Joe B article - Elijah Moore, Curtis Samuel, Gabe Davis

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

I just find it so interesting that in all the fixes I see from different people .......No one has Coleman playing as much, or in some cases, not at all! I can't argue in favor of Keon, but I do believe that this organization will continue to play him- a lot. When Gabe comes back it will be in the Shavers role.

Edited 2 hours ago by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower

[streetkings01]

All you have to do is look at Diggs numbers once Brady took over. He has no idea how to scheme receivers open! 

 

We could’ve gave Brady that 2020 receiver core with Diggs, Brown, Beasley and Davis and their numbers would still be amongst the worst in the NFL! He’s a run game coordinator…..Josh won MVP but his passing yards and passing touchdowns were down.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

17 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

That...isn't as reassuring as I think he meant it to be....

Our lasting memories are bad, but Gabe was a dude here before we were like 'be WR2.'

 

Expert at sideline catches and sneaky good deep ball. 

[Jester]

59 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Gabe Davis:

 

'As of late last week, the Bills had gone through almost two full weeks of practice with Gabe Davis, who is still somehow only 26 years old. ...

Why am I laughing so hard at this?  Is he another Tremaine Edmonds?  LOL

 

Anyway,  I hope Gabe still has juice in the tank and can help us. 

[Brand J]

41 minutes ago, T.E. said:

Is it just a coincidence that multiple guys who used to be able to get open (Diggs, Knox, Shakir, Samuel, Moore, etc.) under other OCs happen to struggle mightily with Joe Brady in that role?

Right, the “can’t get open” is so overplayed and has taken a life of its own. “Open” in the NFL is having a step or two on the defender. Not every QB gets to throw to college open players like Lamar Jackson. Whether it’s passing game design or Allen not pulling the trigger, the receivers in this offense, Brady’s offense, are not the best versions of themselves. It’s also no coincidence Diggs’ numbers plummeted once he took over for Dorsey. 

[GunnerBill]

42 minutes ago, T.E. said:

Is it just a coincidence that multiple guys who used to be able to get open (Diggs, Knox, Shakir, Samuel, Moore, etc.) under other OCs happen to struggle mightily with Joe Brady in that role?

 

Shakir has only really got open under this OC, Samuel likewise - his best success was under Joe Brady in Carolina. Moore has never been great at route running and getting open. That leaves you with Knox who they are just using a lot less in the pass game than 2 or 3 years ago and Diggs who did struggle back end of 2023, that's fair. I don't think he was fully healthy personally. 

[Success]

I like the idea of a  mostly new receiver corps - Palmer, Shakir, Davis, Hardman, Moore.  There is some good speed in a group like that, and if Davis really can regain some form, at least a legit #2.

 

 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Shakir has only really got open under this OC, Samuel likewise - his best success was under Joe Brady in Carolina. Moore has never been great at route running and getting open. That leaves you with Knox who they are just using a lot less in the pass game than 2 or 3 years ago and Diggs who did struggle back end of 2023, that's fair. I don't think he was fully healthy personally. 

[boyst]

Silly NY Times thinking they should earn money for words...

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

 

That is interesting on Moore, but he isn't a great route runner and never has been. Maybe he was running a ton of go routes I'm not sure, because he does have plenty of speed. It's the nuances he lacks. 

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

Moore is a technician. He’s grossly underrated. Trot out Moore Palmer Shakir with Gabe sprinkled in and you have at least an average group. 

thats honestly not an average group yet but its less bad 

[BuffaloBillyG]

41 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Our lasting memories are bad, but Gabe was a dude here before we were like 'be WR2.'

 

Expert at sideline catches and sneaky good deep ball. 

I agree, he was good at sideline catches and an occasional deep ball. And he NEVER should have been asked to be WR2. 

 

BUT on this offense, this year...where would he slot in now? Maybe you could force an argument that Palmer would be WR1? But that would likely be Gabe at....WR2 again.

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, dorquemada said:

We could have prime Tyreek Hill and if the Offensive scheme eschews the forward pass it wouldn't matter

 

Brady's got to go.

Some of it I think you've got to put on Allen.  Brady's scheme in 2020 with Teddy Bridgewater of the QB had two 1,000 plus yard receivers in DJ Morre and Robbie Anderson.  Curtis Samuel also had 800 plus yards that year.  I don't buy that his scheme neuters WR's.

[transient]

1 hour ago, Blackbeard said:

 I feel like Davis had some important drops, and that's what led to his *mostly hatred by the fanbase.

 

I always thought Davis was a nice receiver that i'd have loved to hold onto if the price was right a few years back.

 

Actually excited to see him back in the line up.  He's got some talent and that's undeniable.  And he's shown hes clutch.  

He was also very bad at deciding where to take his route on options leading to a lot of awful looking INTs because Allen expected him to be in a different place based on the look the defense was giving. 

 

My frustration then, as now, is with Beane and McDermott. He wasn't capable of the role he was being asked to play. He's a nice accessory, not a featured piece. Now they have a whole WR room full of guys like that, and this is where it got us.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

53 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

I just find it so interesting that in all the fixes I see from different people .......No one has Coleman playing as much, or in some cases, not at all! I can't argue in favor of Keon, but I do believe that this organization will continue to play him- a lot. When Gabe comes back it will be in the Shavers role.

 

Also depends where palmer is with his injury.  Everything worked better with him in there - he's by far the best WR on the roster at beating press coverage and man coverage.  Gabe can hopefully provide some flexibility there so he can ease his way back into the lineup.  

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

3 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Also depends where palmer is with his injury.  Everything worked better with him in there - he's by far the best WR on the roster at beating press coverage and man coverage.  Gabe can hopefully provide some flexibility there so he can ease his way back into the lineup.  

Shavers is not an NFL receiver for me.

[GoBills808]

Just now, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Shavers is not an NFL receiver for me.

lesean mccoy kept making this point on his podcast

 

we're putting guys out there who wouldn't start on other teams and expecting great results

[dave mcbride]

8 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Also depends where palmer is with his injury.  Everything worked better with him in there - he's by far the best WR on the roster at beating press coverage and man coverage.  Gabe can hopefully provide some flexibility there so he can ease his way back into the lineup.  

Full participation in practice today and McDermott said he understands Palmer is trending to play vs. TB. 

[Livinginthepast]

The question about what the problem is with the Bills passing offense is like one of those tough multiple choice questions from college/university. The kind that confounded you because you had to find the MOST CORRECT answer. The choices seem to be:

 

a) The receivers are garbage and cannot get open, Josh has nobody to throw to.

 

b) Brady is garbage and his schemes are too predictable and get nobody open, Josh has nobody to throw to.

 

c) Josh has been garbage this season, his receivers are open all over the place but his head is not in the right space and he too worried about throwing a pick.

 

d) The Bills whole offense is based on running, they dont care about passing anymore

 

e) All of the above

 

f) none of the above

[TheyCallMeAndy]

25 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I agree, he was good at sideline catches and an occasional deep ball. And he NEVER should have been asked to be WR2. 

 

BUT on this offense, this year...where would he slot in now? Maybe you could force an argument that Palmer would be WR1? But that would likely be Gabe at....WR2 again.

"WR2" but he's target 2-4.

 

Kincaid, Shakir, and Palmer should average more targets. 

 

Davis didn't play from the slot when he was newer, he just subbed in on the outside IIRC. 
 

Let him and Coleman split the outside reps.