2023 Salary Cap numbers released

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

And you need some for the draft class.  There is not much to be done this year. They will probably do some more void year stuff that could generate even more but that seems like a bad idea

They have enough to sign Edmunds, sign Phillips, and sign draft picks. That would leave holes at SS and OG.

 

Extensions could be in order for DaQuan Jones and Nyheim Hines. Could create a nice chunk of cal space there. These 2 eat up about $13 million right now. A decision has to be made on Morse. I think the time has come. I would cut Morse and create $6 mill. Draft his replacement in the first 3 rounds. Draft OL in the 1st 3 rounds.

 

A decision has to be made on Oliver. An extension would lower his cap hit considerably. As would a trade obviously.

 

We should have money to replace Poyer with a veteran safety. 
 

 we’d be in good position. We need to draft starters this year. 

 

 

[H2o]

3 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Nah, they can make moves to free up space pretty easily. They probably will have to choose between Edmunds and Poyer, but after that if someone doesn't get re-signed it's because they don't believe what he is asking for is equal to his actual value. 

 

And that's a thing too, FYI. If someone is going to get a crazy offer in UFA, either you are going to choose to overpay them or you are going to let someone else choose to overpay them.

 

I'd rather it be someone else.

You can't just keep shoving the money back. It's always going to catch up to you at some point. We also better not hand a LB $18-$20M with all of the holes everywhere else on the roster. That in itself would be stupid. They're better off letting both Poyer and Edmunds walk then looking towards the draft for replacements. 

[BADOLBILZ]

14 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

With restructuring alone.

 

 

 

 

So people aren't confused............Greg T means cap space the Bills can create.

 

They are already $21M in the hole though.

 

So $57M worth of work would give them $36M in cap room.

 

And that's almost everything of note that they can do short of a few releases(like Morse and Hines examples).

 

Now as for signing players...........they could sign Edmunds for a long term deal and backload it so the initial cap figure is very small and not need much space at all...........that's why I fear they will do that.

 

Basically they are in a decent position to sign players that warrant long term contracts because they can backload them.

 

Where this hurts is the majority of free agent deals which are 2-3 years in length...........I don't see a Dalton Risner, for example, wanting ghost years added to his deal when he thinks he will play beyond that. 

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, H2o said:

You can't just keep shoving the money back. It's always going to catch up to you at some point. We also better not hand a LB $18-$20M with all of the holes everywhere else on the roster. That in itself would be stupid. They're better off letting both Poyer and Edmunds walk then looking towards the draft for replacements. 

Edmunds cap hit would be relatively low early in the contract. It’s going to be interesting to see what they do with Edmunds and Oliver.

 

 I think they should move on from Edmunds, Poyer, and Oliver. It’ll be a tough decision. Use the money to build both OL and DL.

[ColoradoBills]

8 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

I'm not an expert on this at all...but at some point won't all the restructuring/backloading eventually put us in a really tough spot with the cap? 

 

Like is this sustainable or is it just kicking the can down the road?

 

Restructuring is a useful "tool" in cap management, but it is not a way of life like some believe.

Many are looking as 2023 is a tough year for the cap, but in reality, it's not as bad as 2024.

 

There is risk with restructuring the wrong contracts.  I will be watching what Beane does with Von Miller.  I am of the opinion that

restructuring Von is a mistake.  As it is now the Bills can get out of Von's contract at the start of the 2025 season (Von will be 36)

for a dead money cost of $7.4M.  If Beane does a standard 5 year restructure his Dead Money will go up to around $13M.

Will Von's play be worth that coming off an ACL at his age?  As it is now, Von's cap hit is $21.2M in 2024.  Restructuring will push

that up to close to $24M in 2024.  What then?  Restructure again?

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/von-miller-7717/

 

Like I say every year, SOME restructuring is OK and quite normal, too much is a problem that I think Beane will not do.

[Billz4ever]

5 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Restructuring is a useful "tool" in cap management, but it is not a way of life like some believe.

Many are looking as 2023 is a tough year for the cap, but in reality, it's not as bad as 2024.

 

There is risk with restructuring the wrong contracts.  I will be watching what Beane does with Von Miller.  I am of the opinion that

restructuring Von is a mistake.  As it is now the Bills can get out of Von's contract at the start of the 2025 season (Von will be 36)

for a dead money cost of $7.4M.  If Beane does a standard 5 year restructure his Dead Money will go up to around $13M.

Will Von's play be worth that coming off an ACL at his age?  As it is now, Von's cap hit is $21.2M in 2024.  Restructuring will push

that up to close to $24M in 2024.  What then?  Restructure again?

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/von-miller-7717/

 

Like I say every year, SOME restructuring is OK and quite normal, too much is a problem that I think Beane will not do.

Yep, if a player's future may be up in the air down the road do to age, injury or both, restructuring a big contract should be avoided.

 

Someone like Josh, on the other hand, makes a lot of sense.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Billz4ever

[dave mcbride]

32 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yep.........time for Beane and his hallowed scouting department to earn the hype.

 

 

 

 

The issue is that they don't have that many picks (how is it that the Bills NEVER got any comp picks??) and they're late:

 

Round 1, Pick 27

Round 2, Pick 59

Round 3, Pick 91

Round 4, Pick 128

Round 5, Pick 135 (from Arizona)

Round 5, Pick 160

 

Maybe they can turn the late 4th and early 5th round pick into a late 3rd if there is a player that they really value, but there is nothing for the sixth and seventh rounds. I wouldn't be surprised if we see some day 3 wheeling and dealing to move down and accumulate more picks. My guess is that this is the first year post-covid where they have a lot of usable film on guys plus more live scouting (meaning multiple years), so they may be more confident in what's out there. If you don't really know what's out there when you get to rounds 6 and 7, then the picks are less valuable.  

 

They've gotten some decent contributing talent in rounds 6 and 7 recently: Benford, Dane Jackson (great value for 7th rounder even if he's hardly a star), Bass, Hamlin, and Hodgins (obviously not for the Bills). Incidentally, they got two years out of Darry Johnson before flipping him to Carolina for a sixth (not that he was much of a contributor). Ray-Ray McCloud has hung around too! He was moderately productive for SF this year too - a lot of punt returns and over 10 yards per return, kickoff returns, and 14 receptions for 17.4 ypc. He had 39 catches for Pitt in 2021 too. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by dave mcbride

[NewEra]

51 minutes ago, dhgold said:

I don't understand why people want to get rid of Morse. It seems like he's one of only two effective players on the Bills most problematic unit.

To save 6.5M.  Poor trade off imo.  Hopefully he stays and plays another 2-3 years.  

[GolfandBills]

55 minutes ago, dhgold said:

I don't understand why people want to get rid of Morse. It seems like he's one of only two effective players on the Bills most problematic unit.

Happens every year.  They see a cap savings and want him gone only to not replace him 

[ColoradoBills]

6 minutes ago, NewEra said:

To save 6.5M.  Poor trade off imo.  Hopefully he stays and plays another 2-3 years.  

 

I'm not sure about another 3 years but I agree he isn't going anywhere this coming season.

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The issue is that they don't have that many picks (how is it that the Bills NEVER got any comp picks??) and they're late:

 

Round 1, Pick 27

Round 2, Pick 59

Round 3, Pick 91

Round 4, Pick 128

Round 5, Pick 135 (from Arizona)

Round 5, Pick 160

 

Maybe they can turn the late 4th and early 5th round pick into a late 3rd if there is a player that they really value, but there is nothing for the sixth and seventh rounds. I wouldn't be surprised if we see some day 3 wheeling and dealing to move down and accumulate more picks. My guess is that this is the first year post-covid where they have a lot of usable film on guys plus more live scouting (meaning multiple years), so they may be more confident in what's out there. If you don't really know what's out there when you get to rounds 6 and 7, then the picks are less valuable.  

 

They've gotten some decent contributing talent in rounds 6 and 7 recently: Benford, Dane Jackson (great value for 7th rounder even if he's hardly a star), Bass, Hamlin, and Hodgins (obviously not for the Bills). Incidentally, they got two years out of Darry Johnson before flipping him to Carolina for a sixth (not that he was much of a contributor). Ray-Ray McCloud has hung around too! He was moderately productive for SF this year too - a lot of punt returns and over 10 yards per return, kickoff returns, and 14 receptions for 17.4 ypc. He had 39 catches for Pitt in 2021 too. 

 

 

Yeah it's rounds 2 and 3 that have consistently injured Beane's drafts.

 

I'm not giving Beane a pass because he has less assets to work with this time..........he has JA17 and winning to sell free agents.........he has basically a full allotment of picks because that early 5th is worth at least a 6th and 7th.    He needs to be much more efficient with what he has to work with.   It's possible.   The 2 teams in the SB have done it in recent offseasons.   

 

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I'm not sure about another 3 years but I agree he isn't going anywhere this coming season.

Hopefully. He’s a solid center and leader. The concussions are definitely an issue, but the guy is 30 years old.  If he decides to play another 2-3 years it’s because he’s body (head) allows him to.

[Airseven]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It’s right in the neighborhood. Doesn’t change much, good or bad. 
 

We’re in position to create $40+ million in space with restructuring contracts. More with cuts. 

 

That's quite the convenient assumption.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, Airseven said:

 

That's quite the convenient assumption.

It’s not an assumption. Facts. What they will do is unknown.

[FieldGeneral]

Allen, Dawkins, and Diggs could restructure. We need a lot. 

[BarleyNY]

While it is necessary to restructure some contracts, the Bills have to keep an eye on future seasons. They currently have approximately $220M allocated in 2024. Restructures this season will add to that cap number.

[ngbills]

Bills need to draft better and do better in free agency. Look at the Bills Bills roster construction vs Chiefs. This year KC is getting a ton out of guys making $2M or less. So many examples - Dunlap making $3M while we pay Tyler Mata over $3M. Look at the low end of the cap and they get a ton of production while we are paying guys $3M+ for less.

 

Next year:

 

Chiefs are paying Mahomes $47M, Frank Clark $30M, Chris Jones $28M, Joe Thuney $22M. After that they only have 4 guys above $5M.

 

Bills on the other hand have Josh at $40M, Diggs at $20M. But have 13 guys at $5M.

 

That is 15 guys at the $5M and above range vs only 8 for the Chiefs. Bills are paying $5-10M+ for guys like T Johnson, Oliver, Jones, Settle, Bates, Hines, etc. Then not $5M but $3M for guys like Neal, McK. Meanwhile KC is getting a lot of production from guys under $2M like Toney, Pacheco, Gay, Bolton, Humphrey, Moore, Cook, Gray, Smith, Watson and more.

 

The cap issues are self inflicted. We overpay for guys the coaches like and dont have the contribution from low cost draft picks. 

[jahnyc]

Morse at his current contract is reasonable value.  Can't cut Oliver because his compensation for 2023 if fully guaranteed and I doubt he can be traded.

 

Would we restructure Tre?  Does the base salary restructure affect our ability to move on from Tre in 2024 or 2025?  Tre is one of my favorite players on the Bills, but there must be at least some concern about whether he will return to form for the 2023 season. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Beane is an absolute legend with contracts. 

[cle23]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I think they save about $6 million in cap space. You can sign 2 quality interior OL for that cap hit.

 

Which "quality" O line are you signing for $3M each?  Rookies you can get less than that, but you aren't signing a quality veteran for $3M.  The 28th highest paid veteran guard is the 1st to go under $4M per year, and none of them are starters.