Time out on extra point

[Ya Digg?]

Does anyone know why the Bills called a timeout on the extra point after Benford’s pick 6? Was it just a matter of they didn’t get the field goal unit out in the field in time? Trying to clear a spot for Prater? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a team need to take a time out on an extra point 

[Tenhigh]

3 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

Does anyone know why the Bills called a timeout on the extra point after Benford’s pick 6? Was it just a matter of they didn’t get the field goal unit out in the field in time? Trying to clear a spot for Prater? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a team need to take a time out on an extra point 

We have done it on both sides of the ball this year. 

[Kelly to Allen]

8 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

Does anyone know why the Bills called a timeout on the extra point after Benford’s pick 6? Was it just a matter of they didn’t get the field goal unit out in the field in time? Trying to clear a spot for Prater? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a team need to take a time out on an extra point 

 

The bills were going to get a delay penalty from celebrating and McDermott used it to save the 5 yds

 

It's debatable if the timeout was more valuable. The extra point makes Cincy have to go for 2 to get within 3....

 

Regardless, setting aside the xp vs the TO, the responsibility still falls on McDermott to not get to that point 

 

 

After Cincinnati scored late I have no idea why they didn't go onside kick. Even if you hold buffalo to a fg, it's still only an 8 point game. There was no real downside for going onside, especially with your season on the line 

Edited 5 hours ago by Kelly to Allen

[boco357]

My thought was McDermott was on camera fumbling with headset.  I think he was trying to see if should go for 2.  Which didnt make sense with xp going up 4.

[Rochesterfan]

21 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

The bills were going to get a delay penalty from celebrating and McDermott used it to save the 5 yds

 

It's debatable if the timeout was more valuable. The extra point makes Cincy have to go for 2 to get within 3....

 

Regardless, setting aside the xp vs the TO, the responsibility still falls on McDermott to not get to that point 

 

 

After Cincinnati scored late I have no idea why they didn't go onside kick. Even if you hold buffalo to a fg, it's still only an 8 point game. There was no real downside for going onside, especially with your season on the line 

 

I get why you don’t onside kick - it is about yardage - it was never about points as it was very doubtful the Bills attempt a long FG in those conditions.

 

The onside kick with a 3% recovery gives the Bills the ball on your side of the 50.  The kickoff put the ball on the Bills 25.

 

Either way you still need the stop - 1 first down finishes the game.  If you onside kick and get the stop - the Bills are punting from midfield to pin you deep with little chance for return - so 30 seconds to go 90+ yards.  Plus if it gets to 4th and 1 or 2 the Bills are more likely to go for it to seal the game - just like at the end of the first half.

 

By kicking off - you have the Bills punting from deeper in their own end and potentially open up a return as the punter has to try and kick it for distance not height.  The Bills are also more likely to punt on 4th and short rather than go for it.  
 

So if you assume a 3% recovery chance, but then either 90 yards with 30 seconds and no timeouts or a chance at getting the ball at the 30 or 40 with 30 seconds left- the yardage is more important to me.  It also changes the Bills approach to getting the 1st down.

 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by Rochesterfan

[SectionC3]

11 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

I get why you don’t onside kick - it is about yardage - it was never about points as it was very doubtful the Bills attempt a long FG in those conditions.

 

The onside kick with a 3% recovery gives the Bills the ball on your side of the 50.  The kickoff put the ball on the Bills 25.

 

Either way you still need the stop - 1 first down finishes the game.  If you onside kick and get the stop - the Bills are punting from midfield to pin you deep with little chance for return - so 30 seconds to go 90+ yards.  Plus if it gets to 4th and 1 or 2 the Bills are more likely to go for it to seal the game - just like at the end of the first half.

 

By kicking off - you have the Bills punting from deeper in their own end and potentially open up a return as the punter has to try and kick it for distance not height.  The Bills are also more likely to punt on 4th and short rather than go for it.  
 

So if you assume a 3% recovery chance, but then either 90 yards with 30 seconds and no timeouts or a chance at getting the ball at the 30 or 40 with 30 seconds left- the yardage is more important to me.  It also changes the Bills approach to getting the 1st down.

 

 

It worked out for Taylor on that one.  Or it least it should have, but for a Superman scramble by Allen.  But I'm with the other guy.  They had to go three and out, anyways.  There's snow all over the place, the balls have been freezing for three hours, and the game was already crazy.  I would have taken the shot at the onsides and sacrificed the 30 +/- yards if I didn't get it knowing that I was in three and out territory anyways.  

[Rochesterfan]

17 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

It worked out for Taylor on that one.  Or it least it should have, but for a Superman scramble by Allen.  But I'm with the other guy.  They had to go three and out, anyways.  There's snow all over the place, the balls have been freezing for three hours, and the game was already crazy.  I would have taken the shot at the onsides and sacrificed the 30 +/- yards if I didn't get it knowing that I was in three and out territory anyways.  

 

I hear you - I just believe the onside kick puts you in having to stop the Bills on 4 plays rather than 3.  
 

McDermott had already showed you he was willing to go for it on your side of the 50 multiple times.  I don’t think McD pulls a Reid at his 30 and goes for it.  
 

So for the very slim chance you recover - your defense the weak link - would have had to come up with 4 big stop against the run as I think they go into heavy run mode.

 

To me if it had been under 2 minutes or you had 0 timeouts - onside kick 100%, but you had 2 stops of the clock out of 3 potential plays - I want yardage to give me at minimum a Hail Mary to the endzone and potentially multiple shots.

 

I get it - it’s slippery and the ball is hard, but that is also true on the punt return - so potential of a short punt or if the Bengals player catches it on the run of a nice return versus a high punt that the Bills can try to angle out of bounds or let bounce around.

 

 

[SectionC3]

9 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

I hear you - I just believe the onside kick puts you in having to stop the Bills on 4 plays rather than 3.  
 

McDermott had already showed you he was willing to go for it on your side of the 50 multiple times.  I don’t think McD pulls a Reid at his 30 and goes for it.  
 

So for the very slim chance you recover - your defense the weak link - would have had to come up with 4 big stop against the run as I think they go into heavy run mode.

 

To me if it had been under 2 minutes or you had 0 timeouts - onside kick 100%, but you had 2 stops of the clock out of 3 potential plays - I want yardage to give me at minimum a Hail Mary to the endzone and potentially multiple shots.

 

I get it - it’s slippery and the ball is hard, but that is also true on the punt return - so potential of a short punt or if the Bengals player catches it on the run of a nice return versus a high punt that the Bills can try to angle out of bounds or let bounce around.

 

 

Totally reasonable. All of it.  My view was based on sitting (standing) there for three hours and being wet (snow melts on you after awhile) and a little cold.  But your “math” is just as fair on this one.  

[Rochesterfan]

1 minute ago, SectionC3 said:

Totally reasonable. All of it.  My view was based on sitting (standing) there for three hours and being wet (snow melts on you after awhile) and a little cold.  But your “math” is just as fair on this one.  

 

I totally get it also and if he had tried the onside kick that would be fine also.  I just don’t see why fans think it was the only choice and Taylor messed up.

 

The old school thinking would always be to onside because no one went for it on forth down if they were ahead and old style onside kicks had a higher recovery percentage.

 

Modern thinking looks at teams and where the line of demarcation is for going versus punting and the rules have neutered the on side kicks - which to me is fine - you should not have a good chance to get the ball back just because you are losing.  
 

The killer is the Bengals played it perfectly on the first 2 and then came after Josh with man behind - giving him a lane toward the 1st down.  

[SectionC3]

8 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

I totally get it also and if he had tried the onside kick that would be fine also.  I just don’t see why fans think it was the only choice and Taylor messed up.

 

The old school thinking would always be to onside because no one went for it on forth down if they were ahead and old style onside kicks had a higher recovery percentage.

 

Modern thinking looks at teams and where the line of demarcation is for going versus punting and the rules have neutered the on side kicks - which to me is fine - you should not have a good chance to get the ball back just because you are losing.  
 

The killer is the Bengals played it perfectly on the first 2 and then came after Josh with man behind - giving him a lane toward the 1st down.  

I was watching the ball, but I'll take your word for it on coverage.  You'd think the 40 yard touchdown and third and 15 would have put them in zone.  Completely agree.  

[gonzo1105]

My guess is it was a multitude of things. Bills players obviously in that scenario we’re celebrating a huge play that just occurred and it was likely that the whole team was celebrating in some fashion.

 

The play was also a sudden change of possession, FG units are made up of all 3 sides of the ball. It was unlikely all 11 guys were corralled in time after the celebrating and were all over the sideline to be found. 
 

The FG at the time was crucial in the game. The Bills were up 3 points before the XP. Don’t want to take the chance of missing because we rushed the FG team in bad weather vs taking your time and making it a touchdown game 

[MasterStrategist]

Simple answer -- we were about to get a delay of game penalty, b/c players celebrating a MASSIVE play.  McD was smart to burn the timeout, with how shaky Prater has been on PATs.  We needed that 1 point to force Cincy to go for 2.  It was the correct decision.

[Rubes]

3 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

I totally get it also and if he had tried the onside kick that would be fine also.  I just don’t see why fans think it was the only choice and Taylor messed up.

 

 

I wouldn't say it was the only choice, but I was surprised myself. Mostly for two reasons: the playing conditions would seem to give you a (slightly) greater chance of recovering the onsides kick, and the fact that the Bills hadn't punted the whole game. I would have thought Taylor would want the ball more than hoping his defense could stop the Bills offense. But I can see it both ways.

 

Now back to the OP topic...

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

My guess is it was a multitude of things. Bills players obviously in that scenario we’re celebrating a huge play that just occurred and it was likely that the whole team was celebrating in some fashion.

 

The play was also a sudden change of possession, FG units are made up of all 3 sides of the ball. It was unlikely all 11 guys were corralled in time after the celebrating and were all over the sideline to be found. 
 

The FG at the time was crucial in the game. The Bills were up 3 points before the XP. Don’t want to take the chance of missing because we rushed the FG team in bad weather vs taking your time and making it a touchdown game 

 

I mean the stadium itself was absolutely bonkers at that moment.  You have the sideline and stands going berserk.  Poor conditions on a side of the field that has accumulated some snow, so you need to brush off the ground.  It was too important to go up 4 there to take a penalty and potentially miss the kick.  

[wolfpack78]

Was at the game... can confirm it was to avoid a delay of game.  Team was busy celebrating and not getting lined up.  He called it with about four or less seconds on the play clock.  I think he was also trying to argue that they set the play clock too soon, but the refs didn't budge and he was forced to take it.