This roster is a disaster however…..

[Saint Doug]

1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

You could be Cincinnati- a high high high ceiling team that is going to miss the playoffs again.

I don’t think this would be from lack of talent. They lost their QB for a significant amount of time. The Bills would be similarly worse off if we lost Josh for that amount of time. 

[Joe Ferguson]

Not one 1st round WR drafted since Josh Allen's rookie year is mind boggling!

[Billsatlastin2018]

52 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

And yet which team won? The one with the better defense? Hmmmm guess trying to outscore opposition not always best strategy. Yet I know we won cuz of just Josh.

The Bills Sieve D… giving up 32/ are 3-0.

The entire NFL Sieve Ds, also giving up 32/ are 6-61-2!
 

You’d have to be entirely deluded to not comprehend that the diff in result is ALL 17!

[GoBills808]

28 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson said:

Not one 1st round WR drafted since Josh Allen's rookie year is mind boggling!

yup

equally mind boggling is no 1st rd OL

[Rochesterfan]

25 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

I don’t think this would be from lack of talent. They lost their QB for a significant amount of time. The Bills would be similarly worse off if we lost Josh for that amount of time. 

Except they missed last year with Burrow 100% healthy and the year before with that talent.

 

They have had all this talent and have not won double digits or made the playoffs since 2022.

 

Some is injury, but a lot is talent does not trump teamwork over the long term.

 

They would be a better team allowing some talent to go and building more mid tier players to compete.

 

 

[Buffalo716]

29 minutes ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

The Bills Sieve D… giving up 32/ are 3-0.

The entire NFL Sieve Ds, also giving up 32/ are 6-61-2!
 

You’d have to be entirely deluded to not comprehend that the diff in result is ALL 17!

 

Most the league would still kill for our offensive line our running back room and our tight end room 

 

It's not built like a modern 2025 roster it is literally scoring a lot of points for years because it executes with its personnel 

 

Josh Allen can't take a bottom offensive line with no running backs and do what he's doing.. it works because he has a great offensive line which gets pushing the run game and three good tight ends

[GoBills808]

33 minutes ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

The Bills Sieve D… giving up 32/ are 3-0.

The entire NFL Sieve Ds, also giving up 32/ are 6-61-2!
 

You’d have to be entirely deluded to not comprehend that the diff in result is ALL 17!

how many more TD records have to fall before people wake up to this very simple fact

[Shaw66]

35 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson said:

Not one 1st round WR drafted since Josh Allen's rookie year is mind boggling!

The Bills traded the rights to Justin Jefferson for Diggs, so that's one. 

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

yup

equally mind boggling is no 1st rd OL

And equally impressive that we still have a very good OL.  2 2nd rd picks, a 3rd rd, a higher mid tier FA to go with one of the best value OGs in Edwards.  Beane did a good job constructing it

[folz]

3 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

it's not over-used at all. its been true for years, just that the national guys only picked up on it last season

 

other teams have more offensively around their QB. better scheme, better options, and as a result less responsibility on the QB for staying on schedule down after down. 

 

Cook has had seven 100+ yard rushing games (he had a game of 200+ yards even). He is the second leading rusher in the league (only 48 yards behind first place Jonathan Taylor). He is 6th in receiving yards for a RB. He is 4th in the league in yards from scrimmage. Davis and Johnson are both very productive as backups. I'd venture to say we have one of the better RB rooms in the league. Does that not count as help?

 

Kincaid is pretty good when healthy. He's had a couple of hundred-yard games. Knox just had a 93-yard day. Hawes is turning into a pretty good all-around TE. Our TE room is very good, top 10 at least. Is that not help?

 

Does a very good offensive line not count as help? Cincinnati is a team that many people bring up in the WR conversation. Cincy has had Burrow/Chase/Higgins since 2021 (5 years). Yes, they made two AFC championship games and 1 SB (compared to Buffalo, 1 AFC champ game, 0 SBs over that span---though we also made the Championship game the year before in 2020 to make it 2 for Buffalo, and I really think we make the SB last year if not for the refs, just mo). But the Bills will have made the playoffs all 5 years. The Bengals will have missed the playoffs 3 of the last 5 years. You could say, yeah but that's because Burrow has been hurt so much, and I would respond, yeah well how much does his offensive line have to do with that? And you could say, I don't care about division crowns and playoff appearances, only SBs matter and they at least made one. But they didn't win it. If we went to and lost a SB, you guys would be on McD harder than ever. You wouldn't say, well at least we made a SB. And over that span, Cincy's record is 44-36 (.550%) and Buffalo's record is 57-28 (.671%). Just sayin'.

 

And I know our defense isn't anything to write home about (injuries are a big part of that too), but would you say interceptions on back-to-back plays isn't help for your QB? No matter Josh's heroics, we may lose that game without those picks (and score). How about the Bosa/Benford strip-sack-score last week? No help?

 

As to schemes, I haven't been thrilled with Brady at times either. The WR screens were too overused, amongst other things. But to just say all of these other teams have better schemes, I mean how much have you really researched that? How many teams do you watch every single snap like you do the Bills to even know? You may not like that we have basically become a run first, short-passing game team, but it doesn't mean that it can't or won't be successful. We are currently second in the league in offensive yards and 5th in the league in total points (just 3 points behind the 4th-place Rams and their two stud receivers, and 5 points behind 3rd-place Dallas and their two stud receivers). I have a hard time thinking we do that with a trash team around Josh. 

 

Just because we don't have great receivers does not mean that our entire roster is terrible. And yes, it is a fallacy that Josh does not have help/has to do it on his own. I think you could fairly say that specifically in regards to the wide receiver room (Josh may have less help at WR than some other QBs), but to pretend like Josh is doing it all on his own with no help, the rest of our team are all just JAGs and scrubs, you might as well play Josh 1 on 11 because the other guys don't help at all (ok that's a bit of an exaggeration there), just isn't true.

 

 

1 hour ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

To help anyone focus on this correct statement, just go back and watch Higgins & Gesicki making these all world leaping catches yesterday! And Burrow still has Chase to boot.

 

Now, look at the reverse. Look at the 7 second TD dart to Shakir or that other unreal play by 17. Was it 10 seconds… 15 seconds? 
 

Where the hell is ONE open WR?

 

It is cringeworthy embarrassing what Beanbrain has FUBARed this season!

 

Hmmm...Gabe got himself in position on the sideline during scramble drill for a nice grab; Keon got leverage on the slant near the end zone. But, because Cincy is so bad at covering TEs (all season), this was a TE/RB focused pass game. The TEs and RBs had 18 targets compared to 9 targets for the WRs. Not because the WRs weren't open, but because the Bills schemed the game for the TEs due to opponent.

 

And I do remember Hawes being schemed for a wide open TD. Seemed like Knox was running free all game, was wide open on the two-point conversion as well. Kincaid was looking pretty open on his catches too.

 

WR isn't the only position in football my friends. [Not that I wouldn't welcome an upgrade.]

 

Edited 6 hours ago by folz

[GoBills808]

Just now, NewEra said:

And equally impressive that we still have a very good OL.  2 2nd rd picks, a 3rd rd, a higher mid tier FA to go with one of the best value OGs in Edwards.  Beane did a good job constructing it

i agree

 

and i dont think OP is being fair to the team's overall talent

 

i would just like to see the priorities adjusted wrt where we allocate resources

[BillMafia716ix]

This is probably the worst Bills team roster wise of the McDermott-Josh era and yet there still 9-4. That’s why I don’t buy the BS narrative that the Bills window is closing. 

[Augie]

I must say I admire the provocative title. 

[Rockinon]

I think with the number of games being played today, there should be 60 players on the active roster. NFL rules suck.

[The Jokeman]

57 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson said:

Not one 1st round WR drafted since Josh Allen's rookie year is mind boggling!

And Marquise Brown, Rashad Bateman and Zay Flowers got Lamar Jackson and the Ravens to how many Super Bowls? 

8 minutes ago, Rockinon said:

I think with the number of games being played today, there should be 60 players on the active roster. NFL rules suck.

Just activate the whole damn 53 on game day tbh.

[OldNMBillsFan]

12 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

The WR position is a disaster.  Outside of that its a good oft injured roster.  Luckily we have 17.

Yet the teams receiving stats sit in or near the top 5 of almost every receiving category.

Tied for 4th with 11.7 YDS per reception.

3rd with 8.2 YDS per passing attempt.

2nd with a 69.8 completion percentage.

Tied for 4th in 1st down percentage per reception with a 56.7%

Tied for 1st in the league with receptions of 20+ yards with 50. (Not bad for so many haters saying they can't stretch the field.)

3rd with receptions of 40 yards or more with 9. (Again, not bad for so many haters saying they can't stretch the field.)

Tied for 7th in TD receptions with 22.

Granted these are team stats the include the WR's, TE's, and RB's. But the point I am trying to make is that as a group, i don't think it is the disaster you claim. 

Yes #17 does have a hand in this obviously, but he can't throw it to himself. Well, technically he did once. 

 

Go Bills!!! And stop hating on our receivers!!!!

[GoBills808]

39 minutes ago, OldNMBillsFan said:

Yet the teams receiving stats sit in or near the top 5 of almost every receiving category.

Tied for 4th with 11.7 YDS per reception.

3rd with 8.2 YDS per passing attempt.

2nd with a 69.8 completion percentage.

Tied for 4th in 1st down percentage per reception with a 56.7%

Tied for 1st in the league with receptions of 20+ yards with 50. (Not bad for so many haters saying they can't stretch the field.)

3rd with receptions of 40 yards or more with 9. (Again, not bad for so many haters saying they can't stretch the field.)

Tied for 7th in TD receptions with 22.

Granted these are team stats the include the WR's, TE's, and RB's. But the point I am trying to make is that as a group, i don't think it is the disaster you claim. 

Yes #17 does have a hand in this obviously, but he can't throw it to himself. Well, technically he did once. 

 

Go Bills!!! And stop hating on our receivers!!!!

i would guess those figures you highlight include yards after catch

 

that has to figure into the 'stretching the field' claim

[GaryPinC]

9 hours ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I think Beane overvalues his draft board vs. the grades given by other teams on certain players which has him consistently trading up and chasing a player and drafting for need. In the 2025 draft, he traded the team's 2 2nd rounders to Chicago for the 9th pick in the 2nd round to pick DT Sanders. He's been a serviceable rotational DT this year.

 

The Bears used those picks on an OT, Ozzy Trapilo, and DT, Shemar Turner. A DT that graded out on par with Sanders. So in theory, staying at 24 and 30 the Bills could have filled the DT need and selected another player at another position. Only 1 other DT went in the 2nd round, at 11 to the 49ers, before the 30th pick. Its hindsight but its also a good example of the value of staying put and not spending premium picks on trade ups in the draft. 

To be honest, at this point with the team we have, I favor trading up to get that player you really want and believe can be a difference maker.  It was one thing when we were building our team (and Beane has traded back many times), but now we need game changers.  Most DL need 2-3 years to develop so it's too early with Sanders.

[GaryPinC]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

This is right on the money. And there's more to it than just that. It's an integrated team-building approach. They don't do anything except by design. 

 

Two things happen when you get the right quarterback. One is you win a lot, so you're never in line for premium draft picks. The other is you pay him a fortune, so you never have cap room to buy much premium talent. It's just a given. (The exception is if your QB blossoms early, when you have a two- or three-year window with cap room.) The result is that it's very difficult come up with stud players to add to your roster. You have to get lucky with a Pucua or  a Benford.

 

McDermott's and Beane's approach to this problem always has been the same - build depth. That has two benefits. One is that instead of chasing after high-price talent and leaving yourself exposed at some positions, you have guys at every position that you can afford.  It also means that your bench players are nearly as good as most of your starters, so when injuries happen, you usually have a guy on your bench who can fill in quite well. 

 

It also means that you platoon some positions, particularly the receiver room and the defensive line.  That keeps your players fresher throughout the game, and it also means you can survive injuries with guys who have been playing a lot, anyway. Just about all of the Bills receivers have missed time, and so have many of the d linemen. The team moves on without missing them too much, because the replacements are all starter quality. 

 

Now, I know a bunch of people reading this are screaming, "That's nonsense. The Bills receivers are terrible, and their dline is a sieve."  Well, the Bills are 11th in yards per game passing, 7th in passing touchdowns, and 6th in passer rating, and that's with a team that has one of the top rushing attacks in the league - first in yards per game and second in rushing touchdowns. That means they have a very good passing attack, despite the absence of a high-end receiver. Then people will say, that's because they have Allen. Of course, but if you don't have your QB, we aren't having this question.  Sure, the Bills have Allen - he's what makes it possible to save money by having a receiver by committee approach and he's also the reason the Bills have to save money. And yes, the Bills give up a lot of yards rushing, but they're near the top of the league in yards passing allowed and they're 8th in defensive passer rating.  

 

The defense is 10th in yards per game and 14th in points per game, not great but not a disaster. So, the total defense is holding up, despite the absence of a stud dlineman.

 

This personnel philosophy is also complementary to the Bills' approach to offense and defense generally, which is that teamwork can produce greater advantages than marginally better talent. They believe that eight talented guys rotating on the dline will produce better results than four guys, one of whom is Watt or a Chris Jones. You can argue with that, but that's what they believe.  (And, as noted above, those eight guys rotating almost certainly are better than a team that relies on a Watt or a Jones when that guy is injured and out of the lineup).

 

So, it isn't simply that Beane prioritizes depth because he likes depth. They value depth over a few highly talented players and a bunch of other guys, because it fits better with their payroll, their draft status, and their ability to deal with injuries. And we see it working this season. Depth at receiver is working. Depth at o line has helped. And as much as people whine about it, Beane signing retread depth like White, Poyer, Philips, and Shaq Thompson has helped the Bills get to where they stand now. 

 

 

 

 

That's great for building a strong regular season team and culture, but we need to draft guys willing to step up and be difference makers in the playoffs. That's where we are at and Beane has to make the drafting shift.  Seems like he's starting to tune into it with this year's draft, but he needed to shift 2-4 years ago.

 

WRT salary concerns, that even more favors the first contract salary discounts through drafting.

[ganesh]

2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Most the league would still kill for our offensive line our running back room and our tight end room 

 

It's not built like a modern 2025 roster it is literally scoring a lot of points for years because it executes with its personnel 

 

Josh Allen can't take a bottom offensive line with no running backs and do what he's doing.. it works because he has a great offensive line which gets pushing the run game and three good tight ends

It begs the question on what happened in Houston.  How did that OL allow 8 sacks on the reigning league MVP...Made his work so hard by running in circles in that stadium