Bills Utter Collapse-- Jim Kubiak BN

[Juice_32]

18 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Using the Grays Sports Almanac, Biff? Or how else can you explain knowing the future?

 

Oh it has nothing to do with knowing the future. It's more than likely a perceived, potential manifestation of deeply seeded fears. Fears that stem from buried layers of BBFS. I think there is a psychological term for it but I'm no expert.

[extrahammer]

6 minutes ago, Dillenger4 said:

Reading comprehension issues I see.

But yes, a lot of fans feel this way. Just not us Bills fans. We are on an 11 page rant about his play THIS YEAR and you are responding like a ____________.

 

You're grossly exaggerating things. A lot of fans/people?? Prove it. IMO a very small percentage of the fanbase would agree with you. Very small. That's beside the fact you're avoiding explaining how the last 5-6 years is different. 

Edited 2 hours ago by extrahammer

[CincyBillsFan]

28 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

It's speculation on both of our parts but I think your theories (the previous one about Josh being a company man and now your Darnold and Burrow theories are ridiculous. You create these theories out of thin air.

 

I live in Cincinnati, how is my speculation on Burrow "ridiculous".  The Bengals have taken the exact opposite approach to the Bills in how they structured their roster around their elite QB.  Are you denying this?  And IMO if Burrow had Allen's track record of staying healthy they would have at least one SB win to go along with the 2021 appearance they already have. I don't see how this is even debatable.

 

As for Darnold it would be only natural that QB's who are friends check out what what each of their teams is doing for their offenses.  Are you seriously telling me that Allen didn't notice that the Seahawks signed a WR that many were speculating the Bills would sign?

 

 

 

 

[<bills4life>]

6 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Bottom line Josh isnt right in he head right now.  We have all seen it and talked about it, you can see it in how he plays and the look on his face.

 

I think Hailee has him messed up, AND the lack of WR talent has gotten to him.

 

Im gonna double down and say he retires sooner than later. 

 

 

 

 

You never know.  He is rich, loves golf, and who knows what the bumps and bruises will look like in three years. Couple that with the frustration and playoff failures, it would not shock me in the least.  I’m assuming you are getting the eye rolls due to the retirement thing. Because you would have to be living under a rock or extremely poor in reading body language to not know there is something not right. The fire and fun factor look lacking this season. Him sulking quietly at the end of the bench by himself is not a good look. 

[DapperCam]

If people think Allen is playing very poorly, they should take a look around the league. He’s still top-5 or top-10 in most interesting stats. Going into this past week he still had the #1 odds for MVP.

 

If your QB has to play at an MVP level to win games then something is screwed up.

[CincyBillsFan]

49 minutes ago, JMM said:

Yup don't disagree with your points at all. Last season the everyone eats O was also starting to grind and that's why Beane got Cooper as a temporary fix. This is certainly not all on Josh in any way. Unfortunately it's several problems. Most of which we know.

 

1. Beane. I understood and supported the Diggs trade. But in trying to upgrade this position he has been completely half assed about it.  Either from arrogance,  ignorance or combo. When you have a Allen, this like I say borders on criminal for your responsibility as a GM.

 

2. Brady. It doesn't appear like he has adjusted to D adjustments over the past year or two now. His plays are predictable based on personel groupings.  The commentators were basically calling the plays in advance on Sunday.  Does he self scout??? You have to change it up. Also, you HAVE to try to take the top of the O several times a game. The Fins played a base D, with a single high safety and dared the Bills to go over the top. Let me repeat that: THE DOLPHINS, WITH ONE OF THE WORST SECONDARY IN THE NFL DARED JOSH ALLEN TO BEAT THEM THROUGH THE AIR. That sentence should NEVER ever be written. 

 

3. Josh as I outlined in my original post. Last year he played within the system as needed, he let the game come to him. He isn't doing that this year. That has to be figured out or changed. He doesn't trust the system or the players anymore. That can't continue.  He said himself after the game I've got to give guys a chance. Yes, he does. 

 

 

 

Your 3rd point is crucial and is the basis for the argument over how much Allen's play is responsible for what we're seeing.  My sense is that Allen continues to bend over backwards to give guys a chance.  An that is an issue. I also suspect that in his heart of hearts Allen doesn't trust the system and as the season has ground on he's losing trust in some of the WR's.

 

I would also suggest that last years system was different in that it still featured a bit of the cowboy offense that DaBoll & Dorsey favored.  There were multiple games where the Bills understood they were in a shootout and unleashed the O accordingly.  This season with the exception of the Ravens game they have resisted this and in games where the offense struggles early and the D is porous they continue to double down on the short pass/run game.  And even in the Ravens game they waited until the last possible minute.

 

 

 

 

[<bills4life>]

6 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

If people think Allen is playing very poorly, they should take a look around the league. He’s still top-5 or top-10 in most interesting stats. Going into this past week he still had the #1 odds for MVP.

 

If your QB has to play at an MVP level to win games then something is screwed up.

I don’t think most people think that at all. It’s the fact that he even has to be Superman game in and out that is totally infuriating.  Dude is one of the best playoff qbs in history and it still isn’t good enough. Not a reflection on him at all. It’s a screaming indictment on both beane and McDermott.  Not to mention some of his teammates not executing in critical moments. 

[tigerthelion]

5 hours ago, JMM said:

This is a GREAT analysis by Jim who always does a great job and often has marveled at how great Allen can be. The bottom line is that Josh is simply not playing within the system like he did all last year and the half season when Brady took over. He's not taking the easy outlets,  he's indecisive,  he is impatient, his fundamentals and footwork are poor again. The reasons for this need to be figured out. This is more than a slump. It's very surprising.  I didn't expect him to play at last year's level, but not this kind of backslide. It is very puzzling. 

That's the problem , really.  Who is going to figure out the reasons?  Maybe Josh Allen needs a bit of guidance.  Who will give him that?  

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Josh Allen is quite frankly not playing well.  His mechanics, foot work, pocket presence, and vision have all been a mess.  What too many people here do is throw their hands up and say "Its the WR's" - and they do that under an assumption rather than actual film study/review.  They think Allen is so good that his issues can't possibly be his fault, that it must be who the personnel is.  

 

And no one is disagreeing with wanting a top end WR1.  But, that does not get to just be a convenient excuse to gloss over and ignore the bigger issues around Allen, Brady, the OL, execution, self inflicted mistakes, bad turnovers, etc. 

Again Allen is not playing at an MVP level but EVERY stat available for judging a QB would say he is playing in the top 10.  There is almost no credible support for the idea that Allen is NOT playing well. And that ranges from every QB metric to the Bills won/loss record.  Could he be playing better?  Yes, though the lack of big play WR's is a limiting factor as to how much better he could play.  

 

 

 

 

[<bills4life>]

4 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Your 3rd point is crucial and is the basis for the argument over how much Allen's play is responsible for what we're seeing.  My sense is that Allen continues to bend over backwards to give guys a chance.  An that is an issue. I also suspect that in his heart of hearts Allen doesn't trust the system and as the season has ground on he's losing trust in some of the WR's.

 

I would also suggest that last years system was different in that it still featured a bit of the cowboy offense that DaBoll & Dorsey favored.  There were multiple games where the Bills understood they were in a shootout and unleashed the O accordingly.  This season with the exception of the Ravens game they have resisted this and in games where the offense struggles early and the D is porous they continue to double down on the short pass/run game.  And even in the Ravens game they waited until the last possible minute.

 

 

 

 

Ding ding ding. We have a winner.  Great post!  Spot on.

[Success]

"Utter collapse" is pretty dramatic.  We had a no-show kind of week, but it's hardly unusual for contending teams to have a few bad ones during the season.

 

We just came off a game that the whole country watched & we played a fantastic game on both sides of the ball.  Miami was a clear letdown game, and we looked flat from that 1st 3rd down attempt through the end.

 

It happens. The Phins were incredibly motivated - it reminded me of how the Bills would get up for some of the Pats games during the drought (though we didn't actually win many).  

 

I was pretty down after the game, but there is too much panic right now.  If we can get back to better health - and it looks like we are for the  most part - we can go on a good run.

 

[tigerthelion]

12 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

If people think Allen is playing very poorly, they should take a look around the league. He’s still top-5 or top-10 in most interesting stats. Going into this past week he still had the #1 odds for MVP.

 

If your QB has to play at an MVP level to win games then something is screwed up.

Just need to look at everybody's gold standard - Patrick Mahomes - in 2023 and 2024.  This is kind of how he looked. He looked  awful at times.  Probably not a big secret why.  The defense carried that Chiefs time for those seasons.    For the Bills to win, Josh Allen has to be playing at an MVP level.  Fair or not, that's the reality in Buffalo.  He has not played to that level this year.  Will he down the stretch?  Who knows. 

[SoonerBillsFan]

22 minutes ago, &lt;bills4life&gt; said:

You never know.  He is rich, loves golf, and who knows what the bumps and bruises will look like in three years. Couple that with the frustration and playoff failures, it would not shock me in the least.  I’m assuming you are getting the eye rolls due to the retirement thing. Because you would have to be living under a rock or extremely poor in reading body language to not know there is something not right. The fire and fun factor look lacking this season. Him sulking quietly at the end of the bench by himself is not a good look. 

Its this fanbase, they are really going to melt down when he doesn't  live here after retirement.  He can love the Bills, love the fanbase and NOT want to live there when he is done. This is part of the fantasy they make up in their heads, along with the fact they can't grip the concept that he is human and he has changed this offseason. I am with you, some have to be living under rocks not to see it.  

People change and so does their goals and more important their priorities as life goes on.  I guess we will see, but with how he looks right now, I can't see him going past next year tops.

[JMM]

14 minutes ago, tigerthelion said:

That's the problem , really.  Who is going to figure out the reasons?  Maybe Josh Allen needs a bit of guidance.  Who will give him that?  

VERY  big question.  Daboll used to be that guy. Not afraid to get in his face. I don't believe Brady or McDermott will do that.  

[<bills4life>]

3 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Its this fanbase, they are really going to melt down when he doesn't  live here after retirement.  He can love the Bills, love the fanbase and NOT want to live there when he is done. This is part of the fantasy they make up in their heads, along with the fact they can't grip the concept that he is human and he has changed this offseason. I am with you, some have to be living under rocks not to see it.  

People change and so does their goals and more important their priorities as life goes on.  I guess we will see, but with how he looks right now, I can't see him going past next year tops.

Throw in the fact he is married to a Hollywood star, and living in California.  Attitudes can change real quick. Even in some of his press conferences, I get this zen vibe from him.  At some point, he will need to put his foot down. And I don’t mean screaming at people. I mean leading fearlessly regardless of what others think. 

[Sierra Foothills]

30 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I live in Cincinnati, how is my speculation on Burrow "ridiculous".  The Bengals have taken the exact opposite approach to the Bills in how they structured their roster around their elite QB.  Are you denying this?  And IMO if Burrow had Allen's track record of staying healthy they would have at least one SB win to go along with the 2021 appearance they already have. I don't see how this is even debatable.

 

As for Darnold it would be only natural that QB's who are friends check out what what each of their teams is doing for their offenses.  Are you seriously telling me that Allen didn't notice that the Seahawks signed a WR that many were speculating the Bills would sign?

 

You wrote: I suspect the lack of any move to upgrade Allen's weapons at the trade deadline hit him hard. 

 

And then: I bet Burrow is having a blast out there and he probably thinks that if the Bengal's got a great RB to go along with their awesome WR's they would become the greatest show on turf and start winning those shootouts.

 

You're a good poster but sometimes you imagine things in your head without any proof and then present your opinions with certainty.

 

It doesn't get any more speculative than that.

 

[Chaos]

I think everyone is over complicating this.  Its pretty simple.

1. Josh Allen is not as effective this season as in recent seasons. This is not open for debate.
2. Why Allen is not as effective this season is open for debate. The following is my opinion
   1. McDermott is a system coach and wants players that conform to the system.  The alternative is  an adaptive coach who modifies his systems to optimize the talents of the players. Both types can succeed.  I do prefer the second type. I believe Bellichek and Reid both are/were both more of the adaptive types. 
   2. Allen, like most high end athletes perform best when in the proper rythym.  In football one of the primary goals of the defense is to get the QB out of their natural rythm. In games where Tom Brady struggled, it was almost always because the defense got him out of his rythym. 
   3. This season the Bills offensive scheme takes Allen out of his rythym, which saves the defense the trouble.  
3. Every year with the Bills it seems like there is a new grand experiment from the coaches.  This year's experiment is: can we change Josh Allen's natural rythym to conform to something that is not natural to him, and get equal production.  So far the experiment is failing. 
4. The problems with the WR corp are real, but they are secondary to to the problems this experiment is creating. 
    

The solution from my perspective is that In the first or second series of each game, the defense needs to be reminded that Josh is a running threat on passing downs, when Mr. Cook is having his well deserved third down rests. This will put Josh back in his natural rythym, and it will make the defenses account for that the rest of the game.  This one change would have a profound impact. 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Chaos

[Buffalo716]

10 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Its this fanbase, they are really going to melt down when he doesn't  live here after retirement.  He can love the Bills, love the fanbase and NOT want to live there when he is done. This is part of the fantasy they make up in their heads, along with the fact they can't grip the concept that he is human and he has changed this offseason. I am with you, some have to be living under rocks not to see it.  

People change and so does their goals and more important their priorities as life goes on.  I guess we will see, but with how he looks right now, I can't see him going past next year tops.

 

Tons of quarterbacks have those looks Patrick mahomes has had that face for years 

 

Something tells me and this is not the homer in me

 

 That Josh Allen is not going to pass up millions and millions and millions and millions of dollars.. for a game that has been his passion his whole life 

 

This is called a rough patch 

 

He literally is the NFL iron Man .. football means a lot to himself still 

Edited 1 hour ago by Buffalo716

[Sierra Foothills]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

This all day. In some of these looks I'm seeing where fans say that a guy is wide open, I see 1 and even 2 defenders with leverage waiting to pounce and break on the ball. NFL secondary players are fast. 

 

But again Dave, Jim Kubiak was a star quarterback in high school and in college where he was a 3 year starter. He set 22 school records at the Naval Academy. He played in the NFL for the Panthers, Colts and the Jets. He played in NFL Europe. He's coached college and in the Arena League. He runs a QB academy.

 

He has a lot of credibility even when he's critiquing Josh.

 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

3 hours ago, 26TrapDraw said:

You’re not wrong.

I think Kubriak knows more about football than you do and he literally says that Josh’s head is somewhere else. That’s one football saavy guys way of saying Josh needs to focus on football. He obviously is not here right now

Unless you’re implying Hailee is a

football, or that Kubiak lives with them, I’m really not following…

Edited 1 hour ago by JohnBonhamRocks