Im convinced its coaching (Chiefs showing how to handle Bengals)

[Billsfan1972]

28 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

You do know they won because of a personal foul with like 25 seconds left in the 4th.  IMO they never should have thrown the flag as they decided the game with it.  So your headline is wrong, the Chiefs escaped, at home, against the Bengals. They didn’t show anything on how to handle them! 

The Thread was started in the first quarter when Cincy was stopped the first two drives vs. the Bills being walked over & down 14-0. 

 

Cincy's defense should be commended as it could have been 14-0 KC. 

 

They also had the 3 & out of the game just prior to half after the Burrow interception and 1st & ten at Cincy 39.  They don't stop them there & the game would have been over.  Oh & started the second half that way.

 

Now give Cincy credit those two stops changed the game as their offense scored 10 points.

 

Compare that to last week when the Bills too got the ball with two munutes left in the first half and the kickoff to start the third.  As bad as Buffalo had played, if the offence stepped up and some better coaching and calls it could have been 17-17 or 21-17 and a new game./     

2 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Scheme and gameplanning is a major part of winning vs those teams and McDermott doesn't bring any of that, he's absolutely useless offensively and has a rookie OC with a very green offensive staff.

And he's the defensive genius who f'd up 13 seconds & OT.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

12 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Scheme and gameplanning is a major part of winning vs those teams and McDermott doesn't bring any of that, he's absolutely useless offensively and has a rookie OC with a very green offensive staff.

So you looked at the DL and decided they should get pressure with a 4 man pass rush?

 

They had a green OC and QB coach but brought in experienced OL coach and experienced offensive assistant Mike Shula to help.

[colin]

it's true we have a talent issue at key spots, but how can any rational fan not see how badly our coaching has been in our playoff exits?

 

no matter if we were ahead and gave up the lead, or behind and just turtled (we seem to alternate that on playoff losses) the coaches had ZERO answers.  no change ups, no wrinkles, nothing.

 

on top of that, the blowing of the big lead in houston, kicking the FG at the end of the first half vs KC, 13 seconds vs kc, and the rah rah bs and family time prior to not practicing to play cinci at home.  our coaches have blundered in terms of scheme, in terms of preparation and in terms of game day adjustments.

 

 

on the topic of talent -- having talented rookies sit, or plowing free agent money and high picks (2 firsts, 2 seconds, and our biggest external hires outside of diggs) into a D line where PLAYERS SIT ABOUT 2X TO WHAT THEY PLAY, is just asinine.

 

the star model of franchise building (tampa, kc, rams, cinci all follow it, maybe SF too) where you get some just absolute studs and fill in the rest as best as you can seems to be the way to go.

 

i used to think the biggest risk was injuries, like how losing von and our safeties seems to have turned our d into swiss cheese, but other teams seem to be able to have injuries and simply make adjustments.  cinci w the destroyed oline and baltimore missing their mvp qb come to mind.

 

i think we've spent our cap on our coach's fanciful ideal of half the roster being rotated in and out and over paid for a squad of super Jags, while picking guys high and letting them sit while our starters get older and make mistakes.

 

i think the biggest take away is that our FO seems to have crossed the line from steady even handedness to outright arrogance.  running the same paint buy numbers d in the play offs after the opponents have figured it out, along w bringing back lawson, phillips, beas, and brown shows me the coaches think they have the special sauce and they just need someone who can run it correctly, including street free agents.

[Nitro]

McD is entering a make or break season.  This past one was under cut by injuries, weather and Hamlin's terrifying health scare.  IMP they did a good job getting wins.  The sloppy play and mistakes led to two losses.  Playoffs are different.  I have been underwhelmed by the coaching in the past three playoffs.  No changes, plays or wrinkles.   Attack mode on defense.  Both KC and Bengals were very aggressive.  Frazier is not an aggressive coach.  Feet of clay. Time to bring in a new guy to groom for the job.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

9 minutes ago, colin said:

it's true we have a talent issue at key spots, but how can any rational fan not see how badly our coaching has been in our playoff exits?

 

no matter if we were ahead and gave up the lead, or behind and just turtled (we seem to alternate that on playoff losses) the coaches had ZERO answers.  no change ups, no wrinkles, nothing.

 

on top of that, the blowing of the big lead in houston, kicking the FG at the end of the first half vs KC, 13 seconds vs kc, and the rah rah bs and family time prior to not practicing to play cinci at home.  our coaches have blundered in terms of scheme, in terms of preparation and in terms of game day adjustments.

 

 

on the topic of talent -- having talented rookies sit, or plowing free agent money and high picks (2 firsts, 2 seconds, and our biggest external hires outside of diggs) into a D line where PLAYERS SIT ABOUT 2X TO WHAT THEY PLAY, is just asinine.

 

the star model of franchise building (tampa, kc, rams, cinci all follow it, maybe SF too) where you get some just absolute studs and fill in the rest as best as you can seems to be the way to go.

 

i used to think the biggest risk was injuries, like how losing von and our safeties seems to have turned our d into swiss cheese, but other teams seem to be able to have injuries and simply make adjustments.  cinci w the destroyed oline and baltimore missing their mvp qb come to mind.

 

i think we've spent our cap on our coach's fanciful ideal of half the roster being rotated in and out and over paid for a squad of super Jags, while picking guys high and letting them sit while our starters get older and make mistakes.

 

i think the biggest take away is that our FO seems to have crossed the line from steady even handedness to outright arrogance.  running the same paint buy numbers d in the play offs after the opponents have figured it out, along w bringing back lawson, phillips, beas, and brown shows me the coaches think they have the special sauce and they just need someone who can run it correctly, including street free agents.

They played all types of coverage vs Cincinnati. Nothing worked. We forget that the major topic starting around the Vikings game was our CBs and S’s stinking. I know that Vikings game they pressed like crazy and got destroyed. Even with a pass rush.

 

What the Bills coaches don’t do is get out of nickel. But that’s by far our best personnel grouping. I mean you’re not taking Taron Johnson off the field for a LB vs Cincinnati. So I’m not sure. 

 

 

[quinnearlysghost88]

12 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Dont want to get a ban for comparing our team to the teams playing in the GDT so I am putting it here.  Im totally convinced its coaching.  KC its killing that Oline.  Their players arent better than ours.  Jones is a beast but really nobodies outside of that.  The difference is how they actually play the receivers tight and not 10 yards off and back up at the snap.  Burrow cant throw quick because it aint there for free.

 

Same story on offense. Allen may not be Mahomes but he is elite.  Their offensive design and coaching is second to none.  I feel like Dorsey is just backyard football.  A lot of people say "Josh wont take the underneath stuff."  I believe he would if he was coached to and the plays were designed to.  

That was pretty apparent when mahomes got hurt last week and his backup drove 98 yards for a TD

[Billsfan1972]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

They played all types of coverage vs Cincinnati. Nothing worked. We forget that the major topic starting around the Vikings game was our CBs and S’s stinking. I know that Vikings game they pressed like crazy and got destroyed. Even with a pass rush.

 

What the Bills coaches don’t do is get out of nickel. But that’s by far our best personnel grouping. I mean you’re not taking Taron Johnson off the field for a LB vs Cincinnati. So I’m not sure. 

 

 

You maybe 100% right as I am not so nuanced, however there is no way the Bills should have been steamrolled like that and let's go back to January 2nd, when the first two series Cincy was doing whatever they wanted.  For the Bills to come out maybe worse 3 weeks later at home was a joke.

 

The Coaches learned (or did) nothing. 

 

And where were all the Experts from week 8 on not banging the drum that the Bills D is not that good?  Seems only a few "Non-Experts" here.....  Oh and now you and others.🤣

Edited January 30, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[Billzgobowlin]

Could be also they were a lot fresher.  They had a bye week and then played Jacksonville.  We beat KC this year and split last year

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

You maybe 100% right as I am not so nuanced, however there is no way the Bills should have been steamrolled like that and let's go back to January 2nd, when the first two series Cincy was doing whatever they wanted.  For the Bills to come out maybe worse 3 weeks later at home was a joke.

 

The Coaches learned (or did) nothing. 

They came out more aggressive the 1st matchup with Cincy and got burned the 1st drive. Bills don’t match up well vs that Bengals offense.

 

The biggest problem was the offense just couldn’t get going to help the defense. Everything was bad. They laid an egg. That’s my disappointment with the coaching staff. They weren’t ready to play. But it’s not a common occurrence. 
 

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

They came out more aggressive the 1st matchup with Cincy and got burned the 1st drive. Bills don’t match up well vs that Bengals offense.

 

The biggest problem was the offense just couldn’t get going to help the defense. Everything was bad. They laid an egg. That’s my disappointment with the coaching staff. They weren’t ready to play. But it’s not a common occurrence. 
 

Such a cop-out.....

 

Coaching let them down (like it did 13 seconds).

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Such a cop-out.....

 

Coaching let them down (like it did 13 seconds).

not a cop out. We’re not as talented in key spots as the Chiefs and Bengals. We’re missing 1-2 playmakers on offense and defense. 

 

Coaching definitely let them down at 13 seconds. People assumed we beat Cincinnati the following week though, I don’t know.

 

 

 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

We need our Chris Jones in the playoffs. It was supposed to Von. 
 

As for rookies I think that might have been the biggest mistake from the coaches. They should’ve put their most physically gifted CB out there and let him play physical. I remember all camp and all season the talk of Elam was he’s too handsy. He liked to get his hands on WRs. They wanted that to stop. Problem is that’s exactly what we needed.

Chris Jones is amazing player but without the scheme behind him its not gonna matter. We decided to not even give our dline a chance vs the Bengals they ate up our zones for breakfast lunch and dinner. Even if we had Von it wouldn’t of made a big difference unless the scheme changed in the back 7 which I highly doubt Frazier is capable of or even wants to change his coverages. 

[Dr. Who]

9 minutes ago, Billzgobowlin said:

Could be also they were a lot fresher.  They had a bye week and then played Jacksonville.  We beat KC this year and split last year

Turns out the first round bye is a thing, but if you're the Bills and can't play well in snow, that's a problem.

[Billsfan1972]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

not a cop out. We’re not as talented in key spots as the Chiefs and Bengals. We’re missing 1-2 playmakers on offense and defense. 

 

Coaching definitely let them down at 13 seconds. People assumed we beat Cincinnati the following week though, I don’t know.

 

 

 

No revisionist history.  Did the Bills have injuries?  Yes. 

 

Were the Bills the favourite to win the Superbowl the entire year? 

 

I'm tired after the fact everyone coming out of the woodwork telling "us" that the Bills "Don't match up well" or forgetting Cincy was missing 3 people on the OL vs. Buffalo.

 

A lot of things went wrong (and weather really played a factor), but in the end it was the Coaching that was primarily the problem. 

[mjt328]

There are two ways to win in the NFL:

1.  Have more talent than your opponent

2.  Have a better gameplan than your opponent

 

The problem the Bills have is very simple... They always rely on #1.

 

Our coaching staff is great at teaching fundamentals.  Preparation.  Knowing your assignment.  Being in the right place on the field.  The scheme is pretty basic and doesn't change much from week-to-week, season-to-season.  Their philosophy is that if the team executes at a high level and avoids mistakes, they should walk out of the game with a victory.  That strategy has worked pretty well over the course of a 17-game season, because the Bills do have a pretty talented roster. 

 

But once you hit the playoffs, the talent gap shrinks.  The Bills don't have a significantly more talented roster than Kansas City or Cincinnati.  Even our superstar quarterback really gives us no advantage over the other team.  We can't just line up on the ball and execute.  At that point, we MUST use specific strategies to attack our opponent's tendencies and weaknesses.

 

You could see it clearly yesterday.  The Chiefs did everything in their power to confuse and overwhelm the Bengals inexperienced O-Line.  They jammed the receivers, to make sure Joe Burrow didn't have quick/easy throws and HAD to stand in the pocket.  It didn't completely shut him down, but it did enough to kill several drives and help them win the game.  The Bills (of course) just lined up 4 rushers most of the game, asked them to beat the guy across from them in 2 seconds, and then gave a 10 yard cushion to the receivers.

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

28 minutes ago, Nitro said:

McD is entering a make or break season.  This past one was under cut by injuries, weather and Hamlin's terrifying health scare.  IMP they did a good job getting wins.  The sloppy play and mistakes led to two losses.  Playoffs are different.  I have been underwhelmed by the coaching in the past three playoffs.  No changes, plays or wrinkles.   Attack mode on defense.  Both KC and Bengals were very aggressive.  Frazier is not an aggressive coach.  Feet of clay. Time to bring in a new guy to groom for the job.

The Chiefs came out with a good game plan and to their credit the Bengals made adjustments.  KC lost some receivers and had to adjust their offense on the fly.  It was back and forth in the second half.  It was a chess match between the two that came down to the end which could have gone either way a play or two different. 

 

But my expectation is there's close to a zero chance this Bills coaching staff will apply any learning or experiences from the past few seasons and playoffs that will fundamentally alter anything they do regarding the scheme or play calling.  So why wait to make a change?  It's just wishful thinking to expect some light to go on that will cause this crew to fundamentally change anything.  If it hasn't happened yet it isn't going to happen.  Is ownership that disconnected from reality?  Why waste another season of all our lives, and more importantly Josh Allen's career? 

 

The Bills have 24 UFA's and not much cap space.  They need to hit on the draft, sign some cheap free agents that will outplay their contracts, and make some adjustment is play calling and scheme on both sides of the ball.  A lot changes to stay in the hunt.  The coaching staff doesn't seem up to the task, neither does the front office which I think is a bigger problem and a whole other conversation.  I think 2023 is going to be rough which will be followed by some big changes and a return to contention.    

[Captain_Quint]

One of the biggest differences when you watch the regular season and post season the last few years is the liberal CB play, where they are allowed to make alot more contact.

 

Except for our games, where we still play off the WRs for some reason. Frazier needs to take advantage of this next year and coach the secondary to be geared towards the trend. It's low hanging fruit when you're allowed to push and grab the whole way down the field. But if you don't do it, it's a huge disadvantage.

 

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said:

You do know they won because of a personal foul with like 25 seconds left in the 4th.  IMO they never should have thrown the flag as they decided the game with it.  So your headline is wrong, the Chiefs escaped, at home, against the Bengals. They didn’t show anything on how to handle them! 

And now you know what it felt like to watch the Brady led Pats** get the helpful call for over a decade. NFL transferred the mantle to Mahomes and the Chiefs.

[SCBills]

35 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

They came out more aggressive the 1st matchup with Cincy and got burned the 1st drive. Bills don’t match up well vs that Bengals offense.

 

The biggest problem was the offense just couldn’t get going to help the defense. Everything was bad. They laid an egg. That’s my disappointment with the coaching staff. They weren’t ready to play. But it’s not a common occurrence. 
 

Not a common occurrence … We have an elite QB and the team is, and should be judged, by the Playoffs. 
 

This team, assembled by Beane, and coached by McDermott, has been an abject disaster in big moments. 
 

Houston, fine, whatever.  I won’t kill McDermott for that game, but it was a collapse. 
 

KC (1) We weren’t on their level.  Completely outplayed.  Able to accept that as a learning curve on what it takes to win a game like that.  
 

KC (2) 13 seconds… an iconic display of poor coaching/execution 

 

CIN Blown out. Not even competitive. 
 

….Coaches have been fired for less.  He should 100% be on the hot seat this year.   Another loss to end the season like these past two years and I don’t know why we’d think being the one high level team with a Defensive HC is something we should continue with.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

28 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Chris Jones is amazing player but without the scheme behind him its not gonna matter. We decided to not even give our dline a chance vs the Bengals they ate up our zones for breakfast lunch and dinner. Even if we had Von it wouldn’t have made a big difference unless the scheme changed in the back 7 which I highly doubt Frazier is capable of or even wants to change his coverages. 

I understand there’s blood in the water but the main conversation leading up to the playoffs was our secondary. I beg you to go back and watch the Vikings game. Even with a pass rush and press coverage the DBs couldn’t defend. 

 

We have this conversation a lot and I always come back to the players . You know why 13 seconds happened? Because the play before the defensive call was to play press man and make KC beat them. Tyreek Hill goes house.

 

So do they coach scared at times? Yes! it’s because the players tend to come up short when asked to make a play.