definitely be a shock to the system.  Belicheck has forgotten more about football than these young guys even know.  I would be on board with BB, and I think he’d love sticking it to the Pats.

[JP51]

There is no doubt change was needed... I dont like what Beane has done, nor do I like the overall results on the field... I am not sure we have done enough, but in the end I think Beane gets this year to prove his theory... I am not confident without some significant change with the over all make up of this team it will lead to success... but regardless of what I or anyone else thinks we are going to find out... 

[bmur66]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

Six straight seasons of basically the EXACT SAME result.

Start strong.  Slump mid-season (costing us the bye).  Finish strong and end with 11-13 wins. 

Wild card victory.  Loss in the divisional or championship round.

 

Something had to change.  It would be insanity to think otherwise.

 

It is well known that players liked Sean McDermott.  He was a player's coach, who created a family-atmosphere in the locker room.

Lots of veterans (Poyer, White, etc.) came back here because of how much they loved playing on this kind of team.

Coaches also liked being here, because McDermott liked promoting in-house, instead of exploring all options outside the organization.

 

But maybe that approach was ultimately part of the problem.  Maybe it led to the team being too comfortable and complacent.

Maybe Josh Allen doesn't need a buddy on the sidelines.  Maybe he needs someone that's going to challenge him to reach the next level.

 

The most successful franchise in NFL history had an unbearable jerk on the sideline, who everyone hated.  Just something to think about.

 

Who is Allen’s buddy on the sideline? All I ever saw was him sitting on the bench by himself with no coach in his ear or head. Maybe Trubisky when they were ahead but nobody was there to get him out of a funk.

[stlbills13]

A shakeup was needed. Not quite sure they got it fully right though. 

[Puckman5]

49 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

My hope is that a new voice in the locker room will focus everyone and prevent those lapses as we saw in Atlanta and Miami. There is no excuse for playing that badly in those two games. After the Miami game, the general comment from the Bills was that "they wanted it more." HOW!!!! How could a Miami team, that was going nowhere, want it more than a contending team coming off a huge win against KC? That can't happen.

The lapses happened in the majority of our games this year.  We usually rallied to win most of those.  This team was Jekyll and Hyde.  Too many penalties, too many times we looked unprepared or disinterested in the first half of games.  If people were happy having a good record every year and flaming out in the playoffs, no need for change.  It was exciting, but frustrating.  The team rarely looked like a well oiled machine this year.   Change was needed.  Let's just hope it works out.  

[colin]

we had the talent to lead the nfl in win %, points scored, and points allowed over 6 years.

 

but we never got the 1 seed.  to me that shows a level of slackness and a lack of focus.

 

until this year, when allen sacrificed his body and played near perfect vs the jags, we never won a road playoff game.

 

if we look at EPA, and we should, with the exception of 2022 since 2020 the bills offense always leads in per game epa, and the bills d is always the worst.  in our playoff exits our d is a total ish show, every single time.  only in 2022 in an exit was our offense not really good or great in terms of epa.

 

if we look at the defensive team, 2018 and 2019 were the only years when the d regularly put in very good defensive performances, low negative or positive epa performances.  in those years we had young tre and levi at corner, tremain at nickle, milano and edmunds at lb, the famous hyde and poyer duo at s, and most interestingly houghs and trent murph at de w lorax backing them up, and kyle williams/star at dt, and harrison phillips.  phillips had a 9.5 sack season, and we actually had really good run d in those years with big strong uglies up front, and not a deep d line rotation.

 

we let houghs and phillips go, who both went on to have some solid years after, we let edmunds walk and kept milano who was hurt every single year of his career, but who was a phenom at his best.  we never got stout again on the dline, and we went for lots and lots of bodies and a deep rotation.  i fault beane for not selecting better players in the draft, but at the very least on the defensive side of the ball mcd has his types and targets them, and he had seen enough of harrison phillips and edmunds and much preferred high picks in ed oliver and boogie basham and bernard and such.  he had no use for poona ford or tim settle, and aj klien out of retirement was much better in his mind than a rookie dorian williams.  wyatt teller was drafted as a g who got ditched and steph diggs was famously traded for, extended, and then booted for not being in line with mcdermott's process.

 

jordan phillips and post injury tre, poyer, and hyde all got brought back, and mcd didn't want to play any base d because it meant taking taron johnson off the pitch.

 

every coach has his guys, and players who are not and will never be his guys (recently talked about stories of jerry houghs going nuts after 13 seconds got him out of town quickly).  of course mcd's guys love him, he resigns them after they get run out of other teams or leave football all together and go right to the top of the depth chart.

 

we always hear about how the soft run d is by design, and how mcds system takes away the deep pass to make it hard for offenses to score without long drives, but every single playoff game teams that beat us (and some who don't like baltimore 2 times and indy with rivers) find it trivial to string togther explosive plays in rapid succession underneath the deep coverage of our safeties.  

 

mcd is comfortable having daboll walk on bad terms, promoting from within for the next oc, and firing him after his d and special teams lose badly, and then promoting another oc from the qb coach spot.  he had frazier for a while, but seemed fine letting him walk to take the job himself and then promoted a position coach.  he took play calling over w frazier and with babbich.  he certainly is willing to ditch special team coaches too.  so while the players are who his guys love his willingness to play them and have them start no matter what the d performance looks like, the coaches underneath him seem to get fired, leave angry, and most of all have him undermine them publicly and privately

 

 

[Sweats]

People don't like change, it's human nature.........change signifies the unknown and it freaks people out because they don't know what's going to happen.

 

On the flip side, people get complacent because they do know what's going to happen, almost to an absolutely dull standard day in and day out, however, complacency will keep you at the same subpar standard that you are used to and spinning your wheels with no traction of moving forward, but it's what you're used to.

 

I'm sure the players may be a bit skeptical at first but will embrace this change if it means that the team can progress.

 

 

[tigerthelion]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

🤷🏻‍♂️ you hate McDermott, so you obviously feel that we would’ve never won a Super Bowl with him.  

 

McDermott has had his fair share of L’s.  This seasons ending wasn’t on him imo.  If we had made one less mistake vs Denver, we may have won a Super Bowl this year. 
 

if we don’t win a super bowl with Josh Allen, we may have made a mistake, but we’ll never know for sure. 
 

I can’t pretend to know the future (with or without McD), but I’ll be really excited about our future if we hire Kubiak.  If we hire Brian Daboll…..I believe it will be a mistake.  Just have to wait, hope, pray 
 

 

Agree about Daboll. I don't trust Daboll to lead a team.  He is too much of a hothead. 

Edited January 20 by tigerthelion

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

Six straight seasons of basically the EXACT SAME result.

Start strong.  Slump mid-season (costing us the bye).  Finish strong and end with 11-13 wins. 

Wild card victory.  Loss in the divisional or championship round.

 

Something had to change.  It would be insanity to think otherwise.

 

It is well known that players liked Sean McDermott.  He was a player's coach, who created a family-atmosphere in the locker room.

Lots of veterans (Poyer, White, etc.) came back here because of how much they loved playing on this kind of team.

Coaches also liked being here, because McDermott liked promoting in-house, instead of exploring all options outside the organization.

 

But maybe that approach was ultimately part of the problem.  Maybe it led to the team being too comfortable and complacent.

Maybe Josh Allen doesn't need a buddy on the sidelines.  Maybe he needs someone that's going to challenge him to reach the next level.

 

The most successful franchise in NFL history had an unbearable jerk on the sideline, who everyone hated.  Just something to think about.

 

Wasn’t this something McD said in Hard Knocks this year? He said that he was noticing some guys weren’t hungry enough out there?

 

I think a new coach is going to wake everybody up, if that was really an issue.

[NewEra]

39 minutes ago, LarryMadman said:

Yup god forbid Josh didnt throw a perfect pass 50 yards down field, as he should have thrown 52 yards instead of 51 yards, SMDH! The blame and pettiness some people have when a human being is only perfect 90% of the time is mind boggeling!

lol.  He under three the ball as cooks was creating more separation.  I’m not saying it was an egregious error and that it shoukdve been an automatic that he hit him in stride.  The game was there to be won with a great throw.  Hit made some other perfect throws that game and he needed to be perfect on that throw too.  He wasn’t. 
 

 

41 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

And that's fair. Turnover issues were not good. 

 

However, pinning the loss solely on turnovers is rather short sighted. But combination of those plus poor coaching plus poor calls is really what combined for the loss. If any of those 3 are better, we win the game. Coaching was possibly the most avoidable IMO 

Omg….im not pinning the loss SOLELY on turnovers.  Every time I mention a factor in the loss, there are 5 people telling me that ithe loss is t just on this one thing.  I’m not saying that.  It’s not. The loss is on multiple factors. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

 

Nobody can conclude that McDermott would or wouldn’t have won a Super Bowl with McDermott.  You can pretend all you want. The only people that think they can conclude that are people like you.  People who think they are smarter than they are.

 

 

 

Pegula and Beane concluded it.  So I'm at least as smart as they are lol.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

22 seconds. No time outs. Already down by 7. You get the ball after the half. 

 

The decision to try and press there and it resulting in a fumble is 100% a cause of poor coaching. I don't know how any rational person can defend that. 

This is gonna take some courage cuz hindsight is super powerful to fight against and I’m anticipating some heat but I’ll lay out the case 😂. mile high starting on your 30 is probably a 25 yarder from having a fg attempt and 30ish yarder from probable make.  enough time for a spike if you hustle on an inbounds play which the coach would know a time estimate for and effective fg range coach would also know 

I love Josh to death and I’m sure he wins way more games than he loses going rogue but most teams are probably going for it in that situation and it’s an easy throwaway/go into halftime if it’s not there. Only thing that made it a press was Josh 

 

Obviously starting on the 20 is a sure knee 

Edited January 20 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Mr. WEO]

59 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Or maybe he trusted that the best player in the world wouldn’t have made one of the dumbest plays of his career in such a critical game. 
 

maybe that’s too much to ask.  I don’t think it is. 

 

It was a plan that had nearly no chance to succeed--no timeouts, 20 seconds from your own 30.  To what, change the deficit from 7 to 4 before the half--for a team known to score much higher in the second half (they outscored the Broncos 20-13 in the second half).  The chance of success was so low that it could not justify the risk of the worst outcome--turnover and Broncos score before the half.  Those 3 points were the difference in the game.

 

It was a monumentally dumb risk to take.  I beleive it's why McD was fired.  I said it that night--a fireable offense and I was right.

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

This is gonna take some courage cuz hindsight is super powerful to fight against and I’m anticipating some heat but I’ll lay out the case 😂. mile high starting on your 30 is probably a 25 yarder from having a fg attempt and 30ish yarder from probable make.  enough time for a spike if you hustle on an inbounds play which the coach would know a time estimate for and effective fg range coach would also know 

I love Josh to death and I’m sure he wins way more games than he loses going rogue but most teams are probably going for it in that situation and it’s an easy throwaway/go into halftime if it’s not there. Only thing that made it a press was Josh 

 

Obviously starting on the 20 is a sure knee 

I still don't know wtf he was trying to do there.

[TFBillsfan]

At the end of the day, it comes down to playoff defense that cost McDermott. His scheme was the issue more so than the players.  It’s been a reoccurring trend throughout his tenure. For all the mistakes Josh made in the Denver game, he got them the lead. Then we proceed to play soft zone and let Denver march down the field. They had Denver in 3rd and 11 and McDermott goes soft zone, zero pressure and they give up an easy 20 yard completion. That is and has been his Achilles heel that goes ALL the way back to losing to Houston in Josh’s first playoff appearance. They had Houston in 4th and long, make a stop and game over. Instead, McDermott has Edmunds so far down field that Houston throws a short pass, Edmunds is too deep and an easy conversion. Bills go on to lose! Same with 13 seconds! I think Pegula and Beane watched the last Denver drive in regulation and thought, nothings changed so why would we believe the next year would be any different if McDermott was back.

 

I believe McDermott’s biggest flaw was not recognizing he needed to be a head coach and bringing in an external DC that runs their own D. Your D can’t continue to get torch in the playoffs every year. 

 

At the end of the day, I tip my hat for what he accomplished as it was all there for him to accomplish so much more and he just couldn’t. Change was needed and if Beane doesn’t deliver, he’ll get fired in the new future as well.