Logic Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Like many here, I like Dalton Kincaid the player quite a bit. The only hesitance I have in drafting him is that I was constantly yelling at my screen last year because Dorsey wasn't effectively scheming the athletic, mismatch tight end we ALREADY have on our roster and pay big money to. I'm dubious that a guy who couldn't find a way to effectively use one tight end will suddenly know how to effectively use two. For a first round tight end who figures to be second on the depth chart to be a worthwhile use of draft capital, he needs to actually be utilized with effectiveness and frequency. Moreover, I was and am concerned about what I perceive to be Dorsey's failure to use the offensive weapons on the Bills roster in the way that best suits their traits. We drafted James Cook and traded for Nyheim Hines largely because both are receiving threats and mismatches against linebackers -- then completely failed to deploy them in that fashion. Gabe Davis did a lot of damage his first two years from the slot, matching up against small nickel corners, safeties, and linebackers. Dorsey rarely used him as such last year. As already mentioned, Dawson Knox is an athletic mismatch in the passing game in his own right, Dorsey failed to use him as much more than a last resort outlet receiver. Now add Kincaid to the pile of guys that require a specific type of usage to be most effective. Going into 2023, with a formidable duo of tight ends, two speedy receiving backs, a top five WR, a big-bodied WR with excellent career touchdown production, and even new, speedy additions in Harty and Sherfield -- not to mention whoever the Bills add throughout the rest of draft weekend -- there will no longer be any excuses or training wheels for Ken Dorsey, in my opinion. "Not enough weapons" will no longer be a viable excuse. If Dorsey can't scheme up a consistently effective offense that consistently makes use of guys like Cook, Knox, and Kincaid, he should be shown the door at the end of the year, in my opinion. There will be no shortage of brilliant offensive minds champing at the bit to work with Josh Allen and co if Dorsey can't cut it. 6 13 8 9 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fr. Jerk Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 If things don't go his way I hope we at least get footage of him blowing a gasket again, ya dig? 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeTime101 Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, Logic said: Like many here, I like Dalton Kincaid the player quite a bit. The only hesitance I have in drafting him is that I was constantly yelling at my screen last year because Dorsey wasn't effectively scheming the athletic, mismatch tight end we ALREADY have on our roster and pay big money to. I'm dubious that a guy who couldn't find a way to effectively use one tight end will suddenly know how to effectively use two. For a first round tight end who figures to be second on the depth chart to be a worthwhile use of draft capital, he needs to actually be utilized with effectiveness and frequency. Moreover, I was and am concerned about what I perceive to be Dorsey's failure to use the offensive weapons on the Bills roster in the way that best suits their traits. We drafted James Cook and traded for Nyheim Hines largely because both are receiving threats and mismatches against linebackers -- then completely failed to deploy them in that fashion. Gabe Davis did a lot of damage his first two years from the slot, matching up against small nickel corners, safeties, and linebackers. Dorsey rarely used him as such last year. As already mentioned, Dawson Knox is an athletic mismatch in the passing game in his own right, Dorsey failed to use him as much more than a last resort outlet receiver. Now add Kincaid to the pile of guys that require a specific type of usage to be most effective. Going into 2023, with a formidable duo of tight ends, two speedy receiving backs, a top five WR, a big-bodied WR with excellent career touchdown production, and even new, speedy additions in Harty and Sherfield -- not to mention whoever the Bills add throughout the rest of draft weekend -- there will no longer be any excuses or training wheels for Ken Dorsey, in my opinion. "Not enough weapons" will no longer be a viable excuse. If Dorsey can't scheme up a consistently effective offense that consistently makes use of guys like Cook, Knox, and Kincaid, he should be shown the door at the end of the year, in my opinion. There will be no shortage of brilliant offensive minds champing at the bit to work with Josh Allen and co if Dorsey can't cut it. Why are we at this already, the day after we get Kincaid? Can't we enjoy our picks for a few days before going into the "OC better get it right" Banter? 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 The last paragraph was all you needed to type to make your point, 😁 Yes Dorsey needs to have better play designs so that one play helps support the next play etc etc, I’m going with KD being better with a season of being an OC behind him, 🤞 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fr. Jerk Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said: Why are we at this already, the day after we get Kincaid? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 I agree that his year is the test. Let's not pretend that the Bills offense wasn't good last year. 2nd most in points is nothing to scoff at. But I agree that once other teams found an answer to the Bills blazing hot start they never developed a second punch. Kincaid doesn't really fit any standard mold. Offensive Coordinators who have found ways to take someone who doesn't quite fit and use them in unique ways stand out. There's a reason why Kyle Shanahan got the Niners to the NFC Championship with Brock Purdy at QB and why he felt like he had to get CMC. It was Belicheck coming out with a 2 TE set with Gronkowski and Hernandez that made one of the best offenses in history. Larry Fitzgerald moving inside to extend his career, the Rivers to Antonio Gates connection all took mismatches and made the most of it. After this year, with a year under his belt, he has to have a second and third punch ready. When teams are daring the Bills to run the ball, can they pound it. When they are taking away Diggs, can you make them pay or scheme him open? If not, we need to be moving on. 4 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted April 28, 2023 Author Share Posted April 28, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said: Why are we at this already, the day after we get Kincaid? Can't we enjoy our picks for a few days before going into the "OC better get it right" Banter? Crying and moaning and having kneejerk reactions is my absolute right as an American, darn it! Edited April 28, 2023 by Logic 1 2 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 This reminds me, we need a nickname for Dorsey. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Just now, Don Otreply said: The last paragraph was all you needed to type to make your point, 😁 Yes Dorsey needs to have better play designs so that one play helps support the next play etc etc, I’m going with KD being better with a season of being an OC behind him, 🤞 Yeah - he definitely got stale and probably a bit overwhelmed as the year continued. Allen also looked overwhelmed quite a bit as the year went on. I think Shakir/harty can both come in and make some plays. Adding kinkaid and making that a trio gives you a variety of weapons to attack. Can use shakir as a bit more of a conventional slot WR with some deceptive speed Can use harty as a speed threat on some plays, and remove Davis - different style of player at X. Can put kinkaid in that same mix, a size mismatch against nickel backs, and athleticism against many tight ends. You can run a lot of the similar styles of plays from different formations using the same players too. i'd like to see all 3 of these players in motion quite a bit when they are on the field. As for Cook/hines? I expect them to be able to play as slot WRs occaisionally. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 I'll let him know. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, Logic said: Crying and moaning and having kneejerk reactions is my absolute right as an American, darn it! Sad yet true, 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 There should have been no excuses last year 3 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 He has to get better, and I hope the roster offers no excuses whatsoever, as Logic suggests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 I have a feeling that the offense we saw last year was a somewhat neutered form of Dorsey's offense. The Bills bringing in OJ Howard seems like there was something brewing there before we saw how he played and subsequently cut. Morris is ok and in the beginning of the year they seemed to roll him out for more snaps and then scaled him back. It felt like there was something missing last year and Kincaid may well fit into that spot to be able to run a full playbook now. I do think there is reason to think there will be more creativity. But I also agree that if the offense doesn't evolve, Dorsey need to be bounced. Let's give the fella a chance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 15 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said: Why are we at this already, the day after we get Kincaid? Can't we enjoy our picks for a few days before going into the "OC better get it right" Banter? Yes apparently we are. At least it isn't another "I have a great nickname for ....." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 1 minute ago, mannc said: There should have been no excuses last year Except the starting QB injured his elbow on his throwing arm, a player temporarily died on the field of play, one of our top shelf safeties was out with a neck injury, but ya, no excuses…, 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeTime101 Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 11 minutes ago, Logic said: Crying and moaning and having kneejerk reactions is my absolute right as an American, darn it! LOL! 4 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said: Yes apparently we are. At least it isn't another "I have a great nickname for ....." HA HA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 12 minutes ago, Logic said: Crying and moaning and having kneejerk reactions is my absolute right as an American, darn it! You did quite well crying and moaning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 25 minutes ago, Logic said: Like many here, I like Dalton Kincaid the player quite a bit. The only hesitance I have in drafting him is that I was constantly yelling at my screen last year because Dorsey wasn't effectively scheming the athletic, mismatch tight end we ALREADY have on our roster and pay big money to. I'm dubious that a guy who couldn't find a way to effectively use one tight end will suddenly know how to effectively use two. For a first round tight end who figures to be second on the depth chart to be a worthwhile use of draft capital, he needs to actually be utilized with effectiveness and frequency. Moreover, I was and am concerned about what I perceive to be Dorsey's failure to use the offensive weapons on the Bills roster in the way that best suits their traits. We drafted James Cook and traded for Nyheim Hines largely because both are receiving threats and mismatches against linebackers -- then completely failed to deploy them in that fashion. Gabe Davis did a lot of damage his first two years from the slot, matching up against small nickel corners, safeties, and linebackers. Dorsey rarely used him as such last year. As already mentioned, Dawson Knox is an athletic mismatch in the passing game in his own right, Dorsey failed to use him as much more than a last resort outlet receiver. Now add Kincaid to the pile of guys that require a specific type of usage to be most effective. Going into 2023, with a formidable duo of tight ends, two speedy receiving backs, a top five WR, a big-bodied WR with excellent career touchdown production, and even new, speedy additions in Harty and Sherfield -- not to mention whoever the Bills add throughout the rest of draft weekend -- there will no longer be any excuses or training wheels for Ken Dorsey, in my opinion. "Not enough weapons" will no longer be a viable excuse. If Dorsey can't scheme up a consistently effective offense that consistently makes use of guys like Cook, Knox, and Kincaid, he should be shown the door at the end of the year, in my opinion. There will be no shortage of brilliant offensive minds champing at the bit to work with Josh Allen and co if Dorsey can't cut it. LOL Knox is so overrated by this board he really doesn't do anything at a high level- can't block well, runs sloppy routes, just an average player overall He is not a mismatch in any sense. Defenses aren't gameplanning Dawson Knox 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, Don Otreply said: Except the starting QB injured his elbow on his throwing arm, a player temporarily died on the field of play, one of our top shelf safeties was out with a neck injury, but ya, no excuses…, But those are all Ken Dorsey's fault. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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