Why are so many fired retread head coaches the belles of the off season coaching ball this year?

[mannc]

There are nine vacancies and head coaches have to come from somewhere. And there is proof of concept with retreads—Andy Reid, Bill Belichick, Marv Levy, Vrabel, etc.  Theoretically, you have a higher floor with a guy who has been a HC before.  My sense is that former HC hires have a higher success rate than coordinators who have no prior HC experience, but I could well be wrong.  
 

What is perplexing is guys who had no or very limited success the first time getting second and sometimes third chances…

[Don Otreply]

It boils down to two things, experience and the fear of truly fresh talent, so retreads are considered the safe/smart choice, 

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

I remember a fired retread coach named Marv Levy … perhaps you remember him too

He’s literally 100 years old. He had a good bit of success on a team full of hall of famers. I love Marv. I’m sure Eagles fans love Nick Sirriani too.

[GunnerBill]

I'd hire John Harbaugh yesterday if I was an owner with a vacancy. Superbowl winning Head Coach, exceptional leader. Shown ability twice to put the structure in place to develop a young Quarterback - with two totally different guys - managed the locker room transition away from a very strong leadership group of Lewis, Reed, Suggs to a next generation. And won his Superbowl with far from the most talented team in that game or in that playoff bracket frankly. And had sustained success in a tough division.

 

Mike Tomlin I would probably prefer took a year away, because he looks tired but if I had a vacancy next year? First name on my list. 

 

A lot of those other guys.... yea I'd be more wary. I think Saleh deserves and will get a 2nd chance at some point but I'm not sure it should or will be after just one year out. Stefanski I'm less high on than many. His game management and leadership was a mess and had he not fallen out with Baker and run him out of town his era in Cleveland looks very different. That was on him. And I'd never hire Kliff Kingsbury again as a Head Coach. Doesn't have the temprament for it. Mike McDaniel I would say the same to be honest, isn't Head Coach material.... but he will get another shot at some point if he does well as an OC (which I expect he will). 

[Mark Vader]

1 hour ago, Walking Tall said:

Most every head coach in the NFL eventually gets fired. Do they all suck because of that?

 

There are only so many Don Shula’s that go out on their own.

 No, they don't all suck. Some retreads are better than others. Going after John Harbaugh makes more sense than going after Mike McCarthy.

[NoSaint]

Why are guys getting hyped? 
 

because the nfl and surrounding media ecosystem works better with “look at the exciting news” instead of “eek there’s 9 openings and like 4 exciting coaches and 5 of  your fan bases should take the next 3 years off”

Edited January 16 by NoSaint

[billsfan89]

Retread coaches are always inflated. I understand why Tomlin and Harbaugh are coveted they have a proven track record of sustained success. As for the rest Stefanski is the only one I think should get interest as I think there's a legit case that he is a good coach (who had success in a place where success goes to die) he just was in a bad situation. As for the rest no idea why Mike McCarthy, Mike McDaniels, Robert Saleh, Kingsbury, and these other B/C list retreads are being considered for jobs. If I am not getting Harbaugh or Tomlin (and maybe Stefanski) I am going with a up and coming coordinator as a HC. 

 

I think there's retreads that can be successful but if you look at the ones on the market after the top 2-3 they were guys that were either just fired or fired like 1-2 seasons ago. I would understand teams looking back into McDaniels if he went to a team as an OC and was lighting it up for 3 years or if Saleh was having a top 5 defense 3 years in a row in San Francisco teams checking back in on him. But 1 or 0 years after getting fired after limited to no success is nuts to me. 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

18 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He’s literally 100 years old. He had a good bit of success on a team full of hall of famers. I love Marv. I’m sure Eagles fans love Nick Sirriani too.

I was referring to his first failure as HC of the Chiefs … and yet the Bills hired this losing retread 

[MrEpsYtown]

People have been hiring the red-hot young offensive mind trying to replicate the Sean McVay hire...this is just regression to the mean. Now that all those guys are getting fired, teams are valuing previous head coaching experience over the hotshot. That's why we are seeing retreads. 

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

I was referring to his first failure as HC of the Chiefs … and yet the Bills hired this losing retread 

I know. Maybe Sirianni was a bad example because this is his first job. Marv succeeded though because his team’s were loaded (same with Sirriani). Those Bills teams were some of the most talented teams in the history of the league. He didn’t succeed because he was experienced. Marv was a great motivator. Marv was a lousy X & O guy. While there may not be a lot of people that would have gotten the Bills to 4 straight there are lots of people that would have won 1+ Super Bowl with those teams. 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I know. Maybe Sirianni was a bad example because this is his first job. Marv succeeded though because his team’s were loaded (same with Sirriani). Those Bills teams were some of the most talented teams in the history of the league. He didn’t succeed because he was experienced. Marv was a great motivator. Marv was a lousy X & O guy. While there may not be a lot of people that would have gotten the Bills to 4 straight there are lots of people that would have won 1+ Super Bowl with those teams. 

I’m in agreement with you … I simply felt the OP’s attack on previously fired coaches was specious at best and Marv was my first example. One could also point to the meathead in New England as an example. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

2 hours ago, Mister Defense said:

I don't get the unique focus, fascination and hyberbolic hype this year by both the NFL owners and the national media on the previously (and often recently) fired head coaches as potential head coaches, and saviors, of NFL teams:

 

King Harbaugh, whose extremely talented teams dramatically underperformed for years-- and blew more late leads in the last 3 seasons than any team in the league.

 

Mike McCarthy, whose teams in Dallas could not win a big game if their lives depended on it, underperforming in those games ALL of the time

 

MikeTomlin, who those in the know say would be 2nd only to Harbaugh if he were to decide to coach again.  A man whose teams do not even compete in the playoffs anymore, got blown out as if they were in a different league---no chance. (Yes, not fired technically, but I think that was just to allow him to save face. That fan base would have been incensed if he was back next year.)

 

Robert Salah, the head coach of the lost and confused hapless Jets, who looked as lost and confused as his team, and so fired in the middle of last season

 

Kevin Stefanski, who led one of the worst teams in the NFL this year and previously

 

Kliff Kingsbury!,

 

(And Mike McDaniel, a good offensive coordinator, who at least has some upside as a head coach still—as his team actually played hard for him late in the season.  I think he becomes a great OC, does that for a year or two, and then becomes a solid head coach. So, I don’t want to group him with the others here.)

 

Maybe I am wrong but I don’t believe in past years that fired NFL coaches with clearly problematic later resumes, coaches of teams that have underperformed, have been painted in such glowing terms and were leading the way for NFL teams in need of a head coach.  Rather, it seems in the past top coordinators and college coaches were the focus, and rightfully so.

 

Look at some of this year’s playoff and up and coming teams: Jacksonville, Houston. Chicago, Seattle, all considered some of the most dynamic, well coached teams in the league now.  (And an on the rise team like New Orleans as well.) No retread, fired head coaches to be  found there,and all former NFL coordinators I think.  But yes, Vrabel, is one fired ex head coach who did well.

 

How discouraging it would have been if the Bills had lost this past week, and McDermott was fired, only to see the Bills going backwards, bringing in a Tomlin! Harbaugh, Salah—McCarthy!! That would have been devastating.

 

(And furthermore, when I read and watch NFL analysis this week the focus should clearly be almost exclusively on the Bills, with a bit thrown in on the other playoff teams. Instead, each day another one of these teams and the fired, re-tread coaches are their focus, day after day. Taking all of the Bills' rightfully earned air time.)

 

 

 

One thing that all of the coaches you mentioned (except Saleh) is that they are unemployed and readily available to be interviewed. You could throw some other names on there as well like McDaniel and Flores who have both had a lot of interviews and are retreads. But again...readily available. And in the cases of Flores, Saleh and even strangely McDaniel, they get teams Rooney compliant. 

 

After this weekend I expect things to heat up. There are coordinators on 4 more teams that will be available. Bills/Broncos will be one people pay attention to as either Vance Joseph or Joe Brady become readily available to interview. Seahawks and 49ers as well as the Rams all have guys that should gain a lot of traction once their team is out as well 

[Alphadawg7]

12 hours ago, Mister Defense said:

I don't get the unique focus, fascination and hyberbolic hype this year by both the NFL owners and the national media on the previously (and often recently) fired head coaches as potential head coaches, and saviors, of NFL teams:

 

King Harbaugh, whose extremely talented teams dramatically underperformed for years-- and blew more late leads in the last 3 seasons than any team in the league.

 

Mike McCarthy, whose teams in Dallas could not win a big game if their lives depended on it, underperforming in those games ALL of the time

 

MikeTomlin, who those in the know say would be 2nd only to Harbaugh if he were to decide to coach again.  A man whose teams do not even compete in the playoffs anymore, got blown out as if they were in a different league---no chance. (Yes, not fired technically, but I think that was just to allow him to save face. That fan base would have been incensed if he was back next year.)

 

Robert Salah, the head coach of the lost and confused hapless Jets, who looked as lost and confused as his team, and so fired in the middle of last season

 

Kevin Stefanski, who led one of the worst teams in the NFL this year and previously

 

Kliff Kingsbury!,

 

(And Mike McDaniel, a good offensive coordinator, who at least has some upside as a head coach still—as his team actually played hard for him late in the season.  I think he becomes a great OC, does that for a year or two, and then becomes a solid head coach. So, I don’t want to group him with the others here.)

 

Maybe I am wrong but I don’t believe in past years that fired NFL coaches with clearly problematic later resumes, coaches of teams that have underperformed, have been painted in such glowing terms and were leading the way for NFL teams in need of a head coach.  Rather, it seems in the past top coordinators and college coaches were the focus, and rightfully so.

 

Look at some of this year’s playoff and up and coming teams: Jacksonville, Houston. Chicago, Seattle, all considered some of the most dynamic, well coached teams in the league now.  (And an on the rise team like New Orleans as well.) No retread, fired head coaches to be  found there,and all former NFL coordinators I think.  But yes, Vrabel, is one fired ex head coach who did well.

 

How discouraging it would have been if the Bills had lost this past week, and McDermott was fired, only to see the Bills going backwards, bringing in a Tomlin! Harbaugh, Salah—McCarthy!! That would have been devastating.

 

(And furthermore, when I read and watch NFL analysis this week the focus should clearly be almost exclusively on the Bills, with a bit thrown in on the other playoff teams. Instead, each day another one of these teams and the fired, re-tread coaches are their focus, day after day. Taking all of the Bills' rightfully earned air time.)

 

 

 

The NFL is loaded with coaches who went on to do more at next stops.  Several of the coaches you listed have SB trophies, many have a long winning history, others have won COY or showed potential but had roster issues.

 

A coach can only coach the players the FO puts on the field.  Just because Cleveland got the QB wrong doesn’t mean Stefanski can’t coach.  Mike McDaniel turned a bad leader sissy QB with fragile head and noodle arm into a potential MVP candidate.

 

And more unknown coaches flame out than succeed.  So when looking to do something different it’s no shock that guys who have won, guys who have had success with less, guys who showed innovation at times, etc will get a lot of attention.  
 

I would much rather hire Harbaugh than gamble the development of dart on someone who’s never been a HC before for example.  
 

Im not saying everyone of those guys you listed is going to go on to be a great HC in their next stops, but this is what teams see and weigh in this regard.  Not all feel that hat way, some feel like you do, go find someone new that has a high ceiling even though being unproven they have a lower floor.  Others want more certainty in their next hire where maybe the ceiling doesn’t feel as high, but the floor is much higher to help reset the franchise.

Edited January 17 by Alphadawg7

[MJS]

Harbaugh is a good coach. Tomlin is a good coach. They should be at the top of the list as candidates. They will turn around struggling teams and get them into playoff competition, and that is big for most of these teams. The others you mentioned don't move the needle for me, personally.

 

Saleh is really getting looks? I think that would be a mistake. He is a good coordinator, but doesn't have the leadership or mentality needed for a head coaching job. But I disagree with you on McDaniel. I think he would be a mistake as well. Heck, I wouldn't even want him as a coordinator because he is so weird, but he'd be a good coordinator on a lot of teams, I suppose.

[mjt328]

I've got a couple theories for this:

 

1.  Lack of impressive young coordinators coming up.

 

2.  Two longtime coaches with success (Harbaugh and Tomlin) getting surprisingly fired.

 

3.  The success of Mike Vrabel is an example that a retread can work.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

The guys who won Super Bowls… I think that is why they are high on lists.

 

Thing is, only one of them appears to have been actually hired, leading me to believe it is possible the younger coordinators on the teams still in playoff contention may be higher on searching teams’ candidate lists. 

[Mister Defense]

3 hours ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

I remember a fired retread coach named Marv Levy … perhaps you remember him too

 

Well, yeah, of course. I am not saying that they are all not viable, and all not going to be successful, but this year they are clearly the MAIN focus of the media, and apparently with owners.  Seems like a bad idea to make them the main focus of so many.

 

And I assume some will become very successful as well.

 

But, again, look at the playoff winners this year so far, and the teams playing in the divisional round.  4 of the 6 coaches were coordinators when hired as head coaches. And most of the coaches in this year's playoffs overall were also coordinators before this job, not head coach.

 

3 hours ago, uticaclub said:

Many “retread” coaches have seen success with their 2 jobs. Did you ever get fired and were better at your next position?

 

But it makes no sense that these coaches are the focus--and many being placed on such high pedestals.

 

We will see how it all turns out, but think a bunch of them should just hang it up now---and that they will not be successful.

 

[Buffalo Junction]

6 hours ago, Virgil said:

If you are looking at this from the perspective of a Bills fan, I would agree with you.  But you have to factor in that many teams don't even know how to win and have zero culture.  To them, just making the playoffs would be a HUGE improvement.  If we were still in the drought years, I would be banging the drum to bring in Harbaugh.  

 

Harbaugh - Will create a culture and get you to the playoffs.  Could be a Reid situation where he needs a reset

 

McCarthy - Honestly, no idea.  I've never understood the hype.  But he should be able to get you a functional team that gets to the playoffs

 

Tomlin - Same as Harbaugh, but I don't see him coaching this year

 

Salah - Great coordinator who deserves a second chance.  Plus, has anyone been able to make the Jets look good in the last two decades?  I'd give him a pass for that stint, in which I'm sure he learned from.

 

Stefanski - The fact that he won coach of the year TWICE with the Browns is an amazing accomplishment.  Similar to Salah, he gets a bit of a pass because he worked for a horribly dysfunctional organization.  

 

Kingsbury - Showed sparks of potential greatness when he coached and can bring an offense to live.  If I'm the Titans, he's number one on my list and maybe the best they'll be able to get

 

McDaniels - If he gets a HC job, it'll mainly be because there are so many openings.  He had a great start in Miami and seemed to be turning it around this past season.  He did have good support from ownership, but I think the Tua and Hill drama eventually hurt him.  The cold weather stuff was bizarre.  Biggest issue with him is his personality in the media.  It's fun while you're winning, but gets old fast when you lose.  

 

I think the league knows more than the media with these guys; ie, front offices know who picked the QBs in Cleveland, made the roster choices in Pittsburgh, how much Jones’ meddling in Dallas influenced McCarthy, etc. That’s going to play a large part in how this plays out. 
 

Agree that Mike McD gets left out unless the coaching talent runs out. He just doesn’t project “CEO” and the results in Miami point to that. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

9 hours ago, Watkins101 said:

I think there are some fair criticisms here for some of these coaches, but I really have to disagree on Tomlin. The Steelers roster has been below average year over year, and yes they do get blown out in the playoffs just about every year, but I think without Tomlin they are more of a 6/7 win team.

 

😅

[SoTier]

9 hours ago, DrBob806 said:

This thread is real reactionary.

 

We lucked out into getting Josh. Without him, the Bills are lost just like the teams you ( & just about everybody else) rips on. 

 

I disagree.  McDermott got the Bills to the playoffs with Tyrod Taylor and much less talent than they have on the current roster.

 

Furthermore, you are assuming that Allen is the only reason the Bills are a playoff team, which is total bull manure.  The Bills have a better roster than many Bills fans are willing to admit.

 

The Bills were in the market for a QB in 2018.   If they didn't take Allen because the Jests took him or Denver took him, they might have taken Darnold or Jackson.  Maybe in a better organization, even Josh Rosen might have become a decent starter.  Would Allen have become Allen if the Jests had drafted him?   My guess is that he would not.

 

Nobody knows what would have been, but McDermott has been a much better HC than you think.

Edited January 17 by SoTier