Coaches are heavily implying that Coleman isn’t trying on the field

[GoBills808]

25 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

If you have an agenda against bad takes, your agenda should preclude your from making this post.

 

Keon simply isn't going horizontal here, you can see that as the play continues, and that's factual, not opinion. His left foot is as far downfield as his right foot in this freeze-frame. Which does not happen if he were going sideways, it only happens if he is pointed at an angle downfield.

 

If Josh gets him the ball at that moment, Coleman catches it and has one or two steps before being tackled and falling forward.

 

Yes, he'll be hit quickly. But it's probably a five yard gain.

 

Early in the season when the offense was humming, Josh was taking those short gains and extending drives. Not so much now. And while that's certainly not the whole reason for it, it's legitimately a part of it.

 

again, if you don't want to take my word for it...maybe look at when we threw the exact same pass to Shakir. same drag, same spot...we don't even have to guess at the result. here

 

 

guess where he ended up? this time w only two defenders instead of three? and shakir who's much better w the ball in his hands? probably at least a five yard gain you say😂😂

 

oh wait tackled for no gain 

 

 

 

[GoBills808]

You guys can't be serious w these takes man😂😂 this is crazy

[Thurman#1]

36 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

again, if you don't want to take my word for it...maybe look at when we threw the exact same pass to Shakir. same drag, same spot...we don't even have to guess at the result. here

 

 

guess where he ended up? this time w only two defenders instead of three? and shakir who's much better w the ball in his hands? probably at least a five yard gain you say😂😂

 

oh wait tackled for no gain 

 

 

 

 

 

I see, so a different pass to a different guy on a different play says more about a play than just watching the actual play does?

 

Living in NeverNeverLand must be nice, dude.

 

You're right I don't have to take your word for it. I just look at the actual play. 

 

His feet, in your freeze-frame, are equally as far downfield. That does not happen when a guy is running sideways. When a guy is running sideways, if he's running left and his left foot lands on the 30, his right foot will land 8 - 12 inches downfield. If he's running directly cross the field the same thing will happen all the way across.

 

But that's not what's happening. He's running left and his left foot is just as far downfield as his right. That shows that he's running at an angle ... upfield.

 

Shakir's feet on the other hand are not both on the ground, but they indeed look as if when they both are, that bowlegged as he is he'll still have his right leg further downfield than his left.

 

Oh, and Shakir is being target a good eight yards further across the field. He is almost in front of the defender, who at that angle is a ton closer to Khalil than he is to Coleman on the other play. Khalil is on the left hash, with the defender around two yards left of the hash.

 

On Coleman's play, though, Keon is a good two yards outside of the right hash, while the defender is on the left hash. The hashes are 18 and a half feet apart, and the defender is also five yards downfield. Keon is going to have a lot more time than Shakir got.

 

More, Shakir has been forced to flatten his route, he's got a Bills crosser a yard or two downfield of him. Coleman ... um ... does not.

 

Sorry, your idea that these two plays are comparable in this way is just dumb. 

Edited 8 hours ago by Thurman#1

[Buffalo716]

 

Remember we're supposed to be on the same team guys 

 

1 2 3 go bills

[Thurman#1]

25 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

You guys can't be serious w these takes man😂😂 this is crazy

 

 

Yes, yes you are.

 

16 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Remember we're supposed to be on the same team guys 

 

1 2 3 go bills

 

 

Heh heh. 😄 

 

I like the GIF.

 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by Thurman#1

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yes, yes you are.

 

 

 

Heh heh. 😄 

 

I like the GIF.

 

 

I'm obviously a dawg

Edited 8 hours ago by Buffalo716

[Thurman#1]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I'm obviously a dawg

 

 

That's a beautiful dalmatian there. Dawg on, brother!!

33 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

You guys can't be serious w these takes man😂😂 this is crazy

 

 

To repeat, since you already saw this before I edited it:

 

Oh, and Shakir is being target a good eight yards further across the field. He is almost in front of the defender, who at that angle is a ton closer to Khalil than he is to Coleman on the other play. Khalil is on the left hash, with the defender around two yards left of the hash.

 

On Coleman's play, though, Keon is a good two yards outside of the right hash, while the defender is on the left hash. The hashes are 18 and a half feet apart, and the defender is also five yards downfield. Keon is going to have a lot more time than Shakir got.

 

More, Shakir has been forced to flatten his route, he's got a Bills crosser a yard or two downfield of him. Coleman ... um ... does not.

 

Sorry, your idea that these two plays are comparable in this way is just ridiculous. 

 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by Thurman#1

[SectionC3]

5 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Well, if "it all" you mean that McDermott says that every player out there has moments like that, and that that does include Coleman, then yeah, that does indeed say it all.

 

To repeat McDermott's exact words .... "There are times just like any player or any performer where it is exactly where it needs to be, and there are times where when it's not, and then we have to address it."

 

So yeah, he does have moments like that. Like every player. Perfection is unattainable. The question is whether Keon is doing this at a higher than normal, concerning percentage of the time. He certainly has, as his benchings attest. But McDermott doesn't address whether that is still a problem.

 

I'm not saying it's not. I'm just saying we don't know, and certainly not from McDermott's words here.

 

 

Where does it say "every" in the quote you provided?  It doesn't.  It also doesn't say "no."  That's the point.  If it wasn't an issue, then the answer would have been "no."

[YoloinOhio]

The yellow parka is going to swim with the fishes ala elam’s notebook 

[SunDSolar]

4 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

You guys can't be serious w these takes man😂😂 this is crazy

 

Lol at comparing two plays that are no where near identical to prove a point

[finn]

2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

The yellow parka is going to swim with the fishes ala elam’s notebook 

Maybe. But I have a long-shot hypothesis that leads to a sunny conclusion, which is that McDermott is mishandling Coleman. Coleman has shown promise--look at the Baltimore game, for instance, and a few of the early games last season. He may not be a bust from a physical standpoint, like Boogie Basham, and he might not be an Elam-like bust either, a guy with talent who just doesn't get it. Rather, he might be sulking and McDermott is inadvertently making it worse by shaming him in front of his teammates and the world. In other words, he might be extremely immature (aka stupid), thinking, "I'll show them, I won't make this catch. THEN we'll see who's sorry, heh!"

 

In his defense, public humiliation is pretty damaging and can backfire spectacularly. I speak as a parent and teacher here. It's possible that Coleman can still be everything the Bills hoped for, someone who devoted his summer to getting into great shape and was ready to shine this year, only to run into a rough patch on the field maybe, then being embarrassed. He withdraws into a pout, McDermott doubles down, so does he, and we have the current state of affairs. If this is the case, we haven't seen the best of Coleman yet. He might be a dawg if properly motivated.

 

The bad news is that I don't see this turning around. It takes a lot to realize, as someone in charge of discipline, that you're going about it the wrong way and to change course, especially in such a public forum (in front of the whole team, I mean). Does McDermott have the combination of insightfulness and courage it takes? I'm dubious. But it's possible. 

[Julio Hopkins]

5 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Remember we're supposed to be on the same team guys 

 

1 2 3 go bills

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, finn said:

Maybe. But I have a long-shot hypothesis that leads to a sunny conclusion, which is that McDermott is mishandling Coleman. Coleman has shown promise--look at the Baltimore game, for instance, and a few of the early games last season. He may not be a bust from a physical standpoint, like Boogie Basham, and he might not be an Elam-like bust either, a guy with talent who just doesn't get it. Rather, he might be sulking and McDermott is inadvertently making it worse by shaming him in front of his teammates and the world. In other words, he might be extremely immature (aka stupid), thinking, "I'll show them, I won't make this catch. THEN we'll see who's sorry, heh!"

 

In his defense, public humiliation is pretty damaging and can backfire spectacularly. I speak as a parent and teacher here. It's possible that Coleman can still be everything the Bills hoped for, someone who devoted his summer to getting into great shape and was ready to shine this year, only to run into a rough patch on the field maybe, then being embarrassed. He withdraws into a pout, McDermott doubles down, so does he, and we have the current state of affairs. If this is the case, we haven't seen the best of Coleman yet. He might be a dawg if properly motivated.

 

The bad news is that I don't see this turning around. It takes a lot to realize, as someone in charge of discipline, that you're going about it the wrong way and to change course, especially in such a public forum (in front of the whole team, I mean). Does McDermott have the combination of insightfulness and courage it takes? I'm dubious. But it's possible. 

So your self admitted long shot hypothesis is "Blame McDermott". How refreshing. 

 

I have a hypothesis as well, one that I happen to thing is far more likely. You take a good kid, you put him in high school. He's physically dominant above his peers. Doesn't have to put in the work and can still shine due to physical gifts. Then put him in college. He's not as physically dominant, but enough where he can still get noticed. Keeps getting told how awesome he is and after a while he buys into it. Finally that kid gets drafted into the pros. His physical stature no longer can dominate. Oh, he's still a good kid and all, but he never learned the work ethic to succeed.

 

His coaches and even some of his teammates try and motivate him behind the scenes. However because they don't tell him he's amazing like he's been told his whole life, he can't handle the criticism. He stops caring. He stops working. He falls behind players like Shavers. Puts out terrible effort and is possibly late to meetings and distant when he is there. The coach even tries benching him as a lesson. Coleman withdraws further. He cares a lot less. He hasn't learned the tools over his lifetime to cope with needing to work to be the best. He has a very short NFL career and is just happy to have made it. 

[jcamm1966]

I would give up the farm for Carnell Tate , WR problem solver

[finn]

9 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

So your self admitted long shot hypothesis is "Blame McDermott". How refreshing. 

 

I have a hypothesis as well, one that I happen to thing is far more likely. You take a good kid, you put him in high school. He's physically dominant above his peers. Doesn't have to put in the work and can still shine due to physical gifts. Then put him in college. He's not as physically dominant, but enough where he can still get noticed. Keeps getting told how awesome he is and after a while he buys into it. Finally that kid gets drafted into the pros. His physical stature no longer can dominate. Oh, he's still a good kid and all, but he never learned the work ethic to succeed.

 

His coaches and even some of his teammates try and motivate him behind the scenes. However because they don't tell him he's amazing like he's been told his whole life, he can't handle the criticism. He stops caring. He stops working. He falls behind players like Shavers. Puts out terrible effort and is possibly late to meetings and distant when he is there. The coach even tries benching him as a lesson. Coleman withdraws further. He cares a lot less. He hasn't learned the tools over his lifetime to cope with needing to work to be the best. He has a very short NFL career and is just happy to have made it. 

Take away your snark and you're just repeating my take, that Coleman is an immature player who regressed when his coach benched him. Somehow you managed to be derivative and insulting at the same time, not easy to pull off. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

8 minutes ago, finn said:

Take away your snark and you're just repeating my take, that Coleman is an immature player who regressed when his coach benched him. Somehow you managed to be derivative and insulting at the same time, not easy to pull off. 

If your ready that with snark, there really was none intended. If you were insulted, that wasn't the goal.

 

However, somehow, you still managed to miss the point entirely. 

 

Three times in your hypothesis, you lay the blame at McDermott's feet. You paint Coleman as a victim. At least that's how it sounded to me. The whole trope of "Oh something bad is going on...pin it on McDermott... somehow" is so overdone. 

 

Yes, we agree, he's immature. But you profess he's basically a rebellious teenager pushing back against perceived bad handling. My slant is he's immature because he's never been in a place where he has to work and doesn't know or care enough to do it. The blame should start and end with Coleman IMO. 

[finn]

11 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

If your ready that with snark, there really was none intended. If you were insulted, that wasn't the goal.

 

However, somehow, you still managed to miss the point entirely. 

 

Three times in your hypothesis, you lay the blame at McDermott's feet. You paint Coleman as a victim. At least that's how it sounded to me. The whole trope of "Oh something bad is going on...pin it on McDermott... somehow" is so overdone. 

 

Yes, we agree, he's immature. But you profess he's basically a rebellious teenager pushing back against perceived bad handling. My slant is he's immature because he's never been in a place where he has to work and doesn't know or care enough to do it. The blame should start and end with Coleman IMO. 

It's easy to mishandle an immature player. McDermott has done what most coaches would do: bench the player to send a message. Only it's not working. I'm not blaming McDermott as much as pointing out that he might have to try something different. Maybe nothing will work and, as you're implying, Coleman has to figure it out himself.

 

But time is short. He might figure it out, and he might not. Hence my emphasis on McDermott's role. After all, isn't one of the key duties of a head coach to motivate his players? Coleman might be a hard case--the little prick in the back of the classroom--but the problem isn't unsolvable. The stakes are too high to NOT focus on what the coaches can do to salvage Coleman's career--and this season. 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

8 minutes ago, finn said:

It's easy to mishandle an immature player. McDermott has done what most coaches would do: bench the player to send a message. Only it's not working. I'm not blaming McDermott as much as pointing out that he might have to try something different. Maybe nothing will work and, as you're implying, Coleman has to figure it out himself.

 

But time is short. He might figure it out, and he might not. Hence my emphasis on McDermott's role. After all, isn't one of the key duties of a head coach to motivate his players? Coleman might be a hard case--the little prick in the back of the classroom--but the problem isn't unsolvable. The stakes are too high to NOT focus on what the coaches can do to salvage Coleman's career--and this season. 

 

 

I think its likely because plays are never designed to actually go to him.  He plays more snaps than kincaid and shakir, yet the entire passing offense has them as the primary reads on like every play.  I look at it as a "get into the war" type of thing - you can't find rhythm or confidence when your job is clear outs and blocking.  He probably wants to see the ball more - and that doesn't mean we should throw back shoulder throws on the sideline all game - it might be moving him across the formation from time to time.  Just my 2 cents.  

[ArdmoreRyno]

Keon is more worried about posting his stats on IG than actually producing. 

 

He does it after every game and it's freaking annoying. He makes an entire 'story' of his numbers. Like GREAT dude.. you scored. We lost by 17 and you put in a half-ass effort. 

[Billz4ever]

42 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

If your ready that with snark, there really was none intended. If you were insulted, that wasn't the goal.

 

However, somehow, you still managed to miss the point entirely. 

 

Three times in your hypothesis, you lay the blame at McDermott's feet. You paint Coleman as a victim. At least that's how it sounded to me. The whole trope of "Oh something bad is going on...pin it on McDermott... somehow" is so overdone. 

 

Yes, we agree, he's immature. But you profess he's basically a rebellious teenager pushing back against perceived bad handling. My slant is he's immature because he's never been in a place where he has to work and doesn't know or care enough to do it. The blame should start and end with Coleman IMO. 

 

Keon is definitely to blame if he's not coachable.   I'm also going to point a finger at Beane, who drafted him when it was argued at the time he wasn't the right player the Bills needed, and also because they supposedly did their homework on this kid.

 

I will say that if somehow Keon is able to turn it around and become a nice chess piece in this offense, I will gladly eat a hefty plate of crow, but time is ticking and the NFL doesn't wait long for players to mature and figure things out.