Sean apologists... If McD gets fired without ever winning a Super Bowl, you will...

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

7 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

With the exception of Marino, none of those QBs are as good as Allen.  They also played in a different era without the benefit of FA.  Marino also reached a SB (not much of a consolidation prize).  

 

The roster construction around Allen has been horrendous, as has McDs desire for HS level "complementary" football.  

 

People aren't out here wanting multiple Championships (although with a guy like Allen who is arguably the best QB of all time given his passing and running).  

Allen isn’t the best QB of all time, but he is indeed the best athlete to ever play the position. But he still has many years to change that narrative. I’m not really arguing for or against OP because i’m on perpetually on the fence with McDermott, just stating facts that winning a SB is insanely hard to do. Way too many factors too list that can go wrong. 

[LabattBlue]

@DrDawkinstein Allow me to hijack your thread.  Josh has a ways to go before being considered the “greatest all-time Bill”.  IMO, Bruce Smith owns the title currently. 

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, LabattBlue said:

@DrDawkinstein Allow me to hijack your thread.  Josh has a ways to go before being considered the “greatest all-time Bill”.  IMO, Bruce Smith owns the title currently. 

 

Arguable but fair. I wouldnt say he has a ways to go tho. He already owns a bunch of records, he single-handedly contributes more than a DE ever could, he doesnt take plays off. But I get your point.

 

IMO by the end of Allen's career it wont be much of a debate.

[Freddie's Dead]

I'm surprised that there's so many for number 1.  The Sean lovers on this board will NEVER acknowledge that he wasted the career of the greatest QB that's ever lived.

[Gregg]

Interesting.

 

Ben Johnson and Mike Vrabel were the two hottest names on the coaching carousel this past offseason.

After 13 weeks, the Bears and Patriots are the No. 1 seeds in their respective conferences. pic.twitter.com/ooWyBePn2w

— Dianna Russini (@DMRussini) December 2, 2025

[GunnerBill]

On 12/1/2025 at 3:51 PM, DrDawkinstein said:

I dont think he gets fired this year, so that isnt the question.

 

Terry and many folks here seem to be happy sitting on a nice Regular Season win/loss record, and some AFC East Championships (although those days seem to be over now that there's a better HC in the Division).

 

When we go another few years of this garbage, and Josh has officially entered the end of his career, how happy will you McD Apologists be with nothing to show for it all?

 

I am considered on this board a McDermott apologist, I consider myself a realist, but them's the breaks. I'll continue to believe the lack of top end talent around Josh has let us down more than the coaching. But this year has not been acceptable, in lots of ways, and I think depending on how it ends there is a very real case for making a change. 

 

I kind of get there through Beane though. I both believe these two are a package deal and believe that is how you should operate in the NFL UNLESS you have a stud General Manager who proves they should get the keys to the castle - and we do not. You hire a GM and a HC who are aligned and then you ride or die by them as a regime. I think Beane's seat should be red hot. And I mean red hot. He is the guy who has spent the least draft capital on receivers in the league during his reign, he went on the radio and very publicly owned that and ridiculed anyone who dared question it and he needs to be accountable for that failure. There is no case for retaining McDermott once you get to firing Brandon Beane IMO. If you are doing it, clean house and let a new regime have a shot with Josh's back 9. 

 

I, like you, doubt this happens this year unless they really collapse from here. But there are definitely situations where I can conceive of myself thinking it should. 

[blacklabel]

I'll just be bummed out. I don't have the time or the energy to hate on the dude. Criticism is one thing but some people take it to a ridiculous level. 

 

IMO, a lot is owed to both McDermott and Beane. Sure, they aren't without faults, but they deserve a lot of credit for the turnaround from basement dwellers to contenders. 

 

I honestly don't see any major coaching or front office changes happening in the off-season regardless of what happens. But given that it's been a bit of a rough one personnel-wise maybe that gives Beane the itch to really try and wheel n deal with trades/free agency/the draft. 

[GoBills808]

Just now, blacklabel said:

I'll just be bummed out. I don't have the time or the energy to hate on the dude. Criticism is one thing but some people take it to a ridiculous level. 

 

IMO, a lot is owed to both McDermott and Beane. Sure, they aren't without faults, but they deserve a lot of credit for the turnaround from basement dwellers to contenders. 

 

I honestly don't see any major coaching or front office changes happening in the off-season regardless of what happens. But given that it's been a bit of a rough one personnel-wise maybe that gives Beane the itch to really try and wheel n deal with trades/free agency/the draft. 

we were not 'basement dwellers'. we were a .500 team when they came on

[blacklabel]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

we were not 'basement dwellers'. we were a .500 team when they came on

 

Splittin' hairs on this Tuesday afternoon. You go kick rocks, Dave. 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, blacklabel said:

 

Splittin' hairs on this Tuesday afternoon. You go kick rocks, Dave. 

😂😂this guy out here saying he doesn't have the energy to hate on them but definitely has the energy to misrepresent in support

[NewEra]

On 12/1/2025 at 9:07 AM, RyanC883 said:

 

With the exception of Marino, none of those QBs are as good as Allen.  They also played in a different era without the benefit of FA.  Marino also reached a SB (not much of a consolidation prize).  

 

The roster construction around Allen has been horrendous, as has McDs desire for HS level "complementary" football.  

 

People aren't out here wanting multiple Championships (although with a guy like Allen who is arguably the best QB of all time given his passing and running).  

They also didn’t play in the era of this chiefs team.  
 

we’ve had one obstacle other than luck.  KC.  Which will go down as one of the greatest dynasties in nfl history.   
 

I was all for firing McDermott and hiring Johnson or Vrabel.  I’m not all for firing McD just to fire him.  Who’s his replacement? McDermott IS a good coach.  He may not be elite, but the backup plan better be good.  If it’s not, we’ve essentially closed the door on Josh ever winning a Super Bowl.  Placing our trust in Pegula to hire the right guys is more laughable that McD winning a Super Bowl.  
 

some people think that having McD as the coach = zero % chance to win a Super Bowl.  I don’t think that’s the case.  Most logical minds that aren’t already harboring ill will towards him would agree.  
 

[Avisan]

Genuinely most of the people that most vocally want him gone seem to be upset that he's a decent human being

 

It's why they have to make up absurd character attacks or call him spineless or gutless or other things that are demonstrably untrue

 

They want an ***hole at head coach because they themselves are miserable ***holes and they can't stand the idea of success from somebody that's actually a decent human being so he MUST be a coward and/or incompetent

 

Shoutout to the couple of folks on here who seem to be level-headed about it but goodness you are few and far between

[GoBills808]

8 minutes ago, NewEra said:

They also didn’t play in the era of this chiefs team.  
 

we’ve had one obstacle other than luck.  KC.  Which will go down as one of the greatest dynasties in nfl history.   
 

I was all for firing McDermott and hiring Johnson or Vrabel.  I’m not all for firing McD just to fire him.  Who’s his replacement? McDermott IS a good coach.  He may not be elite, but the backup plan better be good.  If it’s not, we’ve essentially closed the door on Josh ever winning a Super Bowl.  Placing our trust in Pegula to hire the right guys is more laughable that McD winning a Super Bowl.  
 

some people think that having McD as the coach = zero % chance to win a Super Bowl.  I don’t think that’s the case.  Most logical minds that aren’t already harboring ill will towards him would agree.  
 

serious question- how do we know he's a good coach?

 

couldn't basically any HC have similar success w the amount of touchdowns we've scored during Allen's time here?

[Gunsgoodtime]

22 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

 

Splittin' hairs on this Tuesday afternoon. You go kick rocks, Dave. 

Dave is right, you are upset that Dave is right.  Josh Allen makes up the difference, not The Wizard of busts and Mcdefense guru

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

serious question- how do we know he's a good coach?

 

couldn't basically any HC have similar success w the amount of touchdowns we've scored during Allen's time here?

If he was a good coach, and Beane was a good gm, we would have multiple SB trophies

Edited 21 minutes ago by Gunsgoodtime

[DrDawkinstein]

7 minutes ago, Avisan said:

Genuinely most of the people that most vocally want him gone seem to be upset that he's a decent human being

 

It's why they have to make up absurd character attacks or call him spineless or gutless or other things that are demonstrably untrue

 

 

False. Go over to the "Sean Haters" thread or any of the past discussion threads on this board and the vast majority of us who want him gone all preface every post with "He's a great guy and good coach for changing the culture, etc etc", and we STILL get called haters and misrepresented like you're doing here.

 

Not upset he's a good human being at all. That's his top selling quality. And good for him.

 

Not a single personal character attack on him.

You're making all this up because a large number of Bills fans see critical football discussions as being "mean". We're not allowed to debate and discuss, we're only allowed to cheer.

[Avisan]

3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

False. Go over to the "Sean Haters" thread or any of the past discussion threads on this board and the vast majority of us who want him gone all preface every post with "He's a great guy and good coach for changing the culture, etc etc", and we STILL get called haters and misrepresented like you're doing here.

 

Not upset he's a good human being at all. That's his top selling quality. And good for him.

Sure, sure.  I know many people who will say that when they're calm in in "polite company"

 

Those same folks sing a very different tune both IRL and on this board during games, after losses, or during any other Bills-related distress

 

When people tell me who they are, I believe them

[Boatdrinks]

On 12/1/2025 at 11:30 AM, T.E. said:

The Pegula stuff is speculation, obviously, but I have seen several Bills fans here and elsewhere say that they are happy with just making the playoffs and having a shot each year. No real desire to try to win the Super Bowl because they are "enjoying the ride" of having a good team.

Doesn’t matter what a fan or any fans think. They have zero impact on changes made or not made in the organization. Terry will either make changes in order to get a championship with Allen or he won’t . That’s about it. I hope he does make them. 

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, Avisan said:

Sure, sure.  I know many people who will say that when they're calm in in "polite company"

 

Those same folks sing a very different tune both IRL and on this board during games, after losses, or during any other Bills-related distress

 

When people tell me who they are, I believe them

 

Maybe you just need to hang out with better people then.

 

But dont paint all of us who want a coaching change as mere hateful aholes.

[Avisan]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Maybe you just need to hang out with better people then.

 

But dont paint all of us who want a coaching change as mere hateful aholes.

I didn't, and it's telling that you assumed you were being referred to

 

And we don't get to choose 100% of the people we exist around

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Avisan said:

I didn't, and it's telling that you assumed you were being referred to

 

And we don't get to choose 100% of the people we exist around

 

It tells nothing. YOU literally started this with "most of the people who vocally want him gone". Yeah, I'm vocal that I want him gone. Beyond that you were wrong on every other point.