Hate to say this … but the Pats are effing good

[Kelly to Allen]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

Keep believing that all the way to a Bills wild card appearance this season and no home playoff games. 

 

It's literally true lol.

 

It's why McDaniels was fired and Denver was forced to basically run a triple option offense. 

 

If you don't believe me go look it up

[dave mcbride]

Just now, RoyBatty is alive said:

I dont think the poster understands McDaniels as a HC (all excuses aside)  versus McDaniels as a OC.  If you want to talk about him as a  HC, yes he was a joke but as OC, genius.

Yes. Exactly. The two positions are not the same. Steve Spagnuolo was a total failure as a head coach (he had a bad team, but whatever), but are we to declare him a joke because of that?

[AlBUNDY4TDS]

1 hour ago, Kelly to Allen said:

McDaniels is a joke imo. Brady is the reason for his resume. His career outside Brady is kind of silly honestly 

 

Vrabel is a good leader, but he's also a meathead 

 

As for the pats beating the bills.

 

I think buffalo and Baltimore are going to eviscerate the pats in Dec and the pats will fall back 

 

Buffalo beat themselves vs the pats earlier in the year....

 

If maye is legit, I think the pats will be a more serious contender next year. 

 

 

McDaniels is doing really well in New England and he's not going anywhere.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Kelly to Allen said:

 

It's literally true lol.

 

It's why McDaniels was fired and Denver was forced to basically run a triple option offense. 

 

If you don't believe me go look it up

Again, this has literally nothing to do with his talent as a playcaller. Literally nothing. 

[Kelly to Allen]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

That has literally nothing to do with offensive playcalling. Keep believing that all the way to a Bills wild card appearance this season and no home playoff games. 

 

Of course it does. If Josh McDaniels thinks Tebow is not just a viable quarterback but a viable quarterback that's worth trading draft picks for in the first round then that tells me everything I need to know. 

 

Obviously I'm being a little bit funny and he's a decent offensive mind but I stand by my statement that he's a joke. 

 

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

Again, this has literally nothing to do with his talent as a playcaller. Literally nothing. 

We'll see what happens in December and January and how good of a play caller he is... I think it's going to be ugly honestly 

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Kelly to Allen

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Kelly to Allen said:

 

Of course it does. If Josh McDaniels thinks Tebow is not just a viable quarterback but a viable quarterback that's worth trading draft picks for in the first round then that tells me everything I need to know. 

 

Obviously I'm being a little bit funny and he's a decent offensive mind but I stand by my statement that he's a joke. 

 

Your last sentence is a contradiction in terms.

[Kelly to Allen]

4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Your last sentence is a contradiction in terms.

 

It's not mutually exclusive...

 

5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Yes. Exactly. The two positions are not the same. Steve Spagnuolo was a total failure as a head coach (he had a bad team, but whatever), but are we to declare him a joke because of that?

 

 

McDaniel's is not a joke simply because he failed as a head coach.... there are numerous other reasons why he's a joke that go beyond just Tim Tebow 

 

We all know what they are. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Kelly to Allen

[mannc]

6 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

I dont think the poster understands McDaniels as a HC (all excuses aside)  versus McDaniels as a OC.  If you want to talk about him as a  HC, yes he was a joke but as OC, genius.

Spagnolo was also a terrible head coach…absolutely meaningless when discussing his ability as a coordinator.

[Kelly to Allen]

5 minutes ago, mannc said:

Spagnolo was also a terrible head coach…absolutely meaningless when discussing his ability as a coordinator.

 

Josh McDaniels was the offensive coordinator under spags in 2011 with a second year Sam Bradford and was 32nd scoring with the rams. Bradford started 10 games... 

 

He was then the offensive coordinator for the raiders in 2022 with Derek Carr and 12th and scoring...

 

In 2009 with Kyle Orton he was 20th in scoring 

 

I'm going to look up Saint Doug and see what he did in 2014 with Kyle Orton and compare it...

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Kelly to Allen

[Jrb1979]

1 minute ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

Josh McDaniels was the offensive coordinator under spags in 2011 with a second year Sam Bradford and was 32nd scoring with the rams. Bradford started 10 games... 

 

He was then the offensive coordinator for the raiders in 2022 with Derek Carr and 12th and scoring...

 

 

I would take McDaniels over Brady any day. Brady's offensive scheme is awful. 

[Kelly to Allen]

Yup in 2014 with st Doug and Kyle Orton the bills offense was 18th in points scored 

 

And this is with ej Manuel starting 4 games.

 

Obviously there's a few more nuances because the 2014 bills defense was really good so the offense got more chances but still the point stands 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

I would take McDaniels over Brady any day. Brady's offensive scheme is awful. 

I have philosophical problems with Joe Brady and what's best for Allen but I think he's a much brighter offensive mind than Josh McDaniels.  

 

 

 

Alan also needs to be consistently disciplined like he was versus Kansas City. 

 

 

 

They come from different coaching trees from my understanding. 

 

 

 

McDaniels is Erhardt - Perkins and Brady is more

West Coast 

 

[Fleezoid]

3 hours ago, Success said:

I agree w/ those who say that the record they have is impressive and that they're obviously a good team.

 

But I also agree w/ those who say it's a product of the easy schedule. If they had a "normal" schedule, they'd have at least 3-4 losses right now, and the story would be more about how they've turned it around and seem to be climbing back in contention - as opposed to "the dynasty is back!  Another 20 years....deal w/ it, league!"

 

Maye looks great, but so have a lot of other guys. Honestly, the best thing that could happen in the division is McDaniel becoming HC of the Giants next year.  Watching that offense, he has set the table for Maye to succeed and look amazing.  They'd still have Vrabel - who I see as more of a "culture" kind of coach than a great football mind.  

 

I'm along these lines too. If the Jets had a remotely decent passing game/QB, they could have very possibly beaten the Pats. Their scoring drives were long, and each ate a good amount of time. The first one ate a ton of time. Just not enough offensive gas.

 

We'll see how the rest of the season goes. But for me, it's up to the Bills. If they can't get their crap together, it doesn't matter if the Patriots are simply just a good team. It'll be enough to take out a struggling Bills team. 

[Billsfanatic8989]

Daniels has already taken his team to the conference title game. And even he has struggled this year. Stroud looks much different than the successful rookie we saw. 

 

Too early to say either way on Maye. And frankly, Vrabel is a good HC. Not a great one (IE Reid, McVay, Shanahan). 

1 minute ago, Fleezoid said:

 

I'm along these lines too. If the Jets had a remotely decent passing game/QB, they could have very possibly beaten the Pats. Their scoring drives were long, and each ate a good amount of time. The first one ate a ton of time. Just not enough offensive gas.

 

We'll see how the rest of the season goes. But for me, it's up to the Bills. If they can't get their crap together, it doesn't matter if the Patriots are simply just a good team. It'll be enough to take out a struggling Bills team. 

My hope is a close division race helps the Bills win a SB. Sometimes, alot of tough competition helps. 

[50yrpatsfan]

2 hours ago, Success said:

 

Nothing he said was wrong.  He said Vrabel was a good coach, and I agree he's a great leader & culture guy. He's not the football mind that a guy like Belichick was, though.  I think he had his flaws in TN, and his most successful years there were also a product of having great coordinators.

 

McDaniels is more responsible for the success right now, imo.  The offensive schemes are really helping Maye succeed.  I would love, love, love to see a team  like the Giants hire him as HC.

 

And DC's are likely to adjust better to Maye as time goes on. As that poster said, history has more examples of QB's that looked poised to climb to the top regress, because eventually some of their tendencies were exposed and defenses adjusted.  

 

I'm impressed w/ what the Pats have done this year, but it wouldn't shock me a bit if they have a worse record next year.   The hype they're getting right now is largely due to the easy schedule.

 

Still, there are plenty of posts on this board - a Bills board - praising the Patriots and dooming about the future of the Bills, if that's what you're looking for.

 

Not looking for anything, and not predicting anything about the Bills who are still a dangerous team. But you can't let that poster's dumb comments to stand unchallenged. He's in the minority here and everywhere, on just about every point he made. Nobody has a crystal ball, but NE's game at Baltimore and the rematch with Buffalo will say a lot. But just last week they beat a comparable Tampa team away, so I'd expect them to compete well in those 2 games.

[Paup 1995MVP]

2 hours ago, Kelly to Allen said:

I agree 💯. 

 

They need to put Bernard on ir to heal up. He's clearly hurt and looks nothing like the playmaking lb he was last year or 23

 

 

When Thompson and Williams played versus Carolina they were extremely physical versus run....

I agree that Thompson and Williams should both be starting at this point if healthy.  I think they are our best LB's.  Very disappointing about Bernard.  He had a monster 2023 season.  And I thought he was going to be a star.  But it has been downhill ever since with him.  He needs to be a bit heavier to withstand the rigors of an NFL season.  Remember when a small LB weighed 235?  And most were well into the 240's.

[Success]

56 minutes ago, 50yrpatsfan said:

Not looking for anything, and not predicting anything about the Bills who are still a dangerous team. But you can't let that poster's dumb comments to stand unchallenged. He's in the minority here and everywhere, on just about every point he made. Nobody has a crystal ball, but NE's game at Baltimore and the rematch with Buffalo will say a lot. But just last week they beat a comparable Tampa team away, so I'd expect them to compete well in those 2 games.

 

I don't think they were "dumb."

 

They're just a counter to the current narrative, and I see the current narrative as being fairly circumstantial.   As I've stated a few times - if the Pats had an average schedule this year, they'd probably have at least 4 losses, and most would be talking more about how they're climbing into contention than the "Pats are back!  A new dynasty!" chatter that most nationally are preaching.

 

2 things can be true on this one:  the Pats are greatly improved and show a lot of PROMISE, and they are also being wildly overhyped and anointed way too early.

 

To me, they have proven very little so far.  They could just as easily end up .500 next year as they could challenge for the division.

 

[Sojourner]

13 minutes ago, Success said:

 

I don't think they were "dumb."

 

They're just a counter to the current narrative, and I see the current narrative as being fairly circumstantial.   As I've stated a few times - if the Pats had an average schedule this year, they'd probably have at least 4 losses, and most would be talking more about how they're climbing into contention than the "Pats are back!  A new dynasty!" chatter that most nationally are preaching.

 

2 things can be true on this one:  the Pats are greatly improved and show a lot of PROMISE, and they are also being wildly overhyped and anointed way too early.

 

To me, they have proven very little so far.  They could just as easily end up .500 next year as they could challenge for the division.

 

I just watched Cam’s take on ESPN this morning about the Patriots being “fool’s gold”. His words. 
 

Like you said, two things can be true. And probably are. This turn around is in its infancy so I don’t think it’s overly hyped given they are the most successful franchise since the turn of this century. It is however an anointment too early like you said… the heads are saying they are THE team in the AFC. Bit premature there. 
 

He alluded to the Colts being more of a sure thing than the Pats. Don’t see that either. If you’re going to question Drake Maye and his ability to perform in the playoffs when it matters, I think you easily have to apply that to the Colts and Jones. That team has a lethal ground game. Pats do not, outside the Bucs game they’ve been a very average to poor team running the ball. 

Edited 18 minutes ago by Sojourner

[Jrb1979]

9 minutes ago, Success said:

 

I don't think they were "dumb."

 

They're just a counter to the current narrative, and I see the current narrative as being fairly circumstantial.   As I've stated a few times - if the Pats had an average schedule this year, they'd probably have at least 4 losses, and most would be talking more about how they're climbing into contention than the "Pats are back!  A new dynasty!" chatter that most nationally are preaching.

 

2 things can be true on this one:  the Pats are greatly improved and show a lot of PROMISE, and they are also being wildly overhyped and anointed way too early.

 

To me, they have proven very little so far.  They could just as easily end up .500 next year as they could challenge for the division.

 

You can say the same thing about the Bills. IMO these last 5 games is what they are. Teams have figured out how to stop their offense. Even though they beat KC, their defense kept them to a measly 7 points in the second half.

 

Unless the Bills go all in on offense next season and get some elite WRs, this team isn't going to be much better.