RD 3, Pick 91: LB Dorian Williams, Tulane

[BuffaloBillyG]

25 minutes ago, Blank Stare said:

Probably been said a million times in this thread, but Nick Bolton with the Chiefs is another good size comp. 6’0 237 and he does just fine. Also, he’s slower at 4.6 forty and shorter arms at 31 7/8 (and wingspan of 76 1/4) than DW. 
 

Admittedly, I knee-jerk hated this pick initially with the Bernard pick last year and the backup to Milano and special teams comments. But I’ve since calmed down and really like his potential with further context. Can’t dislike him just because of the Bernard pick last year. Have to evaluate him individually. I think he’ll get an opportunity to start at the Mike at some point if he can pick up the playbook. 

What is it you have "evaluated" about Bernard that you felt so strongly about? Do you really think you are able to get a proper evaluation on a player in what...3 preseason games and some spot duty through his rookie season? So many people on this board have already cast the kid aside and not one person here can fairly say what he will turn into...good or bad. 

 

[Shaw66]

33 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

What is it you have "evaluated" about Bernard that you felt so strongly about? Do you really think you are able to get a proper evaluation on a player in what...3 preseason games and some spot duty through his rookie season? So many people on this board have already cast the kid aside and not one person here can fairly say what he will turn into...

Excellent point.  I was disappointed he didn't do more with his opportunities last season, but it's premature to write him off.  But if Williams climbs over him for playing time in the defense this season, then we will know.  

[Mat68]

6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Excellent point.  I was disappointed he didn't do more with his opportunities last season, but it's premature to write him off.  But if Williams climbs over him for playing time in the defense this season, then we will know.  

The pre season will provide the answer.  Can the guy read, react and make a play.  They are on screen the whole time. Who stands out?  Whole game which guy pops.  That guy moves up or wins.  Dodson and Kline are the Mendosa line.  Hopefully, Bernard, Spector or Williams can clear it. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, Mat68 said:

The pre season will provide the answer.  Can the guy read, react and make a play.  They are on screen the whole time. Who stands out?  Whole game which guy pops.  That guy moves up or wins.  Dodson and Kline are the Mendosa line.  Hopefully, Bernard, Spector or Williams can clear it. 

Fair point to remember is....the guy that "pops out" on TV isn't necessarily the guy that coaching staffs may tag the winner. It's about who has command of their assignments. Who adds the most. Remember, coaches aren't fans and do not solely based their decision on box scores and who gets their name announced on the broadcast the most. 

 

However the preseason shakes out, I think the safest bet is that no matter how anyone looks... McDermott will most likely start Dodson for his experience to begin the season provided one of the young guys doesn't make it impossible to keep off the field.

[Blank Stare]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

What is it you have "evaluated" about Bernard that you felt so strongly about? Do you really think you are able to get a proper evaluation on a player in what...3 preseason games and some spot duty through his rookie season? So many people on this board have already cast the kid aside and not one person here can fairly say what he will turn into...good or bad. 

 

Boy you really read between the lines on my post and came up with a completely different interpretation than intended. Where did I say I’ve made any sort of final determination on Bernard? I haven’t, and I won’t judge him off one game where he looked a little lost. Of course players can improve. I’m saying in general that you can’t make a decision on one player based on another player drafted in the same round and at the same position. They are two different people. A lot of people have already tossed Bernard on the trash heap. He may be great, he may be terrible, (or somewhere in between) but that has nothing to do with DW. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by Blank Stare

[Richard Noggin]

5 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

What is it you have "evaluated" about Bernard that you felt so strongly about? Do you really think you are able to get a proper evaluation on a player in what...3 preseason games and some spot duty through his rookie season? So many people on this board have already cast the kid aside and not one person here can fairly say what he will turn into...good or bad. 

 

 

4 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Excellent point.  I was disappointed he didn't do more with his opportunities last season, but it's premature to write him off.  But if Williams climbs over him for playing time in the defense this season, then we will know.  

 

Where's the internet fun in sharing reasonable takes like this?! What do you mean I don't KNOW the future of two young prospects who I lump together because they were drafted in the same round and have similar weights (uNdErSiZeD!!!) that I don't realize are closer to the norm now than whatever 245+ pound Pro Bowl LB I'm thinking of from years ago?! 

 

Nerds.

[Beck Water]

3 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Fair point to remember is....the guy that "pops out" on TV isn't necessarily the guy that coaching staffs may tag the winner. It's about who has command of their assignments. Who adds the most. Remember, coaches aren't fans and do not solely based their decision on box scores and who gets their name announced on the broadcast the most. 

 

However the preseason shakes out, I think the safest bet is that no matter how anyone looks... McDermott will most likely start Dodson for his experience to begin the season provided one of the young guys doesn't make it impossible to keep off the field.

 

This is a really good point.

 

Back in 2012, the Bills drafted a LB named Tank Carder in the 5th round.  There was a fair amount of excitement about him because he was making plays in the preseason, breaking up passes and making some picks.  Chan Gailey was asked about him and said, somewhat laconically and sounding un-excited, that he "continued to stand out on film" or something like that.

 

The Bills released him at the cutdown to the 53 man roster, and a lot of fans were in disbelief - how could those stupid coaches cut a player who was all over the field making plays?  Elementary, my dear fans, it's because he wasn't where he was supposed to be, doing what he was supposed to be doing, and there were many offensive plays that were succeeding, under the radar to the fans, because he wasn't carrying out his actual assignment.

 

 

[Beck Water]

6 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

What is it you have "evaluated" about Bernard that you felt so strongly about? Do you really think you are able to get a proper evaluation on a player in what...3 preseason games and some spot duty through his rookie season? So many people on this board have already cast the kid aside and not one person here can fairly say what he will turn into...good or bad.

 

To be fair, Bernard was asked to start a game and play for Milano and he 1) really looked lost 2) when he got to the right place at the right time, he got trucked and dragged 5 yds downfield.  He looked slow and lacking in physicality.  So that's a bit more than "some spot duty".  Prior to that game, he'd seen a couple quarters of play.  After that, he saw a lot of ST snaps but nothing on D.

 

To be clear, I think the Bills concluded from that game that Bernard was "not ready for prime time".  Now none of the above means I personally believe the book on him is written, because players can improve a lot from their 1st to their 2nd year and if a player is still learning the defense and thinking instead of being able to read-and-react, it's gonna slow him down.

 

But there was a bit more of Bernard than "spot duty".

[BADOLBILZ]

37 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

This is a really good point.

 

Back in 2012, the Bills drafted a LB named Tank Carder in the 5th round.  There was a fair amount of excitement about him because he was making plays in the preseason, breaking up passes and making some picks.  Chan Gailey was asked about him and said, somewhat laconically and sounding un-excited, that he "continued to stand out on film" or something like that.

 

The Bills released him at the cutdown to the 53 man roster, and a lot of fans were in disbelief - how could those stupid coaches cut a player who was all over the field making plays?  Elementary, my dear fans, it's because he wasn't where he was supposed to be, doing what he was supposed to be doing, and there were many offensive plays that were succeeding, under the radar to the fans, because he wasn't carrying out his actual assignment.

 

 

 

 

Yep Chan Gailey had that thing where he would send messages to players thru the media by saying sh!t like that.   They knew what he meant even if the media could only speculate.  I think that pointless stuff really helped undermine the buy-in to his regime.  

 

Most notable example of that tactic was the......."Aaron Maybin works hard......nobody can say Aaron Maybin doesn't work hard.....he works hard.......did I mention he WORKS hard?" answers he'd give to people perplexed about his uselessness.   The subtext being that he didn't PLAY hard on the field.   Working out is strenuous "work"........but playing hard in the trenches is painful and injury is inevitable if you are selling out.   Maybin wasn't in for the latter.......he was just cashing checks and play acting on the field.   

[BuffaloBillyG]

14 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

To be fair, Bernard was asked to start a game and play for Milano and he 1) really looked lost 2) when he got to the right place at the right time, he got trucked and dragged 5 yds downfield.  He looked slow and lacking in physicality.  So that's a bit more than "some spot duty".  Prior to that game, he'd seen a couple quarters of play.  After that, he saw a lot of ST snaps but nothing on D.

 

To be clear, I think the Bills concluded from that game that Bernard was "not ready for prime time".  Now none of the above means I personally believe the book on him is written, because players can improve a lot from their 1st to their 2nd year and if a player is still learning the defense and thinking instead of being able to read-and-react, it's gonna slow him down.

 

But there was a bit more of Bernard than "spot duty".

So, a few quarters of play and 1 game (out of 18 played) aren't "spot duty"? We must have different definitions lol. 

 

To your point, I agree that the coaches were able to see that he wasn't ready for primetime last year. The said as much after drafting the kid as well. They knew he would need time. He's now had a full season, a complete off season where coach said he was in town learning the whole off-season (along with Spector) and will have a 2nd TC. Should be a better chance to see if he took steps forward IMO.

[Shaw66]

16 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

 

Where's the internet fun in sharing reasonable takes like this?! What do you mean I don't KNOW the future of two young prospects who I lump together because they were drafted in the same round and have similar weights (uNdErSiZeD!!!) that I don't realize are closer to the norm now than whatever 245+ pound Pro Bowl LB I'm thinking of from years ago?! 

 

Nerds.

Love this!  Thanks.

[Rico]

18 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

This is a really good point.

 

Back in 2012, the Bills drafted a LB named Tank Carder in the 5th round.  There was a fair amount of excitement about him because he was making plays in the preseason, breaking up passes and making some picks.  Chan Gailey was asked about him and said, somewhat laconically and sounding un-excited, that he "continued to stand out on film" or something like that.

 

The Bills released him at the cutdown to the 53 man roster, and a lot of fans were in disbelief - how could those stupid coaches cut a player who was all over the field making plays?  Elementary, my dear fans, it's because he wasn't where he was supposed to be, doing what he was supposed to be doing, and there were many offensive plays that were succeeding, under the radar to the fans, because he wasn't carrying out his actual assignment.

 

 

[Beck Water]

21 minutes ago, Rico said:

 

That's truly an impressive "receipt" file.  Well done!

[without a drought]

19 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

This is a really good point.

 

Back in 2012, the Bills drafted a LB named Tank Carder in the 5th round.  There was a fair amount of excitement about him because he was making plays in the preseason, breaking up passes and making some picks.  Chan Gailey was asked about him and said, somewhat laconically and sounding un-excited, that he "continued to stand out on film" or something like that.

 

The Bills released him at the cutdown to the 53 man roster, and a lot of fans were in disbelief - how could those stupid coaches cut a player who was all over the field making plays?  Elementary, my dear fans, it's because he wasn't where he was supposed to be, doing what he was supposed to be doing, and there were many offensive plays that were succeeding, under the radar to the fans, because he wasn't carrying out his actual assignment.

 

 

I thoughht people were just upset that they had a LB named Tank and they cut him.

[TBBills Fan]

47 minutes ago, Rico said:

 

I miss having Levitre and wood

[TheWeatherMan]

32 minutes ago, TBBills Fan said:

 

I miss having Levitre and wood

You forgot Wang 

[JaCrispy]

I got a good feeling about this guy 👍

[Buffalo Junction]

1 hour ago, TBBills Fan said:

 

I miss having Levitre and wood

Man….. if they’d have just grabbed Orakpo instead of Maybin that’d have been a damn good time draft; three probowlers and a starting guard from the first four picks. SMMFH. I would have lost a TV that day with the Maybin pick if we hadn’t started drinking when the brisket went on smoke. 

[boyst]

On 5/18/2023 at 11:36 PM, Beck Water said:

 

To be fair, Bernard was asked to start a game and play for Milano and he 1) really looked lost 2) when he got to the right place at the right time, he got trucked and dragged 5 yds downfield.  He looked slow and lacking in physicality.  So that's a bit more than "some spot duty".  Prior to that game, he'd seen a couple quarters of play.  After that, he saw a lot of ST snaps but nothing on D.

 

To be clear, I think the Bills concluded from that game that Bernard was "not ready for prime time".  Now none of the above means I personally believe the book on him is written, because players can improve a lot from their 1st to their 2nd year and if a player is still learning the defense and thinking instead of being able to read-and-react, it's gonna slow him down.

 

But there was a bit more of Bernard than "spot duty".

Was that the Detroit game or Cleveland game?

[RyanC883]

14 hours ago, without a drought said:

I thoughht people were just upset that they had a LB named Tank and they cut him.

 

I was!