Darius Slay claimed on waivers by Buffalo

[Bockeye]

14 hours ago, BigAl2526 said:

Since Buffalo put Slay on the "reserved did not report" list, I wonder if they will release him after Buffalo plays Philadelphia.  There is no reason for Buffalo to keep him there indefinitely besides spite.  At the same time, I don't especially want to help a future opponent.

I don’t think they will. As someone pointed out, Boldin actually signed with us, retired, then subsequently asked Beane/Bills to release him so he could sign with another team. Beane said Nope!

 

Hopefully he does the same in this situation. 

[Tanoros]

7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Exactly.  Why hypothesize otherwise?

 

The results are that, after 12 games, Allen has already been sacked twice as many times as last season and will easily ecclipse his # of scrambles (already at 38 compared to 42 last season) and pressure %

Honestly, at this point I really have to applaud the consistency, not in your logic, but in your commitment to avoiding it.

 

We’ve now gone from:

 

“Number of sacks doesn’t mean anything about the O-line.”

 

to

 

“Allen has more sacks this year, so the O-line must be bad.”

 

…all while completely sidestepping pass block win rate, which has now been brought up twice and somehow keeps getting ignored like it’s in witness protection.

 

Just to remind you: PBWR specifically removes QB mobility, escape ability, scramble rate, extended plays, and all the things you keep trying to blame for last year’s excellent pass protection numbers. It measures only whether the lineman holds his block for 2.5 seconds. That’s it. None of the other noise factors in.

 

But since PBWR is apparently off-limits in this conversation, let me add one more inconvenient piece of objective data you’ll probably pretend not to see. I’m linking a composite chart that averages three independent analytics sources,  PFF, ESPN, and SIS. This isn’t one metric. It’s three combined. Guess where the Bills land?

 

Top right quadrant.

 

Which, in case the axes are tricky:

• higher pass protection efficiency

• better EPA per dropback

• better overall performance

 

Basically: “this O-line is good.”

 

But I’m sure when you see it, we’ll get Installment #3 of the ongoing saga “Metrics Don’t Count Unless They Agree With Me.”

 

Because we’ve already watched you redefine the meaning of sacks twice in the same thread, first they were meaningless, now they’re definitive proof, and the only consistent thing so far has been your determination to ignore anything measurable when it contradicts your conclusion.

 

That’s not analysis. That’s stubborn narrative maintenance.

 

Look, you’re absolutely entitled to your opinion. If you feel the O-line is bad, nobody can stop you. But pretending the data is on your side while actively avoiding the data? That’s a different conversation entirely.

 

Anyway, take a look at the chart or enjoy selectively ignoring it.

[HOUSE]

I completely understand how Slay would pick the warmer weather in Philadelphia over Buffalo

The guy should sell used cars and give up football..

Edited 17 hours ago by HOUSE

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, Tanoros said:

Honestly, at this point I really have to applaud the consistency, not in your logic, but in your commitment to avoiding it.

 

We’ve now gone from:

 

“Number of sacks doesn’t mean anything about the O-line.”

 

to

 

“Allen has more sacks this year, so the O-line must be bad.”

 

…all while completely sidestepping pass block win rate, which has now been brought up twice and somehow keeps getting ignored like it’s in witness protection.

 

Just to remind you: PBWR specifically removes QB mobility, escape ability, scramble rate, extended plays, and all the things you keep trying to blame for last year’s excellent pass protection numbers. It measures only whether the lineman holds his block for 2.5 seconds. That’s it. None of the other noise factors in.

 

But since PBWR is apparently off-limits in this conversation, let me add one more inconvenient piece of objective data you’ll probably pretend not to see. I’m linking a composite chart that averages three independent analytics sources,  PFF, ESPN, and SIS. This isn’t one metric. It’s three combined. Guess where the Bills land?

 

Top right quadrant.

 

Which, in case the axes are tricky:

• higher pass protection efficiency

• better EPA per dropback

• better overall performance

 

Basically: “this O-line is good.”

 

But I’m sure when you see it, we’ll get Installment #3 of the ongoing saga “Metrics Don’t Count Unless They Agree With Me.”

 

Because we’ve already watched you redefine the meaning of sacks twice in the same thread, first they were meaningless, now they’re definitive proof, and the only consistent thing so far has been your determination to ignore anything measurable when it contradicts your conclusion.

 

That’s not analysis. That’s stubborn narrative maintenance.

 

Look, you’re absolutely entitled to your opinion. If you feel the O-line is bad, nobody can stop you. But pretending the data is on your side while actively avoiding the data? That’s a different conversation entirely.

 

Anyway, take a look at the chart or enjoy selectively ignoring it.

 

Well, I didn't say the number of sacks is meaningless.  I said he doesn't take nearly as many if he was a non mobile QB behind that line.  Pretty simple. The logic of mentioning sacks (and pressures) is to point out  that the O-line, as far as how it protects Josh Allen this year, is both subjectively and objectively worse based on end results.  

 

I guess Allen is just squandering this top notch protection with poor QB play, no?

[Tanoros]

7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Well, I didn't say the number of sacks is meaningless.  I said he doesn't take nearly as many if he was a non mobile QB behind that line.  Pretty simple. The logic of mentioning sacks (and pressures) is to point out  that the O-line, as far as how it protects Josh Allen this year, is both subjectively and objectively worse based on end results.  

 

I guess Allen is just squandering this top notch protection with poor QB play, no?

Has the O-line performed worse this year than last? Yes, it has. That’s not a revelation, it’s a reality across several areas of the offense. But even with regression from last year’s elite standards, the Bills’ O-line is still performing at a top-tier level relative to the rest of the NFL. That part hasn’t changed.

 

I want to remind you why I originally responded: you said, “When the O-line is healthy they are bad at pass protection.” That was a bold claim, and it simply wasn’t supported by any available data. Since then you’ve shifted the goalposts to, “Well, the O-line isn’t as good as last year,” which is true, but irrelevant to your original statement. The discussion wasn’t about this year vs last year. It was about whether this line is “bad” at pass protection. The evidence says it isn’t.

 

And if we’re talking about the passing offense struggling this season, the O-line is one of the last places to look. There are multiple, far more plausible reasons:

• Joe Brady’s inconsistency

• lack of top-end receivers

• missing Kincaid and Palmer

• Beane’s overall WR room construction

• and yes, Allen himself at times

 

It’s not a mystery the pass game hasn’t reached expectations. But reaching for the O-line, one of the clear strengths of the roster, as the culprit simply doesn’t make sense. If anything, the O-line (in both run blocking and pass protection), Cook, and Allen (to be clear, Allen has had his moments which is why I noted him above too) have been the stabilizing forces of the offense while everything around them has fluctuated.

 

At this point, it’s fair to simply acknowledge that your original claim,  that the O-line is bad at pass protection when healthy,  was inaccurate. That’s why I responded in the first place: because it was an extreme statement that didn’t align with anything objective. Frustration with the broader offense is understandable, but attributing that frustration to the one unit that consistently grades near the top of the league is not.

 

We can disagree on interpretations, but we can’t ignore what the data shows. And the data has not supported your position from the start.

[Mr. WEO]

Touting the O line as top tier but not as good as last year (when I don’t think they were among the best) isn’t supported by the results. 
 

Yes the WR room stinks, but it’s not materially different from last year, minus Dalton, who had a depressed sophomore effort last year anyway (was better this  year before he went out, granted). Palmer is a WR 3/4 basically swapped for Hollins.  His 3+ targets per game aren’t the difference…

[Tanoros]

9 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Touting the O line as top tier but not as good as last year (when I don’t think they were among the best) isn’t supported by the results. 
 

Yes the WR room stinks, but it’s not materially different from last year, minus Dalton, who had a depressed sophomore effort last year anyway (was better this  year before he went out, granted). Palmer is a WR 3/4 basically swapped for Hollins.  His 3+ targets per game aren’t the difference…

What are you even talking about here? Your position seems to shift every time the actual data comes up. You started by saying the Bills have a bad pass blocking O-line, and now we are sort of implying the offense is struggling because of the O-line? Is that really where you want to plant your flag?

 

Because if we are sticking to facts, the things that do not move around mid argument, the Bills O-line ranked 5th in the NFL in pass block win rate last year, 2024. Fifth. That is the definition of elite relative to the rest of the league. So yes, the data is very clearly contradicting your narrative, whether you feel like the line was good or not.

 

What you keep doing is conflating offensive results with offensive line performance, and that is honestly wild. The offense can dip for a hundred reasons, QB play, WR talent, play calling, injuries, defensive adjustments, and none of that automatically traces back to the O-line. Same players as last year does not magically mean same offensive production, and pretending it does is just lazy analysis.

 

We also used way more 6 lineman sets last year, and Hawes reduces that need this season. That changes the entire structure of protection. So does TE usage, motion, and route concepts. If your argument depends on ignoring all of that nuance, that says a lot.

 

Let’s talk about Joe Brady, since somehow that part keeps getting ignored. Take the Houston game, which seems like the source of your O-line trauma. Houston was teeing off on Allen while we stuck with five blockers and minimal TE help. No adjustments. No chips. No shifting to heavier protections like last year. That is not an O-line talent issue, that is a coaching and scheme decision. Pure stubbornness.

 

And let’s not pretend WR personnel does not matter. Last year we traded for Amari. He did not light up the stat sheet, but defenses respected him. That alone changes spacing. This year we do not have that luxury.

 

So yes, something is going on with the passing game, but the most logical place to look is Brady and the overall offensive design, not an O-line that continues to grade out extremely well. I am genuinely confused why that is so hard for you to acknowledge.

 

Let me put it plainly:

Do you honestly believe the passing game struggles have more to do with the O-line than Joe Brady?

 

Lastly, your point about Josh’s scrambling lowering sack numbers is true, but that is true of every mobile QB. Yet even adjusting for that, the Bills allowed some of the lowest sack totals in the league last year. At some point, the credit goes where it belongs.

 

But if you want to keep insisting the O-line is the problem while the actual evidence keeps screaming the opposite, go ahead. Just do not expect everyone else to abandon reality with you.