Haslett_Stomp Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 29 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said: You were doing so well posting all of this in the other thread. Why start a new one? But let me ask you a question. Do you believe that Beane released Hodgins to sign Brown and Beasley? I'm fairly certain Daboll evolved into a better OC from his first year with the Bills to his last. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low Positive Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Just now, Haslett_Stomp said: I'm fairly certain Daboll evolved into a better OC from his first year with the Bills to his last. I don't thnk that you meant to respond to me, but I could not agree more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Buckets said: Why then didn't he improve during the season, 17 games and actually worse at the end. so it's impossible he reviews this past year, realizes what needs to change, and does it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haslett_Stomp Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Just now, FrenchConnection said: I don't thnk that you meant to respond to me, but I could not agree more. You're correct, sorry. Damn multi-tasking!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, JohnNord said: I agree but I do get where he’s coming from after watching the SB, regarding Dorsey. You have 2 very good offensive play callers just balling out. When you look at Andy Reid’s play design and overall scheme and they you look at what Dorsey did last season, it’s easy to not feel optimistic. Granted he will never Andy Reid. Maybe not even Nick Sirianni. But I didn’t find his play calling very encouraging last season. Consistency. Changing coordinators and trying to “force” a relationship from outside the franchise doesn’t usually bode well. It also happens when your Franchise QB goes to bat for someone. It’s not like Dorsey wants qualified for the job. You mean, like, consistently awful? And coordinators get hired into other organizations from without all the time. Josh is probably, indeed evidently, not the best judge of who his coach should be. If you are saying Dorsey was not qualified for the job then I agree with you. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 33 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: Regarding your last sentence, I also don't understand how Dorsey is supposed to evolve into a different, much better coordinator in one off-season. Sure, he probably picked up some experience here and there and learned some things, generally, but he's going to be the same guy next September. That's not good. I do so hope your wrong, but you are likely right, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCbillsfan Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 30 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: I’m going to pre-face this by saying that I think that our general manager overall has done an outstanding job, you don’t stay in the playoffs every year and have 13 and three seasons whenever your GM sucks However I agree with the take of saying one thing, and doing another, whenever it comes to the offensive line It feels like we have done the bare minimum to try to put a confident offensive line on the field, start addressing it the same way that you have been addressing the defensive line but hopefully with better players Beane needs to emphasize oline with premium assets. Enough with bargain bin shopping for oline guys. Protect Allen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 13 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Maybe you're young, but this statement, in my humble opinion, is amazingly naive. Do you think that if Dorsey is an Offensive coordinator for the next 20 years, he won't be any better than he was this season? That he'll never improve? That's just wrong. I've practiced law for 40 years, and I was so much better in year 5 than year 1, it was amazing. Year 10 I was way ahead of year 5, and by year 20, well, that's when I hit my stride. Ask Andy Reid, and he'll tell you the same thing about his coaching career. Ask Belichick. I saw an interview after he won his most recent NBA championship. He was asked what he would say to the 27-year-old Lebron (after his first championship) if he could sit in a room with him. Lebron said he'd tell the kid Lebron, "you don't have a clue." Your letter carrier may not get better his job, but professional football coaches get better, for sure. ....not all of them...I can recall an OC named Nathaniel Hackett who's every bit as bad now as he was years ago with us. In theory some get better with time, patience and experience. But some like Hackett & Rex don't. I'm the same age as you Shaw and have worked in various industries. Some get better and some don't. I just personally don't see Dorsey having that innovative ability to improve. The bottom line IMHO is find a dynamic OC (Ben Johnson type) to promote as your HC. So Josh isn't changing philosophies every 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 21 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Maybe you're young, but this statement, in my humble opinion, is amazingly naive. Do you think that if Dorsey is an Offensive coordinator for the next 20 years, he won't be any better than he was this season? That he'll never improve? That's just wrong. I've practiced law for 40 years, and I was so much better in year 5 than year 1, it was amazing. Year 10 I was way ahead of year 5, and by year 20, well, that's when I hit my stride. Ask Andy Reid, and he'll tell you the same thing about his coaching career. Ask Belichick. I saw an interview after he won his most recent NBA championship. He was asked what he would say to the 27-year-old Lebron (after his first championship) if he could sit in a room with him. Lebron said he'd tell the kid Lebron, "you don't have a clue." Your letter carrier may not get better his job, but professional football coaches get better, for sure. The real question is how many years can we afford to wait for that growth without sacrificing the prime years of our QB.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 as alluded to here already, we know dorsey is going to be here next year, so we all better damn well hope he learns. bringing some new personnel hopefully makes it easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Just now, teef said: as alluded to here already, we know dorsey is going to be here next year, so we all better damn well hope he learns. bringing some new personnel hopefully makes it easier. True, he's already been given the thumbs up for year 2. Obviously we all root for him to improve. Plenty of people including myself had issues with Daboll early. But Daboll had substantially more experience than Ken. That's why I'm very skeptical. I needed to see a little bit more clever or innovative plays and they weren't there this season. The headset meltdown didn't help either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billz4ever Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, teef said: as alluded to here already, we know dorsey is going to be here next year, so we all better damn well hope he learns. bringing some new personnel hopefully makes it easier. Dorsey can start by going back and watching what they were doing the first 6 1/2 games last year and try and figure out what changed. I can tell you one thing that changed...taking short passes. By the end of the season, it felt like the short pass game had been entirely deleted from the playbook and everything was medium to longer routes on dropbacks that were taking too long to develop given how bad the line was. Getting Cook involved in the passing game is also a must. And I mean a lot more than simply a checkdown dump off. Edited February 13, 2023 by Billz4ever 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 20 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said: OL is the hardest thing to address for two related reasons: The goal of college coaches is to win, not develop players for the NFL. What get wins in college are single-read spread offenses. OL in college don't have to hold pass blocks longer than 2 seconds for the most part. Outside of the top guys who usually go in the top 15 picks, it's really hard to project them. That's why the entire NFL scouting community, not just Brandon Beane, wiffed on Cody Ford. Years ago, Colin Cowheard was talking about a conversation that he had with an NFL GM where the GM said that it would be easier to get a bunch of LBs or TEs, bulk them up, and teach them how to block than it is to undo the years of bad technique that college linemen comem in with. So it's hard to scout and hard to teach. For the most part, good OL don't hit FA and if they do you have to massively overpay. The Bengals tried to buy an OL this past offseason and they had to make a massive offensive scheme adjustment midseasont o compensate for the fact that the money invested didn't yield better results. The fact that the Bills should have made the same adjustment (go to a quick passing game and screens to slow down the rush) is a topic for another conversation. If you were to draft 7 OL in a single year, hitting on 3 would be a good yield. And I think this problem will continue to compound beause fewer and fewer kids want to play a thankless position. Then that's what needs to happen. Spend an ENTIRE draft or multiple drafts on OL till you get it right. "It's hard" is an excuse for amateurs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 I wasn't a fan of him learning on the job. But I also have to admit that just like any job time and experience can bring improvement to your position. Since you can pretty much count on that the fact that he's not going anywhere, one can only hope that he's learned from his past shortcomings and takes advantage of his second year in hopes of doing a better job for the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsGospel2014 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 59 minutes ago, Rebel101 said: "A lot of love for him. Big kid," general manager Brandon Beane said. "Last time we went to Virginia Tech late, it worked out with Wyatt. I screwed it up, but we found a good player there. Not to say this kid is going to be Wyatt, but we're excited about him." This is an article about Wyatt Teller a prospect I thought we hit with & showed great potential said he was a bully & nasty. Clearly Beane wasn’t high on him maybe he didn’t fit the culture. Took what we could get in a trade & he became a pro bowler. Now Hodgins flashed in camp a few times. Brought a huge element to the offense big body,speed, I mean added to Diggs, Davis, McKenzie/Shakir would have gave us some great matchups. The fact Beane let him sit on the PS. Knowing Daboll knows all about Hodgins why not active. You bring in John Brown & Cole Beasley. Both old & already played themselves out of Buffalo. So I have no faith in McDermott or Beane fixing their issues. While our owner clearly is dealing with health issues of his wife a part owner as well. So I don’t see anything being fixed next year. Unless Dorsey has a revelation. So you have no faith in ownership, coaches and GM because we didn't activate 6th round WR to the active roster and we traded away a G who happened to be an all pro? I think people are losing their minds right before our eyes. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 1 hour ago, starrymessenger said: You mean, like, consistently awful? And coordinators get hired into other organizations from without all the time. Josh is probably, indeed evidently, not the best judge of who his coach should be. If you are saying Dorsey was not qualified for the job then I agree with you. Name a team with a franchise QB that hired outside the org to replace a departing OC. More times that not, it’s an internal hire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goin Breakdown Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 He admitted to 1 fault yet has to learn from mistake(s) the math is off especially if he's not seeing it the way we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uticaclub Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, John from Riverside said: I’m going to pre-face this by saying that I think that our general manager overall has done an outstanding job, you don’t stay in the playoffs every year and have 13 and three seasons whenever your GM sucks However I agree with the take of saying one thing, and doing another, whenever it comes to the offensive line It feels like we have done the bare minimum to try to put a confident offensive line on the field, start addressing it the same way that you have been addressing the defensive line but hopefully with better players We are in the playoffs because Beane drafted Allen. We arent making confidence championships because Beane has missed on every other move other than trading for Diggs. Edited February 14, 2023 by uticaclub 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 2 hours ago, JohnNord said: The part about Teller is a lot of hindsight. They traded him because he was a 5th round pick that had value and couldn’t beat out Quinton Spain. He probably wasn’t going to make the team and they likely couldn’t keep him on the PS, so they made the deal. That’s it Clearly they should have been more patient with him, but he was not the same player he was turned out to be in Cleveland. He wasn’t… that happens. If you are going to fault Beane and McDermott’s drafting, it should be how they have prioritized defense over offense and have been largely unsuccessful. Agreed and Teller has thrived in a run first - heavy run offense - which the Bills would not have been. Teller still struggles when the Browns are forced to throw and teams don’t respect the run. His pass blocking is not great and although he might be a slight improvement here - I doubt he is anywhere near the same player on a pass heavy - pass first team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern_Bills Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 2 hours ago, teef said: you don't think a new coordinator can improve from one season to the next? he may not, but to act like it can't happen is wrong. I would actually think it's like a player, year 1 to 2 can be the biggest jump. He seen alot he had never seen this year, made alot of mistakes. Hopefully he learned from them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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