Bills Utter Collapse-- Jim Kubiak BN

[oldmanfan]

I presume Kubiak knows a lot more than I do, but seeing his comments as well as others in the thread I’d say the answer is all of the above.  I’d make these points:

 

1.  Our O line stunk, and even those with a modicum of understanding of the nuances of football could see that.  Terrible run blocking and we cannot adjust the blitzes a lot of times (might also be on Josh).

 

2.  WRs.  Our WRs do struggle to get separation, and we really miss Palmer in that regard.  Plus when Josh was rushed they did a terrible job adjusting routes or working their way to an open spot on the field.  It is not the group per se; the only major difference from last year is Hollins and that can’t be why this group is so non-effective.

 

3.  Josh.  It seems to me he is hesitant at the line and not sure what he sees in the defense.  As a result he is hesitant about where to go with the ball, and as such is not seeing guys that are more open where he can make easy completions.  I don’t place any stock in the marriage affecting him stuff, but he does look like he is getting confused and frustrated out there, which leads his to try and play hero ball too much such as with the sneak and fumble that essentially ended the game.

 

4.  Brady.  This to me is the biggest problem last week, and in the other losses.  He does not adapt well at all within games and he gets away too quickly from stuff that works.  I keep talking about two things from last year:  the 4+1 alignment and using Ty Johnson as a receiver.  Both highly successful last year, neither used much this year.  When we pulled that dumb 4th down play I knew it would be a long day.

 

Just an overall horse hockey performance by everyone associated with the offensive side on the football.

[Casey D]

1 minute ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Not sure what you're saying but I think we're agreeing. 

 

Allen has had games where he's played better than this Sunday and yet we've seen the same sputtering offense even when winning.

 

 

OK..  When Josh is playing in-system, the passing game can be a solid B.  When he does not, it is a D.  No A grade because of limitations in the receiving corps, but when it is at below B, some of the fault lies with Josh.  And it seems the further below a B it is, the more it is Josh not playing up to his standards, not because the receivers just suck.  Agree?

[NoSaint]

11 minutes ago, WNYFAN1 said:

Add to this list he played like crap. Dude shouldn't be immune from criticism. Glad to see Kubiak call him out when it's warranted. 

of course. 
 

Jordan missed plenty of shots, and Brady lost a bunch of games. 
 

these are human beings. 
 

I think it’s totally fine to call plays they miss.

 

though my expectations aren’t perfection and I don’t think he is the primary overarching issue with this season unless we are accepting that the only plan was the we have super man and he can just turn it on and off at will.

2 minutes ago, Casey D said:

OK..  When Josh is playing in-system, the passing game can be a solid B.  When he does not, it is a D.  No A grade because of limitations in the receiving corps, but when it is at below B, some of the fault lies with Josh.  And it seems the further below a B it is, the more it is Josh not playing up to his standards, not because the receivers just suck.  Agree?

why can’t the receivers also play towards their floor and not their ceiling? 
 

especially missing Palmer/kincaid 

[T.E.]

9 minutes ago, Shortchaz said:

Would be hilarious if he needed glasses. (Not II but..) 

Maybe McDermott can hook him up with his new optometrist.

[Mango]

48 minutes ago, Casey D said:

https://buffalonews.com/sports/professional/nfl/bills/article_21980ceb-bcfc-4e60-a920-42fc17996fcc.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=email&utm_campaign=user-share

 

Scathing analysis-- "While this game was difficult to watch, I hadn't anticipated the depth of trouble."

 

I cannot do the analysis justice because there is so much, but I will highlight:

 

Brady Game Plan-- Seemed to want to prove the Bills could throw the ball around the field instead of sticking to what worked against KC-- use Cook.  But overall, there were lots of plays that could have been made, but Allen inexplicably did not execute.

 

Allen-- "Allen's performance was below anything I've graded in his career."  It was mind boggling.  Terrible reads, passing over open receivers he was looking at, and simply not staying in-system.  On the end zone pic, the play call was perfect against Cover 0, he had three good options but took none of the, and on option 4 he threw a terrible pass to Shavers.  Josh's mind was clearly elsewhere on Sunday.

 

O-Line-- Terrible lack of effort and execution.  McGovern simply whiffed on blocks, and Dawkins  looked like he could give a s$$t on some plays.  No wonder Cook had some trouble running.

 

Offensive miscues crush D late-- After Allen's fumble which basically ended the game.  The D then collapsed.  Not an excuse, simply a fact according to Kubiak.

 

Kubiak's conclusion is better than anything I can paraphrase:

 

"[All-22] reveals more examples of poor execution and effort from Bills offense. There was a lack of desire and ferocity, a lack of mental focus, and a lack of guardrails to keep Allen within the contours of his responsibility on each play."

 

Read it and weep.  Behind BN paywall.

 

This isn't a Miami week specific issue. He isn't just not throwing to the open guy, he is looking at guys who are open and just not throwing them the ball. His whole feel for the game is like half a beat off. I have seen him with 15+ yards of green grass in front of him only to chuck some last minute heave into double coverage that inevitibly falls incomplete instead of scampering out of bounds for 6 yards and leaving us with 3rd and 4 instead of 3rd and 10. 

It just has the feel of the 2018 season without the electricity.  The comment about "mind somewhere else" seems to maybe fit. Fixable but concerning. I do think that he is slow to process compared to his QB 1a peers (ie Mahomes, Brady, Manning). His physicality and physiology bail him out. When he is sharp he is unstopabble, but we he is not it isn't pretty. 

Anyways, it is clear this team would be lucky to even have two wins right now if it weren't for Allen. But better QB play would also have us undefeated. 

[zow2]

I'll double down and continue to say Josh is not a great pocket passer and the organization is trying to make him that.  He's not Flacco or Brady back there.  His magic is stepping up in the pocket, moving around, waiting for guys to break open and hitting them or taking off and running, burning the opponent that way.

[mannc]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I presume Kubiak knows a lot more than I do, but seeing his comments as well as others in the thread I’d say the answer is all of the above.  I’d make these points:

 

1.  Our O line stunk, and even those with a modicum of understanding of the nuances of football could see that.  Terrible run blocking and we cannot adjust the blitzes a lot of times (might also be on Josh).

 

2.  WRs.  Our WRs do struggle to get separation, and we really miss Palmer in that regard.  Plus when Josh was rushed they did a terrible job adjusting routes or working their way to an open spot on the field.  It is not the group per se; the only major difference from last year is Hollins and that can’t be why this group is so non-effective.

 

3.  Josh.  It seems to me he is hesitant at the line and not sure what he sees in the defense.  As a result he is hesitant about where to go with the ball, and as such is not seeing guys that are more open where he can make easy completions.  I don’t place any stock in the marriage affecting him stuff, but he does look like he is getting confused and frustrated out there, which leads his to try and play hero ball too much such as with the sneak and fumble that essentially ended the game.

 

4.  Brady.  This to me is the biggest problem last week, and in the other losses.  He does not adapt well at all within games and he gets away too quickly from stuff that works.  I keep talking about two things from last year:  the 4+1 alignment and using Ty Johnson as a receiver.  Both highly successful last year, neither used much this year.  When we pulled that dumb 4th down play I knew it would be a long day.

 

Just an overall horse hockey performance by everyone associated with the offensive side on the football.

My memory may be a little off, but this seems like a carbon copy of the situation two years ago that got Dorsey fired: A seriously flawed offensive system gets figured out by the rest of the league and runs into a wall.  If we see something similar vs Tampa, I don’t expect Brady to survive it.

[ScotSHO]

2 minutes ago, Mango said:

I do think that he is slow to process compared to his QB 1a peers (ie Mahomes, Brady, Manning). His physicality and physiology bail him out. When he is sharp he is unstopabble, but we he is not it isn't pretty. 

 

I agree with this point, it's always been a complaint of many people when doing an all-22 analysis.  I think it's been magnified over the past year & a half due to Josh's evolution to eliminate INTs and avoid risk more often.  

[Livinginthepast]

22 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

I love this!  And yeah... I think so

Im only half joking!

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

6 minutes ago, T.E. said:

Maybe McDermott can hook him up with his new optometrist.

Then the lenses are bound to be pink...🤨

[BuffaloBillyG]

20 minutes ago, PonyBoy said:

 

"I don't think he's had this little talent around him since Wyoming."

 

Hey now! 

That's a cheap shot to the Wyoming football team! 😀

My apologies to Tanner Gentry.

[Gunsgoodtime]

31 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

My 2 cents is there is a contingent that believes Josh just needs to play better. I think they will be sorely disappointed to find out that problems are not always that simple. It also removes accountability from others who impact the passing game both directly and indirectly.

The look on Josh Allens face after he drops back to pass and nobody is open a majority of the time says it all to me.  It's like he knows and has all but gave up because he don't have the players needed to win consistently 

[Mango]

1 minute ago, zow2 said:

I'll double down and continue to say Josh is not a great pocket passer and the organization is trying to make him that.  He's not Flacco or Brady back there.  His magic is stepping up in the pocket, moving around, waiting for guys to break open and hitting them or taking off and running, burning the opponent that way.

 

I agree with you, but there isn't a lot of longevity for guys who aren't great pocket passers. At some point the velocity will dip, the legs won't take you as far, etc. and you need to be a great pocket passer to be a productive NFL starter well into your 30's. 

I was a proponent of the franchise pushing him in that direction so that we could enjoy a productive 36 year old Josh Allen on the Buffalo Bills. The inverse to me was sort of what we are seeing with Dart or Cam Newton. But as he approaches 30 I think you just have to let the guy play his game, and if the wheels fall off at 33 then they fall off. 

 

That said, whenever I have a spicy take guys generally seem to immediately do the opposite (see Dane Jackson circa 2023). I also thought the Sabres were really on to something when the missed the playoffs by a point. 

[BucketList]

50 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I think his struggle this year is about 3 things 

 

1. He doesn't have targets that get open. I saw on another thread he actually has the longest "time before he throws" in his career. That's gotta be frustrating to have your internal clock winding down and no on to throw to time and time again. I don't think he's had this little talent around him since Wyoming.

 

2. This is resulting in him seeing more pressure and far more hits in the pocket than he's had before. Those hits add up and force him to leave a clean pocket because, again he know he's held the ball too long because no one is open.

 

3. He's lost faith in something. Be it the skill level of the players around him or maybe Joe Brady and his offense. Maybe it's the things he's asked to do are things you ask a normal QB like Mac Jones to do and he's bored. But he, at least to my eyes, doesn't seem as invested with what is happening on the field as he was. 

 

Then, you can add in some outside things. Getting married is a huge life change. Realizing you're more than "just a ball player" and thinking, hey, Super Bowl or not...life goes on. Forces someone to look ahead a bit. 

I would add another part to number 3. He’s referenced “trusting his feet” on a few occasions at pressers.  He’s referring to his mechanics. Maybe he’s struggling with that part of his game.  Ever since reporting to the Bills, his mechanics have been an ongoing project.  It’s probably an exhausting experience mentally.  I can relate to that issue with my golf swing.  Maybe he’s struggling and needs a sports psychologist, although I’m thinking that may already be in place.  I hope he finds what ever it is. 

[Nihilarian]

Sometimes good teams look at bad teams (2-7) Dolphins and think they are so bad that all we gotta do is show up and they will go into a fetal position. This is the NFL and even the bad teams have a shot at times. Not to mention that this was a division game and Buffalo has beaten them like a redheaded stepchild over the last few seasons.

 

To Miami, this was their super bowl and big time revenge. The Dolphins wanted this more than life itself and some of the Bills players didn't put out the effort to win. Plus, they might have been looking past them at the Bucs. the Dolphins HC went trolling to a Bills bar after the game to rub it in. This game meant so much to them. 

 

We will see this week if that game was an anomaly or what the future holds. We Bills fans can only hope for the former! 

[ProcessTruster]

1 hour ago, Casey D said:

 

Oh please stop with all this "the sky is falling" stuff.   g-d.   Every so called better team has 2-3 sh-tty losses as well, and I'm sure the week after those losses  "the sky was falling" as well.   geez.   

[BuffaloBillyG]

6 minutes ago, BucketList said:

I would add another part to number 3. He’s referenced “trusting his feet” on a few occasions at pressers.  He’s referring to his mechanics. Maybe he’s struggling with that part of his game.  Ever since reporting to the Bills, his mechanics have been an ongoing project.  It’s probably an exhausting experience mentally.  I can relate to that issue with my golf swing.  Maybe he’s struggling and needs a sports psychologist, although I’m thinking that may already be in place.  I hope he finds what ever it is. 

Agree. 

 

I'm going to put this as delicately as I can here to try and avoid backlash. Allen has always been at his best when he's taken extra time in the off-season to work on his mechanics. I think that's not up for debate, either.

 

This last off-season, look at what his life was. Guy got married. Took some (much deserved) time away. We see he apparently made about 50 different commercials. He was busy on the media circuit as the newly announced MVP. Guy had a lot to do  

 

For all the great things Josh can do, slowing down time isn't one. There are only so many hours in a day and days in the week. 

 

He's correct his feet have been off all year. So has his arm. I cannot remember a season when I've seen him sidearm so many passes. I believe you are correct. His mechanics need another overhaul.

[zow2]

18 minutes ago, Mango said:

I agree with you, but there isn't a lot of longevity for guys who aren't great pocket passers. At some point the velocity will dip, the legs won't take you as far, etc. and you need to be a great pocket passer to be a productive NFL starter well into your 30's. 

I was a proponent of the franchise pushing him in that direction so that we could enjoy a productive 36 year old Josh Allen on the Buffalo Bills. The inverse to me was sort of what we are seeing with Dart or Cam Newton. But as he approaches 30 I think you just have to let the guy play his game, and if the wheels fall off at 33 then they fall off. 

 

That said, whenever I have a spicy take guys generally seem to immediately do the opposite (see Dane Jackson circa 2023). I also thought the Sabres were really on to something when the missed the playoffs by a point. 

 

I agree with you as well.  I'd like him to be a great pocket passer.  It would help longevity. He throws some nice ones here and there.  That late pass to Palmer in the Ravens comeback game might have been his best throw ever from the pocket.  But the overall accuracy and touch on the football is not all that great.  He has a howitzer, it's hard to dial it back.

[US Egg]

7 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

Oh please stop with all this "the sky is falling" stuff.

Same goes for the Dr. Phil marriage advisors in here.

Edited 1 hour ago by US Egg

[Blackbeard]

Not making excuses at all, but to me, it seemed like Allen was either heat exhausted, or sick with something.  He looked worn down.  

 

Any reports of him having a bug or something?