Is anyone else worried about our D

[OBXBILLSFAN]

A slow, aging, declining Pat Williams was not exactly the key to our defense. We will be much better with the agile and athletic Ron Edwards, backed up by the intense, high effort Tim Anderson.

 

In addition, Kelsay and McGee are developing, Vincent and Milloy will have a full year together at safety, and backups like Baker and Greer will have a year under their belts.

 

In other words, Pat who?

[40+ Year Bills Fan]

Not really. Xcellent people behind him.

[plenzmd1]

I am not so worried about the yards they give up,think they will be pretty equal, but think they will be hard pressed to equal the turnover numbers from last year.

[ganesh]

I don't think Pat Williams could anyways handle if Sam was out of the lineup.

He needed Sam as much to make plays. While I will miss him, he has spent

10 years with the bills and it is time to move on and give our younger players

a chance.

[ganesh]

I'm too worried about the O-Line right now to worry about the D-Line.

OOhhhh!!!

 

374369[/snapback]

Agreed...The O-Line is a much bigger Unknown than the D-line...the

two guys Anderson and Edwards know the system and have been in

it (edwards for the last 4 years and Anderson last year)....The question

in front of them is, do they have the mental capacity to learn and play

the game....and only way to find that out is by Putting them on the field.

 

However with the O-line, we have two new starters on the left side and

they have to be in sync with the rest of the line....while the two guys on

the left might be capable of doing it, they need time to adjust to the

tendenacies of the rest of the line....

[Cobra]

We've got some quick linebackers and obviously one of the best secondary in the league, but with Williams gone, I'm worried about our defence against the run.  I say we're one Sam Adams injury away from a disaster against the run.  I don't have time to look up the exact stats but I believe that was the worst part of our defence last year and now we've lost a key guy that will probably show a bigger impact then everyone thinks.  Hope I'm wrong.

374359[/snapback]

 

Don't Worry, Be Happy!

[John from Riverside]

What really bothered me last year is that Pat Williams wasn't the best DT on our team in a CONTRACT YEAR.....

 

I loved the younger Big Pat...the guy would could penetrate the backfield and made big plays.....but I havn't seen that Pat for about 2 years......and you would expect to see him when he is showcasing talent to the league for big money.........

 

I gotta say...I am excited to see with Tim Anderson can do......

[ganesh]

I loved the younger Big Pat...the guy would could penetrate the backfield and made big plays.....but I havn't seen that Pat for about 2 years......and you would expect to see him when he is showcasing talent to the league for big money.........

 

374895[/snapback]

 

And that too with Big Sam playing alongside him. Pat was a good player, but

could never handle things alone. He has spent 10 seasons and it is time to

move on to fresh young talent and let them play.

[1billsfan]

Nope.

[AKC]

with Williams gone, I'm worried about our defence against the run. 

374359[/snapback]

 

Like you, I believe we have FAR more to fear in relation to the quality of our DLine against the run than we do about any other area of our team. For Christ's sake- at least on the OLine we have a rotation of guys who have actually played at this level!

 

Here's a string expanding on those concerns:

 

DLine Woes

[HurlyBurly51]

Nope.

374943[/snapback]

 

I am, and it will be one of the top two things that bear watching this summer (LT being #1). I relate it to what happened to Urlacher here in Chicago. When Ted was around the guy was an all pro, as soon as he leaves all off a sudden he's heavily criticized and labeled by some as overrated.

 

I think if London has a big OL in his grill all game then we're going to be very frustrated watching teams break into the secondary consistently, which also takes us out of favorable down and distance situations, leading to less turnovers. Sam and Pat were proven at protecting the LBs from the bigguns, allowing them to freely roam the field to pursue and make plays.

 

We're a very situational team, where Sam and Pat were to stop them on first and second, and put the opposition at higher risk in 3rd and passing situations. That won't happen if they're pounding it at will on you. Not saying it will happen, but it is a concern until proven otherwise.

[ganesh]

That won't happen if they're pounding it at will on you.  Not saying it will happen, but it is a concern until proven otherwise.

374969[/snapback]

 

Every unknown is a concern going into training camp. Hopefully, training camp

and pre-season flushes out these issues and the best players come out good.

[1billsfan]

I am, and it will be one of the top two things that bear watching this summer (LT being #1).  I relate it to what happened to Urlacher here in Chicago.  When Ted was around the guy was an all pro, as soon as he leaves all off a sudden he's heavily criticized and labeled by some as overrated. 

 

I think if London has a big OL in his grill all game then we're going to be very frustrated watching teams break into the secondary consistently, which also takes us out of favorable down and distance situations, leading to less turnovers.  Sam and Pat were proven at protecting the LBs from the bigguns, allowing them to freely roam the field to pursue and make plays. 

 

We're a very situational team, where Sam and Pat were to stop them on first and second, and put the opposition at higher risk in 3rd and passing situations.  That won't happen if they're pounding it at will on you.  Not saying it will happen, but it is a concern until proven otherwise.

374969[/snapback]

 

I thought Edwards passed Williams in big play making ability last season. Pat was like a 400 pound pet rock, he's hard to move and that's about it. But Edwards actually has the ability to penetrate as a pass rusher. I'm glad Williams is gone because I want to see Brady on his @ss this season.

 

As for LT being the number one priority. If Drew were still here then I would agree. Seeing how Losman's big thing is the ability to run then I'm not as worried about the LT spot.

[AKC]

We're a very situational team, where Sam and Pat were to stop them on first and second, and put the opposition at higher risk in 3rd and passing situations.  That won't happen if they're pounding it at will on you.  Not saying it will happen, but it is a concern until proven otherwise.

374969[/snapback]

 

Even if Anderson evolves as a good run stopper, we will have merely a "starting rotation" of three interior linemen- one a superior interior player who can excel against the run and pass, a one-dimensional pass rusher and one making his plays on first and second down. This is basically a "bare cupboard" DLine rotation in today's NFL and any peek at our schedule should be a warning to our management to bring in competent help on the interior DLine before the 5th week of the coming season. If it doesn't happen you won't have to worry about London Fletcher getting knocked around the field all season by OLinemen- he'll be an injury casualty before we reach week 17 due to his big heart/play through anything style.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Even if Anderson evolves as a good run stopper, we will have merely a "starting rotation" of three interior linemen- one a superior interior player who can excel against the run and pass, a one-dimensional pass rusher and one making his plays on first and second down. This is basically a "bare cupboard" DLine rotation in today's NFL and any peek at our schedule should be a warning to our management to bring in competent help on the interior DLine before the 5th week of the coming season. If it doesn't happen you won't have to worry about London Fletcher getting knocked around the field all season by OLinemen- he'll be an injury casualty before we reach week 17 due to his big heart/play through anything style.

374993[/snapback]

 

I think we relied heavily on a rotation of DL players last year because that us the way the run-blitz as employed by the Bills wotked. Wiliiams lined up for less than 60% of the D snaps last year because we rotated Phat Pat and Adams as the starting DTs, brought in Edwards on definite passing downs, sometimes moved Denny to DT (causing the benched Adams to complain) and initially Bannan but phased him into the G position as his play there improved our redzone production and Anderson indicated he deserved some playing time.

 

The rotation which you describe as bare cupboards will essentially be the same as the one which helped create a good D last year but will employ Edwards and Anderson for the less than 2/3 of D snaps where PW used to play.

 

If Edwards or Anderson are simply credible as run-stoppers the rotation and play will be about the same.

 

As far as Fletcher playing with OL guys in his grill that was basically what we had in 2001 and 2002 (with Phat Pat here) once Big Ted left and before Adams got here so he can handle it. The key is that the 2001 and 02 teams were ineffective cause they relied on talents like Sean Moran (great back-up but not a starter) and Chidi Ahanatou as starters.

 

The current Bills D which sports Kelsay rather than Ahanatou, Edwards/Anderson rather than Moran, and Spikes rather than Robinson is so much better than the 01/02 models there is no comparison, There may be a drop-off dfrom PW to RE, but it is minor compared to the improvements over the old model where fkletcher had to wade through things on his own for the most part.

[Bill from NYC]

He played very well on the Rams. What great DTs did he have over there to protect him?

I just don't see the problem.

[HurlyBurly51]

He played very well on the Rams. What great DTs did he have over there to protect him?

I just don't see the problem. 

375015[/snapback]

 

I don't recall the exact years, but I do remember one year Fletcher was being ridden out of plays and making tackles 6 or 7 or more yards down the field, then for the next season when Sam came in London was able to pursue more freely and make plays much closer to the line of scrimmage. His tackle numbers may have been similar, but there was a distinct difference in where he was making them.

 

Just as for any LB, the DT's need to keep the OL off them and they will make the plays to stop the run. Otherwise you might be in on the plays, but you're not really stopping the run when you're tackling 6 yards downfield.

 

I was just answering the guys question - with Sam and Pat there was not a problem, now with Pat gone and a lesser run stopping replacement, that could spell trouble.

[AKC]

He played very well on the Rams. What great DTs did he have over there to protect him?

I just don't see the problem. 

375015[/snapback]

 

He had a lot less wear and tear on his body back then, plus he's now in his 30s. Unlike a lot of other 'backers in the league who would take less risk if the line underperforms and a game has gotten away from the D, London will continue to play full out even if Edwards proves to be the run sieve I see when he's in on rushing downs. This will expose London to a higher risk of injury than some slacker who gives up.

 

To answer your question about who he played behind in St. Louis while London was winning his Super Bowl ring- the Rams used a rotation of Ray Agnew, DeMarco Farr and Jeff Zgonina. Being only the 3rd best lineman in that rotation, Zgonina is still a productive interior guy in Miami.

[Bill from NYC]

He had a lot less wear and tear on his body back then, plus he's now in his 30s. Unlike a lot of other 'backers in the league who would take less risk if the line underperforms and a game has gotten away from the D, London will continue to play full out even if Edwards proves to be the run sieve I see when he's in on rushing downs. This will expose London to a higher risk of injury than some slacker who gives up.

375049[/snapback]

 

Good point. I just want you to be wrong for once.

[Bill from NYC]

He had a lot less wear and tear on his body back then, plus he's now in his 30s. Unlike a lot of other 'backers in the league who would take less risk if the line underperforms and a game has gotten away from the D, London will continue to play full out even if Edwards proves to be the run sieve I see when he's in on rushing downs. This will expose London to a higher risk of injury than some slacker who gives up.

 

To answer your question about who he played behind in St. Louis while London was winning his Super Bowl ring- the Rams used a rotation of Ray Agnew, DeMarco Farr and Jeff Zgonina. Being only the 3rd best lineman in that rotation, Zgonina is still a productive interior guy in Miami.

375049[/snapback]

 

DeMarco Farr was light in his behind, no?