Joe B article - Elijah Moore, Curtis Samuel, Gabe Davis

[dorquemada]

9 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

lesean mccoy kept making this point on his podcast

 

we're putting guys out there who wouldn't start on other teams and expecting great results

 

Especially on Twitter, the reaction every time we add some room temp body to the PS is getting more sad by the day

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

14 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

lesean mccoy kept making this point on his podcast

 

we're putting guys out there who wouldn't start on other teams and expecting great results

 

I wouldn't disagree.  You also appointed a guy as a WR1 who isn't there yet, and may never ascend to that level.  I'm not an arm-chair GM who likes to talk about woulda coulda shoulda - this is the team you have.  You have to figure out how to get him going, benching him isn't going to just all of a sudden fix things - not to mention WHEN (not if, cuz lets be real they have terrible injury luck this year) he's called upon you want him to respond.  

 

Lining up WR1, and WR6 with the WR2 out is certainly "a choice".  Palmer gets hurt and somehow we see shavers on more snaps than samuel and moore.  The sub-package games that brady plays are challenging to get into a rhythm both as a passer and a receiver.  Gimme the best guys, and make decisions based on if someone is tired - not because you prepared like 8 plays with samuel/moore in motion.

 

You have a couple PS call-ups for gabe, you should get palmer back soon - then it becomes cut shavers once you run out of call-ups for gabe.  Figure out the ST snaps after the fact.  

5 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

 

Especially on Twitter, the reaction every time we add some room temp body to the PS is getting more sad by the day

 

I just deleted it, between the "fans" who do nothing but complain and the "experts" who react to like 6 plays without actually watching the game it was just irritating me.  

Edited 5 hours ago by Bleeding Bills Blue

[nosejob]

2 hours ago, The Cincinnati Kid said:

What sucks is if/when Gabe move to the Active Roster, it will likely be Shavers who is released. Hopefully back to the PS, but who knows. Coleman will be inactive on game days, but he isn’t getting released.

And I agree on more Moore.

Shavers and Davis on the outside makes the most sense. Palmer can run those deep posts and outside slants. Davis, Shavers, Palmer and Shakir with Keon being strictly red zone. Samuel should be the first to P.S.  I have a hard time thinking Moore's gonna be targeted any more than he has been.

Edited 4 hours ago by nosejob

[BuffaloBillyG]

20 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

"WR2" but he's target 2-4.

 

Kincaid, Shakir, and Palmer should average more targets. 

 

Davis didn't play from the slot when he was newer, he just subbed in on the outside IIRC. 
 

Let him and Coleman split the outside reps. 

So we agree, he may see WR2 type targets.

 

Kincaid is out for the foreseeable future. A week at best but I'd predict two almost certainly with the next game on a Thursday. Palmer is working his way back.

 

Shakir, as you point out Davis doesn't play from the slot. So boundary targets, one could argue Gabe would get the most of considering Josh has worked with him longer than Palmer and Coleman combined. I feel like Josh would have the most trust there

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

35 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

The question about what the problem is with the Bills passing offense is like one of those tough multiple choice questions from college/university. The kind that confounded you because you had to find the MOST CORRECT answer. The choices seem to be:

 

a) The receivers are garbage and cannot get open, Josh has nobody to throw to.

 

b) Brady is garbage and his schemes are too predictable and get nobody open, Josh has nobody to throw to.

 

c) Josh has been garbage this season, his receivers are open all over the place but his head is not in the right space and he too worried about throwing a pick.

 

d) The Bills whole offense is based on running, they dont care about passing anymore

 

e) All of the above

 

f) none of the above

How about multiple choices?

[Livinginthepast]

37 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

How about multiple choices?

yes I think you could easily argue A and C or B and C etc. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

3 hours ago, The Cincinnati Kid said:

What sucks is if/when Gabe move to the Active Roster, it will likely be Shavers who is released. Hopefully back to the PS, but who knows. Coleman will be inactive on game days, but he isn’t getting released.

And I agree on more Moore.

Shavers had his shot and fumbled it. This season was the perfect one to step up and he didn’t. 

[BillsShredder83]

5 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6799104/2025/11/12/bills-offense-josh-allen-gabe-davis-wide-receiver/

 

Joe B has observations on the entire receiving corps, but here are his takes on Moore, Samuel, and Davis.

 

Elijah Moore vs. Curtis Samuel:

 

'The player I think deserves some more run, based on what the film shows, is Elijah Moore. He’s the smallest receiver on their roster, but as a route runner, separator and someone who can eat up space in a hurry because of his speed, he’s the fastest option. Moore runs his routes hard and gets in and out of his breaks quickly. You can see defenders giving him a bit more cushion because of those routes, too. His speed, even for a clearout route, can help more than Curtis Samuel, who has been used in that function quite a bit.

 

Samuel gave the Bills some good snaps near the end of the season, but that same player just has not been there in 2025 despite being fully healthy. Inconsistency has followed his Bills career, and it’s gotten even worse this season. Over his five active games, Samuel has run a total of 73 routes, according to TruMedia and Pro Football Focus. He’s been targeted only six times. For wide receivers in 2025 who have run at least 50 routes, Samuel’s 8.2 percent target rate ranks 138th out of 144 qualifying players. He’s run mostly empty-calorie routes this season and has drawn little attention from defenders. He doesn’t provide the same cushion or verticality as Moore. Plus, Samuel’s routes don’t have the same precision as others on the team. Samuel’s lone target against the Dolphins came on a scramble drill when he just stopped and stood where he was while Allen bought more time for someone to get open. Taking Samuel’s snaps and putting them in the hands of receivers who can better threaten a defense can help maximize Allen’s opportunities.'

 

Gabe Davis:

 

'As of late last week, the Bills had gone through almost two full weeks of practice with Gabe Davis, who is still somehow only 26 years old. ... So, in his five other practices, how has he looked after almost a yearlong layoff from football? And how close has he looked to the player he was during his first stint with the Bills?

 

The Bills have some long-tenured defensive backs who have seen all of his Buffalo career, and The Athletic caught up with them about Davis on Friday, ahead of the Dolphins game. Each of them said many of the same things, most notably that Davis is already making an impact on the field despite his limited practice time.

 

“Once he got on the practice field that first day, he was making some insane catches. Like jumping up in the air, going to get it,” cornerback Tre’Davious White said. “He looked explosive. He looked fast. Catching great balls, great catch radius. He’s up there in the air getting the ball. He could definitely help us. He can help this team.”

 

“I feel like he’s close to the Gabe that you guys remember before he left,” defensive back Cam Lewis said. “He’s going out there and just being himself. The same player, the same Gabe that you remember, is what we’ve seen so far.”

 

Nickel corner Taron Johnson echoed those sentiments in practice as well, including that when Davis gets to play, he’s going to help the team tremendously. And again, this was all said before the Bills struggled to move the ball through the air in Miami.

 

“I feel like it’s a boost for our offense. … Just another attention grabber for defense,” Lewis said. “Who (defenses) need to pay attention to, keep a roof over. And when you do that, you expose a lot of other areas in your defense.”

 

“I mean, he’s got so much talent. But when you mix the talent with a guy that works extremely hard at what he does, the results are going to show,” White added. “I know what type of player he is. I played with him for three, four, five years, so I just know what he brings to the table. And then Josh trusts him, too. He knows the offense. They have a great relationship off the field, so that always helps.”

 

“I feel like that vertical threat is something that Gabe will help us a lot, too,” Lewis said. “I think he can help us in a lot of different ways. Whenever he gets that green light, I know he’s going to make a lot of plays for our football team.”

 

Trust from Allen and verticality — two things the Bills desperately need from their receivers group — are key reasons Davis could be up and active, possibly as soon as against the Buccaneers this weekend.'

2 things:

 

1. Absolutely infuriating to read about Samuel. What an absolute POS. Whats his f***** deal? Got paid really well and hes standing around during scramble drill?

 

Its embarrassing to have that guy on the roster let alone getting any meaningful snaps. Especially when Moore is better suited for these clearing routes.... and ill indications pointing to Elijah atleast "caring."

 

....after 15months of standing around holding his hand while hes hurt or "hurt" or whatever is going on.

 

Im guessing ther are cap implications that prevent us from cutting him, but if there isnt hes the perfect player to "execute" in front of everyone else -- via the waiver wire. I know its not in our DNA but he should be snornfully cut in front of the whole team. Embarass him, even if he doesn't care.

 

2: We've seen Gabe at his peak- which leaves a lot to desire, and i still dont think were getting that player because of rust/injury.

 

But I gotta say, even as a puff piece section of the article...  I dont trust anything positive any of the DB's had to say about him or anyone else. Not that they should handle it differently- they shouldn't- but after hearing them talk Keon up all offseason, I don't trust any compliments they have for anyone.

 

Anywhere, thanks for posting. Don't take my vitriol towards the messenger!! Its Wednesday and im as angry as I was when the game ended. Maybe angrier.

 

I have yet to see anything indicating anybody on this team cares right now, including McD. I know everyone's piling on him, but I honestly havent EVER had the belief he didnt care before. Everything weve seen on the field, players demeanors, these articles all certainly seem to reflect it. 

 

I know its not his style, but we should've seen red face, spit flying, borderline cardiac event from him on the sidelines. Hes lost the room and knows it.

[The Frankish Reich]

5 hours ago, NoName said:

What value does Shavers bring?

special teams mostly

[BillsShredder83]

5 hours ago, The Cincinnati Kid said:

What sucks is if/when Gabe move to the Active Roster, it will likely be Shavers who is released. Hopefully back to the PS, but who knows. Coleman will be inactive on game days, but he isn’t getting released.

And I agree on more Moore.

Shavers? Cmon. The only person who should be worried about him making the PS is his landlord. 

 

I have a hard time caring about ST's when weve continued to invest more heavily in them than the components of a real offense. I know they matter but:

 

1. Defense

2. ST's

3.

4.

5. Offense

 

Its a priority list that I cant bring myself to even care about right now.

[FLFan]

5 hours ago, dorquemada said:

 

meh.  I see jet sweeps and bubble screens as the main non-Cook vehicles in this offense, particularly at critical times.  

Those are what Allen is throwing but those are not the only options built into the passing game.  Allen is playing very tentative at times, making bad decisions, and has not been consistent in his accuracy.  This was very evident in the Miami game.  There were numerous examples of WRs being open that Allen either did not see or chose not to throw.  I am not suggesting the Bills WR core is going to be confused with the league’s best, but in my view, so far this year, Allen bears a big responsibility for the struggle of the passing game.  I would rank the culprits in order of negative impact so far to be Allen, then the WRs, then Brady.  

[The Frankish Reich]

I'll give Beane the benefit of the doubt on this one - maybe a healthy Gabe Davis looked like a better option than trading for the not-exactly-stellar WR talent that was out there. We shall see.

[BillsShredder83]

4 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

If Davis can work the sidelines and get 10-15 yards consistently for about 5-7 catches per game he'd be a welcome addition to this offense. Yet the year before he left he was not playing his best and clearly was over paid by Jacksonville. 

Thats always been his flaw. You cant count on him for any type of volume. His last season here, im not looking it up, but he had like 16/17 games with 3 or less catches... and like 14 of those were 2 or less. 

 

But yes if he could increase his production by 200-250% from last time, than yes, he'd be a welcome addition 😂

4 hours ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

This says "through 3 weeks" in 2023. I genuinely dont know what the full season would look like, maybe its this good... but cant tell anything from that graphic

[TheyCallMeAndy]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

So we agree, he may see WR2 type targets.

 

Kincaid is out for the foreseeable future. A week at best but I'd predict two almost certainly with the next game on a Thursday. Palmer is working his way back.

 

Shakir, as you point out Davis doesn't play from the slot. So boundary targets, one could argue Gabe would get the most of considering Josh has worked with him longer than Palmer and Coleman combined. I feel like Josh would have the most trust there

Maybe, Keon Coleman has the most snaps of any WR this season (70%), where Shakir has played about 61%
 

Despite this, Shakir out targets him 58 to 49. 
 

If they benched Keon, I think Davis and Palmer would see an uptick, but Keon would still rotate in. Shakir would likely still be Allen's top choice when he is in. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

11 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Thats always been his flaw. You cant count on him for any type of volume. His last season here, im not looking it up, but he had like 16/17 games with 3 or less catches... and like 14 of those were 2 or less. 

 

But yes if he could increase his production by 200-250% from last time, than yes, he'd be a welcome addition 😂

I looked it up, he had 10 games with under 3 catches, 5 games with under 3 targets. 

Just now, TheyCallMeAndy said:

I looked it up, he had 10 games with under 3 catches, 5 games with under 3 targets. 

He also had 5 games with more than 80 yards, 4 with more than 100

[dorquemada]

1 hour ago, FLFan said:

Those are what Allen is throwing but those are not the only options built into the passing game.  Allen is playing very tentative at times, making bad decisions, and has not been consistent in his accuracy.  This was very evident in the Miami game.  There were numerous examples of WRs being open that Allen either did not see or chose not to throw.  I am not suggesting the Bills WR core is going to be confused with the league’s best, but in my view, so far this year, Allen bears a big responsibility for the struggle of the passing game.  I would rank the culprits in order of negative impact so far to be Allen, then the WRs, then Brady.  

I never want to see this team run a jet sweep again

[Psautcsk]

3 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

I never want to see this team run a jet sweep again

Why do you think McKen..., I mean Hardman was signed.