The Battle of a lifetime: Klein, Spector, Dodson, Bernard, Williams

[Success]

I remain convinced that no on on this board knows a fraction of what Beane knows, and what McDermott knows.

 

It's fine for all of us to speculate and question and doubt, but the words here just float off into nothing.  The Bills current brain trust ended an epic drought, and turned this team into a top contender, year after year and well into the foreseeable future.

 

They have earned the benefit of the doubt, imo. And I have no doubt whatsoever that they have a plan for the LB position.

 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

So less Taron johnson or less Daquan Jones?  Maybe both?  Doesn’t seem like a good trade off other than continuously keeping the opposition guessing and confused 

I think when we see 2 WRs you’ll see Taron come off the field. Williams can run with TEs and has the size. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

I picked Klein, but I feel Bernard is being slept on. It’s only his 2nd year. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

10 minutes ago, NewEra said:

 

Except I’m not miserable. I don’t complain about much actually. Im one of the more optimistic posters on the board, but I keep it real when I think they are making a mistake.  If the FO makes a move I find questionable, I look for reasoning.   If I don’t find the reasoning adequate, I post on message boards and see what others have to say.
 

In this case, both bernard and williams both project to the outside, not the middle.  They were drafted on day 2 in back to back years while our best defensive player also plays outside and our GM said the plan is to keep him there.  So by Beanes word, I do know how they plan to use him- which leaves a gaping hole at the Mike.  
 

based on taking Bernard and Williams in consecutive years rd 3- there is plenty of reason to question wth the plan is.   It’s what people do on message boards. Seems to me that we used 2 day 2 picks on non premium position back ups/ ST players.  I’m of the opinion that we invest too much into ST units as it is.  And here we go again. 
 

what do you think the plan is for Bernard and Williams?

 

So, you take Beane's word that Williams projects immediately to the outside...but don't believe him when he says Bernard is in the mix for the middle? GM has also said that they feel there is a replacement on the roster...but we won't believe that as well? Seems a bit of pick and choose to me.

 

As for what I think the plan is...I'm completely comfortable saying that I don't know. If Frazier was here still it may shed a bit more light based on past usage and alignment but McDermott being defacto DC at this point opens a ton of possibilities.  I saw some reports say that Williams may translate to a Big Nickel role in the NFL. I saw ideas floated that this pick allows more flexibility as far as playing some more 4-3 sets if needed. And yes, like MANY other guys in rounds 3-7 he will help on ST, back up role and learn his position. 

 

It never hurts to have guys that can grow into different spots.  But you also never can tell where a season will go. What if Taron Johnson goes down early in the season? Would be nice to have a piece like this on the team that has the speed to cover backs/slot WRs...but also a bit more size to cover a TE. The point is it's impossible to project his usage, career path or a complete picture of what they see him as based off a few comments from a presser last night. I am by no means pounding the table for him as a possible future All Pro, however I think the wise approach is to see how he does the first couple years.

 

Same with Bernard, BTW. Just from the sample size we saw last year people already want him cut, traded or drawn and quartered. But we really don't know what we have there quite yet. Let's give it a bit of a chance to fail before assuming it will. 

[Chandler#81]

12 hours ago, BillMafia716ix said:

Probably AJ Klein which is not a good situation. Very worried bout the defense. We didn’t address MLB, our pass rush and we don’t know when Von will be ready. 

Why? No team has a great Defense in this age. What we do have is 4 current or recent All Pros on D. It’s the very best any team can do today.

🤷‍♂️

[Kaenon]

We need Pat Queen.

[Mango]

I think…maybe?…we see some more traditional 4-3 looks instead of the 2LB sets we are used to. I think we may be forced to with Klein and Milano. 
 

Williams may start to basically split time with Taron. 

[NewEra]

34 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

So, you take Beane's word that Williams projects immediately to the outside...but don't believe him when he says Bernard is in the mix for the middle? GM has also said that they feel there is a replacement on the roster...but we won't believe that as well? Seems a bit of pick and choose to me.

 

As for what I think the plan is...I'm completely comfortable saying that I don't know. If Frazier was here still it may shed a bit more light based on past usage and alignment but McDermott being defacto DC at this point opens a ton of possibilities.  I saw some reports say that Williams may translate to a Big Nickel role in the NFL. I saw ideas floated that this pick allows more flexibility as far as playing some more 4-3 sets if needed. And yes, like MANY other guys in rounds 3-7 he will help on ST, back up role and learn his position. 

 

It never hurts to have guys that can grow into different spots.  But you also never can tell where a season will go. What if Taron Johnson goes down early in the season? Would be nice to have a piece like this on the team that has the speed to cover backs/slot WRs...but also a bit more size to cover a TE. The point is it's impossible to project his usage, career path or a complete picture of what they see him as based off a few comments from a presser last night. I am by no means pounding the table for him as a possible future All Pro, however I think the wise approach is to see how he does the first couple years.

 

Same with Bernard, BTW. Just from the sample size we saw last year people already want him cut, traded or drawn and quartered. But we really don't know what we have there quite yet. Let's give it a bit of a chance to fail before assuming it will. 

It’s the day 3 of the draft.  This is what we do on message boards. We discuss the draft picks. We share our opinions, projections, predictions and feelings.  
 

My initial reaction to this pick was: can he play Mike?  If he can, will he be good enough to start this season.  I watched and read a ton of scouting reports on him and every other off ball LB.   What I had gathered was that he’s best outside as he has no anchor to take on blocks, has serious issues shedding and most importantly- was on the slower side processing and had below average instincts reading the run AND in coverage.  It seemed to me, that all he had going for him was speed, length and tackling ability.  
 

I was hoping to draft a LB that had a chance to start over the LBs we had.  I don’t think that’s an option this year.

 

I’m rooting for all of these kids and for the coaching staff to put this puzzle together. I just don’t see how the prices fit together and they seem redundant-  especially for a day 2 pick at non premiums positions.  Think motor and moss.  Didn’t make sense then.  It proved to not make sense years later.  

[DCofNC]

12 hours ago, Luka said:

It's really just a competition between Klein, Spector and Dodson, which after last preseason I think Spector has a chance at winning. With McDermott calling the defense I wouldn't be surprised to see Williams or Bernard playing the "nickel" corner in run/pass situations. Hell, Williams has the size and speed to play safety. It's an interesting pick depending on how the coaching staff utilizes him.

McClappy threw Edmunds out there as a rookie, I don’t think it’s out of question he would if Williams shows he can make the calls/plays.  I would assume Milano will be the play called this year, but we’ll see.

[NewEra]

50 minutes ago, Success said:

I remain convinced that no on on this board knows a fraction of what Beane knows, and what McDermott knows.

 

It's fine for all of us to speculate and question and doubt, but the words here just float off into nothing.  The Bills current brain trust ended an epic drought, and turned this team into a top contender, year after year and well into the foreseeable future.

 

They have earned the benefit of the doubt, imo. And I have no doubt whatsoever that they have a plan for the LB position.

 

They’ve earned the benefit of the doubt…. But do you not have any opinion?  You just say “if they like it, it must be good”? 
 

I have no doubt they have a plan for the LB position as well.  You’re just more confident that it’s something specific.  It looks to me like they’re just throwing stuff against the wall with hopes that it sticks.  Power in numbers- with hope that one guy will step up and take it.  Draft guys that play STs and try to develop them.  
 

That said, I’m happy that they didn’t spend a 1st or 2nd on the position, especially in this draft.  I just don’t see the path to playing time for both Bernard and Williams- 

[BullBuchanan]

It's all just so terrible. There was a solution for this problem, but I guess they decided a 6th guard was more important.

Edited April 29, 2023 by BullBuchanan

[BuffaloBillyG]

5 minutes ago, NewEra said:

It’s the day 3 of the draft.  This is what we do on message boards. We discuss the draft picks. We share our opinions, projections, predictions and feelings.  
 

My initial reaction to this pick was: can he play Mike?  If he can, will he be good enough to start this season.  I watched and read a ton of scouting reports on him and every other off ball LB.   What I had gathered was that he’s best outside as he has no anchor to take on blocks, has serious issues shedding and most importantly- was on the slower side processing and had below average instincts reading the run AND in coverage.  It seemed to me, that all he had going for him was speed, length and tackling ability.  
 

I was hoping to draft a LB that had a chance to start over the LBs we had.  I don’t think that’s an option this year.

 

I’m rooting for all of these kids and for the coaching staff to put this puzzle together. I just don’t see how the prices fit together and they seem redundant-  especially for a day 2 pick at non premiums positions.  Think motor and moss.  Didn’t make sense then.  It proved to not make sense years later.  

To the bolded part: Fair enough. I get that completely. That's kind of where I was initially with the Kincaid pick. Like the player...question if they will put him in position to be worth such a high pick. Hopeful they do and willing to see what they have in store before squashing or praising. 

 

As for Williams himself, the impression I got about him was his instincts were a plus. I can totally see him having issues shedding blocks at the NFL level especially, so I share in that concern about him. 

 

The biggest red flag I have for him is based off something Beane did throw out there last night. Talking about Tulane having a much simpler defense and it would take time for Williams to pick up the depth of the Bills defense. It does lead me to believe we shouldn't expect much this year. And like you, I don't like that. We all want impact players. Guys that can step in right away. I do think Beane makes far to many "for the future" picks for my liking. However I'm willing to wait and see how the plan shapes up before dismissing it completely.  I do have some reservations...however it very well could turn into a nice pick. Too early to judge.

[BullBuchanan]

1 hour ago, Success said:

I remain convinced that no on on this board knows a fraction of what Beane knows, and what McDermott knows.

 

It's fine for all of us to speculate and question and doubt, but the words here just float off into nothing.  The Bills current brain trust ended an epic drought, and turned this team into a top contender, year after year and well into the foreseeable future.

 

They have earned the benefit of the doubt, imo. And I have no doubt whatsoever that they have a plan for the LB position.

 

The Cincinnati Bengals and Josh Allen did that. There aren't a lot of top 5 QBs that are in situations where they aren't "perennial contenders". Beane and McD have completely failed to build and utilize a roster that can get this team tot he next level, and I'm not sure that's debatable. What beneifit of the doubt have the earned exactly?

Beane makes trades for guys McD won't play. He drafts players McD won't play. He gives big contracts to guys that McD won't utilize. How do you excuse all of that? How many young up and coming stars do we have on this team?

[Success]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

They’ve earned the benefit of the doubt…. But do you not have any opinion?  You just say “if they like it, it must be good”? 
 

I have no doubt they have a plan for the LB position as well.  You’re just more confident that it’s something specific.  It looks to me like they’re just throwing stuff against the wall with hopes that it sticks.  Power in numbers- with hope that one guy will step up and take it.  Draft guys that play STs and try to develop them.  
 

That said, I’m happy that they didn’t spend a 1st or 2nd on the position, especially in this draft.  I just don’t see the path to playing time for both Bernard and Williams- 

 

To answer the bolded - yes.

 

Draft weekend is always fairly predictable around here.  I'm not saying this to disparage anyone - but I think most on here look at 6-7 mocks, watch some youtube, and think they know as much as professional scouts and staff who live and breathe this stuff every day, 365 days a year.  

 

For me to look at a pick Beane made and immediately draw some sort of negative conclusion would be the height of arrogance, and probably some ignorance too.  Ultimately, this player is a 3rd rounder, where there are certainly no guarantees and we see both busts and gems all over the place.  I have ZERO doubt Milano got some very similar comments as this guy when he was picked.  And I could go through a list of players where the board (in general) thought they knew better, including the now infamous "wrong Josh."

 

It's always been my attitude to just let it play out.  I have no idea who this guy is, and most who are commenting here either never heard of him outside of mocks and recent research, or maybe saw him play once or twice if they love the college game.

 

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

To the bolded part: Fair enough. I get that completely. That's kind of where I was initially with the Kincaid pick. Like the player...question if they will put him in position to be worth such a high pick. Hopeful they do and willing to see what they have in store before squashing or praising. 

 

As for Williams himself, the impression I got about him was his instincts were a plus. I can totally see him having issues shedding blocks at the NFL level especially, so I share in that concern about him. 

 

The biggest red flag I have for him is based off something Beane did throw out there last night. Talking about Tulane having a much simpler defense and it would take time for Williams to pick up the depth of the Bills defense. It does lead me to believe we shouldn't expect much this year. And like you, I don't like that. We all want impact players. Guys that can step in right away. I do think Beane makes far too many "for the future" picks for my liking. However I'm willing to wait and see how the plan shapes up before dismissing it completely.  I do have some reservations...however it very well could turn into a nice pick. Too early to judge.

👍🏻

 

Agreed with the bolded-  I’m ok with the “for the future picks” if they are a premium position.  I have major issues when they are drafting for the future at positions that they can fill with a 2-5M contract.  And in positions that they invested in the previous season.  It’s baffling and makes me think they are throwing things at the wall (while I’m sure there’s more to it).

 

regarding the underlined- I’m willing to wait and see how this works out, but this is a message board where we discuss our likes, dislikes and everything in between. 

[CapeBreton]

4 hours ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

I am on record as saying we put too many resources into the defensive front and was fine letting Edmunds go at the price he could command. We drafted 2 offensive players to help our franchise so KUDOS a shift to the offense. I don't mind creating competition and depth a la how KC does it on defense and letting the chips fall where they may. We could have drafted one of the higher regarded LBs with our first 2 picks, instead offense I'm good with it.

I like the competition they’ve created at LB too, guys are going to be hungry! 

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, Success said:

 

To answer the bolded - yes.

 

Draft weekend is always fairly predictable around here.  I'm not saying this to disparage anyone - but I think most on here look at 6-7 mocks, watch some youtube, and think they know as much as professional scouts and staff who live and breathe this stuff every day, 365 days a year.  

 

For me to look at a pick Beane made and immediately draw some sort of negative conclusion would be the height of arrogance, and probably some ignorance too.  Ultimately, this player is a 3rd rounder, where there are certainly no guarantees and we see both busts and gems all over the place.  I have ZERO doubt Milano got some very similar comments as this guy when he was picked.  And I could go through a list of players where the board (in general) thought they knew better, including the now infamous "wrong Josh."

 

It's always been my attitude to just let it play out.  I have no idea who this guy is, and most who are commenting here either never heard of him outside of mocks and recent research, or maybe saw him play once or twice if they love the college game.

 

Right- but I don’t look just look at 6-7 mocks and watch some YouTube.  
 

I don’t claim that my opinion is the gospel.  I claim that I have an opinion and will likely never say “well, these guys are the pro’s and know more than I, so it must be good”

 

you can let it play out while also discussing your initial reaction to it.  No? 

[Success]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

Right- but I don’t look just look at 6-7 mocks and watch some YouTube.  
 

I don’t claim that my opinion is the gospel.  I claim that I have an opinion and will likely never say “well, these guys are the pro’s and know more than I, so it must be good”

 

you can let it play out while also discussing your initial reaction to it.  No? 

 

Oh, for sure. And that's what the board is for.

 

But some reactions here are a bit too definitive, imo.  To automatically proclaim that this guy will never start, or that Bernard won't, and that both are completely wasted picks - stuff like that.  This regime is slow to get rookies involved (as we know), so even w/ Bernard we still don't have much idea of how the pick will pan out.  But he's already being talked about like a complete waste of a pick.

 

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, Success said:

 

Oh, for sure. And that's what the board is for.

 

But some reactions here are a bit too definitive, imo.  To automatically proclaim that this guy will never start, or that Bernard won't, and that both are completely wasted picks - stuff like that.  This regime is slow to get rookies involved (as we know), so even w/ Bernard we still don't have much idea of how the pick will pan out.  But he's already being talked about like a complete waste of a pick.

 

I hear ya.  
 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

52 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

The Cincinnati Bengals and Josh Allen did that. There aren't a lot of top 5 QBs that are in situations where they aren't "perennial contenders". Beane and McD have completely failed to build and utilize a roster that can get this team tot he next level, and I'm not sure that's debatable. What beneifit of the doubt have the earned exactly?

Beane makes trades for guys McD won't play. He drafts players McD won't play. He gives big contracts to guys that McD won't utilize. How do you excuse all of that? How many young up and coming stars do we have on this team?

I’d say that first point is at the minimum debatable… we had a potential shot at the 1 seed despite experiencing just about as much adversity as I’ve ever seen a team face. 
 

No von, down two run stuffing DTs there’s virtually no way to stop the bengals. 
 

and on the offensive side we were missing a big target chain mover/red zone threat which we have addressed and the offensive line was an absolute mess which has been addressed also.  If we get blown out in the second round of the playoffs again I’d start to get a little more in line with your way of thinking but I would not say they have ‘completely failed to build and utilize a roster that can get this team to the next level’ yet

 

The bengals are getting a lot of production out of rookie contracts because they bottomed out/lost their qb to injury and stacked their roster with offensive talent…there’s no way they can resign all those guys.  

Im not even sure the chiefs roster is stacked on paper they just have two guys on offense that are absolute freaks of nature and they nailed down the offensive line which hopefully we have done this offseason 

Edited April 29, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan