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Kansas City Royals, Chiefs concede loss in stadium sales tax vote


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Can someone explain to me in layman's terms why Kansas city was able to have a vote on the stadium funding but in buffalo (new york) it seems issues like this never come to a vote and instead our politicians? Decide amongst themselves? 

 

Imagine if erie county residents  had the option of voting the initial proposal down. Maybe the stadium winds up a dome, maybe it's in downtown instead of OP , or maybe it stays exactly where it is as designed but the pegulas are required to bring more money to the table.

 

This appears to be very smart of the residents to vote it down. The teams will ultimately submit an updated proposal probably with the owners contributing more $$

Edited by TrentEdwardsCheckDownOn4th
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59 minutes ago, TrentEdwardsCheckDownOn4th said:

Can someone explain to me in layman's terms why Kansas city was able to have a vote on the stadium funding but in buffalo (new york) it seems issues like this never come to a vote and instead our politicians? Decide amongst themselves? 

 

Imagine if erie county residents  had the option of voting the initial proposal down. Maybe the stadium winds up a dome, maybe it's in downtown instead of OP , or maybe it stays exactly where it is as designed but the pegulas are required to bring more money to the table.

 

This appears to be very smart of the residents to vote it down. The teams will ultimately submit an updated proposal probably with the owners contributing more $$

 

There's an in-depth answer on the particularly dysfunctional nature of the New York legislature. However, I find the more fun answer is the pushback to public voting after "Estée Lauder" wanted to be Mayor of NYC and spent millions on failed public referendum after failed public referendum  which spooked the legislature that they might have to one day get actual jobs and when they tried to say, "Would you like fries with that?" they screwed it up so they did all they could to ensure public referendums were difficult in New York.

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1 hour ago, TrentEdwardsCheckDownOn4th said:

Can someone explain to me in layman's terms why Kansas city was able to have a vote on the stadium funding but in buffalo (new york) it seems issues like this never come to a vote and instead our politicians? Decide amongst themselves? 

 

Imagine if erie county residents  had the option of voting the initial proposal down. Maybe the stadium winds up a dome, maybe it's in downtown instead of OP , or maybe it stays exactly where it is as designed but the pegulas are required to bring more money to the table.

 

This appears to be very smart of the residents to vote it down. The teams will ultimately submit an updated proposal probably with the owners contributing more $$


The Bills received state money that was already part of a budget. It was being spent somewhere regardless.

 

The KC vote was a county thing that isn’t already part of a budget.

 

The Bills would have ZERO chance of receiving a penny of state money if it went to a vote. Downstate interests would have a much better chance of passing in comparison.

Edited by Beast
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Is GEHA Field renovate-able, as opposed to building a new stadium?

 

Highmark can't be renovated to modern standards. Besides, the upper deck will collapse in a few years or so. So WNY had no choice but to build anew.

 

I wonder if the KC area has a choice. I would renovate over building new if possible.

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13 hours ago, scuba guy said:

Most people don't know that Kansas is only a 1/2 mile away. And that Cincinnatis airport is in Kentucky.

I lived in KC for five years, on the Missouri side, and would walk across State Line Road every day to my workplace in Kansas. . . . and have to file two state income tax forms every year. 

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6 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Lots of comments on here about just everything but the core issue. Isn’t it possible that given the current state of the economy/inflation people simply voted not to tax themselves right now?

Absolutely correct. Plus, I'm sure the veiled threat from the Chiefs President to relocate didn't motivate people to vote yes either. Nobody wants to be blackmailed, even if your team has won multiple Super Bowls. You need to draw the line somewhere.

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15 hours ago, beebe said:

 

I meant more or less the overall stadium experience. Highmark, the actual stadium itself, is a complete dump. But the fanbase and surroundings make it a unique place to visit and the gameday atmosphere (including pregame) is a top-10 gameday experience in the NFL. Allegiant Stadium and SoFi are obviously very nice. But Rams, Chargers and Raiders games are routinely overrun by visiting fans and the in-person atmosphere (I've been to both) is very lacking. Soldier Field is forgettable in ways that Lambeau is not. Lucas Oil is a nice stadium, but the gameday atmosphere is nothing compared to the old RCA Dome, which was a truly rocking stadium in the Manning years. 

 

So if I were to reframe my original post, I would say that the Oakland Coliseum with the black hole and detestable fans was a superior, more memorable experience than watching the Raiders in their brand new gold plated Casino stadium overrun by tourists, visiting fans and casino guests. I would say that Candlestick Park, with its history, location and bowl shape, is superior to Levi's Stadium, located in Santa Clara and widely considered the worst of the new stadiums not named MetLife. I would say that Arrowhead, one of the original NFL stadiums that has held up for 50-plus years and has arguably the best gameday environment in the NFL, ranks higher than, say, a trip to newer stadiums like Arizona or Atlanta. 

 

But obviously to each their own. There's no doubt people who prefer attending a game at SoFi than at Highmark, just like there's baseball fans who would rather visit new GlobeLife Field in Texas than Wrigley Field in Chicago. 

The best game day experience is going to almost any big time college football game around America.  The stadiums are nothing special.  But the atmosphere at the games is amazing.  Most sports are better watching on TV.  Except for hockey.  The TV time outs when you are sitting at a football game are beyond ridiculous.

 

You want a big time live event.  Go see a Metallica concert.  That is the big time *****!!

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....The vote was to extend the already in place 3/8 cent sales tax that runs through 2030.  Funds were to go to the Chiefs for renovatoins at Arrowhead...and to the Royals who were proposing a new downtown stadium.  This is a COUNTY tax.  The same country in which Kansas City Missouri, the actual city, is in.  So not only did KC city voters get to participate in this, so did residents of the other towns in Jackson County.

 

First...some clarification about Kansas City itself.  AS many of you point out and are aware, Kansas City, MO is where the actual downtown is at.  There is also a Kansas City, Kansas, on the other side of the Missouri/Kansas Border that is it's own city.  The actual residents inside of the Kansas City, city limits, like most major cities, the residents aren't rich, but are heavily taxed.  Within KC city limits itself, there was a pretty strong push for NO on this.  Certain, the NO vote people were well organized.  

 

Second.  As some here have noted, this whole thing was the Royals and Chiefs tied together.  The combined efforts of the two teams to put out any sort of plan or vision was AWFUL.  Especially on the Royals side, but let me talk about the Chiefs first.

 

The Chiefs wanted 800 million in public funds for renovations.  They put out some drawings of what they wanted to do...and it was UNDERWHELMING.  bigger video boards...(the ones they have are fine) complete the concorse all the way around the upperdeck.  something called an "activation zone" in the area where Royals staidum currently stands...looks like a big open field where you might also put a stage and host a few things maybe.  And the list gets more and more underwhelming as you go.  Certainly looks like very very little bang for the bucks, based on what was presented.

 

The Royals, couldn't decide which site they wanted, flip flopped on that a few times, couldn't come an agreement on community benefits with any of these neighborhood associations etc.  And couldn't seem to get numbers or plans or a message straight....up to and including completing a benefits agreement wiht one of these groups with just 2 hours left before the poles closed.  It was the most half assed, confused effort.

 

I believe the NO vote didn't win based on their whining and complaining about the tax that has already been in effect for decades.  They won because the teams weren't on point, couldn't present a cohesive plan and what they did produce, was underwhelming.

 

The teams message has been "we don't know what we'll do going forward, including moving."  ....which national media takes to mean...moving to a completely new locale...not KC metro.  The Chiefs aren't going anywhere.  They will get a separate deal with the county and do whatever upgrades at Arrowhead or failing that, KANSAS can and will roll out the read carpet for them.

 

The Royals path forward isn't as clear.  Both Arrowhead and Kaufman stadiums have held up extremely well over time.  Alot of people wonder outload why the Royals need a new stadium downtown (where GASPPP!!!! there isn't that much parking!!!)  Technically, they don't need a new stadium to actually play ball in and have parking and access.  The stadium remains a perfectly fine venue in that regard.  The owners want what they have in Colorado.  A downtown stadium, with alot of foot traffic around a bunch of bars and other entertainment, with access to the streetcar, etc.  They want something that generates more attendence in the park and more money outside the park.  The Rockies are terrible and still sell a ton of tickets and generate a ton of money outside the stadium.  The Royals will try again with hopefully a much better proposal and plan...but if they can't get something done in the next few years, I'd think they'd be ripe to leave for someplace that will build exactly that sort of revenu generating setup.  Nashville, Charlotte, Salt Lake....they'd make it happen if the Royals shake loose.

 

The Chiefs plans were so horribly mediocre that I can't help but wonder if they sabotaged their side of htis on purpose so they could have an excuse to negotiate and all new stadium with Kansas.   I'm not a conspiracy theory person, but their handling was THAT bad....that you have to consider it.  

 

Anyhow...the Chiefs aren't going anywhere.

 

Last point.  I think there were large numbers of people who aren't in the mood to give public funding to very rich owners to do this or that.  I think people are legitamately asking why billionaires can't foot more or all of the bill for enterprises that are enormousely profitable (the answer is ...BECAUSe THEY CAN) ...but the trend is people dont' have much appetite to support this stuff these days.

 

 

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On 4/2/2024 at 9:55 PM, Buffalo716 said:

Watch them leave 

 

Even if to the state of Kansas 

They ain’t moving to Kansas. 

On 4/3/2024 at 2:00 PM, Mr. WEO said:

Royals stink--who would lay out for that forlorn organization?  2 great years in the last 40. 

I wish the royals were moving to Las Vegas. The Las Vegas royals sound better 

16 hours ago, nucci said:

The Hunt family is worth $24B. They can build the new stadium.

The chiefs started as the Dallas Texans and the hunt family is from Dallas. The cotton bowl, where they first played as a franchise, is getting a huge makeover. They should move back to Dallas. Dallas can handle two teams (LA and NY have two). And it would piss off Jerry jones to have competition 😂

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