Coaches are heavily implying that Coleman isn’t trying on the field

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

i have no agenda against keon, i have an agenda against bad takes

 

this is the exact moment allen turns down the throw to keon. yellow LOS is the 31, keon is standing at the 33. there is just no way this goes for anything other than a 2yard gain, im sorry

 

 

he threw the exact same ball on the exact same route to shakir in this game too, gain of about 1 and shakir got absolutely rocked

 

LOL - using a freeze frame now to frame a narrative.  So its seems the disconnect is that you don't actually understand what you are looking at then.  If you actually understood ball placement...this with this route, Keon's angle and where the defenders are, you would know that this ball is going to easily be caught at the 35.  Anywhere else would be poor ball placement by Allen and a QB mistake. 

 

 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah I don't know why we are calling this and other similar throws "turndowns." Allen is reading the leverage of defenders. There's a LB sitting directly over top with his hips leaning forward which means he is in position to drive on it, not to mention the other 2 sitting defenders you highlighted, so the best case scenario is a 3 yard gain, more likely 2/2.5. For reference as measured by success rate you would want to pick up 6 yards on 2nd and 10. I absolutely hate that this sort of play constitutes the vast majority of our passing offense right now. Defenses are forming a wall of coverage where they know we like to run our little crossers and nobody other than Kincaid has shown an aptitude for getting behind that wall consistently. Maybe Palmer can do it too, we'll see. Right now it's way way too easy for our opponents. They'll give us these looks all day until we force them out of it.

 

I'm legitimately shocked someone thinks this is going for anything other than a 2yard pickup 😂😂

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

If you actually understood ball placement...this with this route, Keon's angle and where the defenders are, you would know that this ball is going to easily be caught at the 35.  Anywhere else would be poor ball placement by Allen and a QB mistake. 

 

?

 

If the ball is thrown to the 35 it's a definite pass breakup. Coleman isn't even drifting that way, he's running straight horizontal. I'm not sure what you're seeing here Alpha.

 

Also I don't agree that those two throws are "standard NFL throws." The 1st one is one that can be completed by most NFL QBs but it is very low percentage because of how tight the CB is to Coleman. The 2nd one I genuinely don't think any normal QB is throwing that one to a spot 35 air yards downfield just out of reach of the flat defender and right where Coleman can make the catch. This is not a "hit your back foot and throw a rainbow" vertical shot. It's late in the progression and Allen has to rifle it to a spot way downfield to a jogging WR.

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

Biased dialogue is saying that fans on this message board know better than Brady how to scheme Coleman, a player he's worked with closely for 18 months.  

 

Biased dialogue is saying Josh Allen (he of the current NFL MVP status) must target Coleman more.

 

You do you dude.    

 

What is funny to me is you don't even realize you just shut down any criticism you have ever had of any player, coach, GM etc in the history of being on TSW - because how could you ever know better or know more than who you are criticizing - those are your literal words here.  And considering you are pretty much negative year round, that would make almost every post you have ever made irrelevant based on your own words here.  

 

So if someone criticizes Brady, Beane, McD, Allen, etc - how could they know better than them right...unless of course it fits your own opinion or bias, then it's spot on right?  lmao

 

But hey, thanks for making it clear that you think the coaches, Beane, Allen, etc are flawless and that you will never criticize any of them ever again, because how could you ever know better than them right.  I mean that is the literal meaning of what you just wrote.

Edited 8 hours ago by Alphadawg7

[CincyBillsFan]

4 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

The numbers aren't bad. The testimony of many credible evaluators is that he's not playing to his own standards and that's my belief too. He played well against KC and then reverted to bad habits against Miami. He's been very inconsistent this year.

 

The numbers are a lot better then "not bad".  And given the WR talent on the field I think Allen is playing to the standard he has established over the last 5 seasons (2020 - 2024).  I would agree that this is not his best season nor is he playing at an MVP level but his projected numbers for 2025 easily put him in the top 10 or even top 5 QB's out there.

 

And while I consider Allen a top 3 NFL QB, in practical terms that means some tines he's the #1 QB in a season and other times he's #5.  It's the expected natural variation in performance over time.

 

 

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

20 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

?

 

If the ball is thrown to the 35 it's a definite pass breakup. Coleman isn't even drifting that way, he's running straight horizontal. I'm not sure what you're seeing here Alpha.

 

Also I don't agree that those two throws are "standard NFL throws." The 1st one is one that can be completed by most NFL QBs but it is very low percentage because of how tight the CB is to Coleman. The 2nd one I genuinely don't think any normal QB is throwing that one to a spot 35 air yards downfield just out of reach of the flat defender and right where Coleman can make the catch. This is not a "hit your back foot and throw a rainbow" vertical shot. It's late in the progression and Allen has to rifle it to a spot way downfield to a jogging WR.

 

Im not sure what you are looking at, he is clearly running at an angle on this route.  Its an inside slant, look at where he makes the cut (31) and look at where he is running to, the 34-35.  This is not a crosser, he is not running parallel to the LOS, and the QB is supposed to lead the WR upfield on this throw.  

 

And even if he got less than 5-6 yards, there is no argument that makes throwing the ball away leaving 3rd and 10 is the better choice over taking 2-4 yards and giving yourself a more manageable 3rd down anyway.  But either way, that would have been a 5-6 yard gain regardless.

 

And I respectfully disagree, those are standard throws any franchise QB is expected to make.  If those throws are "miraculous" then you aren't a franchise QB and you aren't worth a quarter of a billion dollars.

Edited 8 hours ago by Alphadawg7

[finn]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

What is funny to me is you don't even realize you just shut down any criticism you have ever had of any player, coach, GM etc in the history of being on TSW - because how could you ever know better or know more than who you are criticizing - those are your literal words here.  And considering you are pretty much negative year round, that would make almost every post you have ever made irrelevant based on your own words here.  

 

So if someone criticizes Brady, Beane, McD, Allen, etc - how could they know better than them right...unless of course it fits your own opinion or bias, then it's spot on right?  lmao

 

But hey, thanks for making it clear that you think the coaches, Beane, Allen, etc are flawless and that you will never criticize any of them ever again, because how could you ever know better than them right.  I mean that is the literal meaning of what you just wrote.

Agree. This kind of response--"Your view isn't legitimate because you're not a GM or NFL scout"--is not worth the pixels that spell it out. 

[CincyBillsFan]

4 hours ago, Mango said:

 

I mean Beane says that Allen sends him loads of mock drafts in the off-season, pays attention to the senior bowl, etc.

 

Allen confirmed all that.

 

He also said Josh sat down and went through WR film with all the coaches, and then called Beane the morning of the draft to talk WR.

 

So either Beane is making up it all up and Allen is nodding his head, or the truth lies somewhere well above "company man" and well below "Josh Allen held a gun to Brandon Beanes head before making the selection".

 

 

And Bean thought it was funny.  Again I agree that Allen has input but that input comes AFTER Bean/McD and the scouts have narrowed down the guys they think will be available in the pick window the Bills have decided on using.  At that point sure, Allen may watch some film and offer his opinion but I continue to find it very implausible that his input changed who Bean/Scouts wanted to draft.  Just my opinion.

 

 

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

LOL - using a freeze frame now to frame a narrative.  So its seems the disconnect is that you don't actually understand what you are looking at then.  If you actually understood ball placement...this with this route, Keon's angle and where the defenders are, you would know that this ball is going to easily be caught at the 35.  Anywhere else would be poor ball placement by Allen and a QB mistake. 

 

 

I don’t care where Allen put that ball. Coleman would have gotten rocked on that play. You have a lot of good takes on this board but you are flat out wrong on this play. 

[BVBILLS]

Does this offense even practice? 

[Disgusted ills fan]

Josh wanted this draft pick .

 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

I don’t care where Allen put that ball. Coleman would have gotten rocked on that play. You have a lot of good takes on this board but you are flat out wrong on this play. 

All good, we don’t have to agree on everything obviously.  But if he’s getting rocked that doesn’t mean he didn’t catch the pass.  And no disrespect, but he would have gotten tackled not rocked IMHO.  Positive yards is better than no yards.  And it’s one of several plays Allen missed on, not just this one in a game where he was again off target, had poor mechanics, and poor pocket presence issues throughout.  

[without a drought]

If a wr can't succeed in a Joe Brady offense, then...

 

 

 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by without a drought

[TFBillsfan]

On 11/10/2025 at 5:03 PM, zow2 said:

 

He could have stayed at the spot and picked Worthy, or selected Ladd with that first pick in round 2.  But he took the worst of the three.  Great job Beane.

And compounded it by wasting the 3rd pick on Carter. That’s two huge reaches/misses  on Carter and Landon Jackson in the 3rd. 

[Joe Ferguson]

On 11/10/2025 at 1:57 PM, Governor said:

Why is he still on the field then?

You don't want to embarrass Beane and McD on their top pick do you?

Edited 4 hours ago by Joe Ferguson

[Herc11]

On 11/10/2025 at 2:45 PM, Billz4ever said:

 

Hey McD and Brady...if that's the case, WHY does he have the second most targets on this team??!!! WHYYYYY????!!!  Sit his butt down.

 I feel like they are giving him every opportunity to turn his ***** around. If it doesn't happen, dude will be gone in the off season.

[Thurman#1]

17 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

What McDermott didn't say was "no."  Which, in turn, says it all. 

 

 

Well, if "it all" you mean that McDermott says that every player out there has moments like that, and that that does include Coleman, then yeah, that does indeed say it all.

 

To repeat McDermott's exact words .... "There are times just like any player or any performer where it is exactly where it needs to be, and there are times where when it's not, and then we have to address it."

 

So yeah, he does have moments like that. Like every player. Perfection is unattainable. The question is whether Keon is doing this at a higher than normal, concerning percentage of the time. He certainly has, as his benchings attest. But McDermott doesn't address whether that is still a problem.

 

I'm not saying it's not. I'm just saying we don't know, and certainly not from McDermott's words here.

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Thurman#1

[Herc11]

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1479642013325576?s=yWDuG2&fs=e&mibextid=Nif5oz

[Thurman#1]

8 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I think that's over selling it a bit. There's two throws which I think you are referring to, one along the left sideline where Allen threw it outside when it appeared that it should have been placed inside, and one along the right sideline that was underthrown (although Coleman could have still caught it off the tip). Here they are in order:

 

 

The first one of those is a low percentage play from any QB especially since the defender was practically riding Coleman's back downfield. Would have had to be an absolutely perfect throw 45 air yards downfield. Nice release from Coleman but he stumbles out of it and doesn't have vertical speed so there is no clean separation. You'd like to see better separation to make it an easier throw or maybe he draws DPI when the CB catches up.

 

The second one, I don't think that throw is even on the menu for most QBs. Looks like basic tampa 2. The throw ends up almost like hitting a honey hole shot except 35 air yards downfield which is obviously not typical. Because Coleman is jogging on his route Allen has to rip it in there to beat the buzzing flat defender which means he can't get air underneath it which makes it more challenging to have perfect ball placement. So yes Allen has the arm strength to theoretically hit this throw but that isn't a point in Coleman's favor. And it's not like he did anything special to separate here, he's just running (or, more aptly, jogging) behind the flat defender in tampa 2.

 

If Allen had hit both of these miraculous throws that would have been more akin to Gabe Davis' "breakout performance" against KC than a legit star turn from Coleman IMO. Especially given how poor he looked on almost every other rep throughout the game.

 

 

 

Neither of those throws would have had to be "miraculous". Good, accurate throws? Yeah. Which is what you expect from elite NFL QBs.

 

In the first, Keon has stacked the guy. Not completely, but effectively, and he's blocked the DB from the whole inside of the field. That's what you want the WR to do. QBs are expected to make throws when the WR stacks the DB, and particularly when you can lead him inside and away from the DB. If Josh throws that not outside, and not straight downfield, but instead over close to the numbers, it's not that difficult a throw, and it's a high percentage chance at a completion.

 

The second was a harder throw, requiring about two to eight feet more distance and even better if he'd put it about a yard or two further outside. Yes, this did require a very good throw. Far from "miraculous," though. Josh makes throws that accurate all the time.

 

Josh and Kincaid for whatever reason just seemed out of phase last year. This year they're reading each others' minds. This seems like a bit of the same problem with Coleman this year.

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

7 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

i have no agenda against keon, i have an agenda against bad takes

 

this is the exact moment allen turns down the throw to keon. yellow LOS is the 31, keon is standing at the 33. there is just no way this goes for anything other than a 2yard gain, im sorry

 

 

he threw the exact same ball on the exact same route to shakir in this game too, gain of about 1 and shakir got absolutely rocked

 

 

If you have an agenda against bad takes, your agenda should preclude your from making this post.

 

Keon simply isn't going horizontal here, you can see that as the play continues, and that's factual, not opinion. His left foot is as far downfield as his right foot in this freeze-frame. Which does not happen if he were going sideways, it only happens if he is pointed at an angle downfield.

 

If Josh gets him the ball at that moment, Coleman catches it and has one or two steps before being tackled and falling forward.

 

Yes, he'll be hit quickly. But it's probably a five yard gain.

 

Early in the season when the offense was humming, Josh was taking those short gains and extending drives. Not so much now. And while that's certainly not the whole reason for it, it's legitimately a part of it.

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Thurman#1