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[Coach Tuesday]

Beane basically threw all of their 2022 draft picks in the garbage.  It was a horrible draft at the worst possible time - they're gonna need the cheap labor reinforcements with Allen's cap hit going up, but they're not on the roster.

[John from Riverside]

10 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Beane basically threw all of their 2022 draft picks in the garbage.  It was a horrible draft at the worst possible time - they're gonna need the cheap labor reinforcements with Allen's cap hit going up, but they're not on the roster.

Yeah, no he didn’t

There are two pics out of that draft that are not panning out into something

[Coach Tuesday]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Yeah, no he didn’t

There are two pics out of that draft that are not panning out into something

 

Elam was a healthy scratch for much of the year and they didn't deploy him to his strengths.

 

Cook is a pass-catching back who caught 21 passes all season.

 

Bernard can't play football and doesn't play a premium position anyhow.  Healthy scratch.

 

Shakir was barely used.

 

Benford spent a lot of time out of the lineup.

 

Arazia and Tenuta are not on the team anymore.

 

Spector was inactive all year.

 

They did not get a single useful impact from a single pick.  They failed meaningfully to address o-line or WR or TE.

 

It was a garbage draft.

[harmonkillebrew]

bad pick.  My guess is BPA. They had a 2nd round grade on him.  I hate the hubris of BPA, as if drafting effective players is an exact science. You can't go pure BPA in the top 3 rounds in positions w/o need.

 

the only possible needs were: 3 LB looks (never saw that with Bernard all year), or backup to Milano.  He isn't close to replacing Edmunds

[Success]

1 minute ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Elam was a healthy scratch for much of the year and they didn't deploy him to his strengths.

 

Cook is a pass-catching back who caught 21 passes all season.

 

Bernard can't play football and doesn't play a premium position anyhow.  Healthy scratch.

 

Shakir was barely used.

 

Benford spent a lot of time out of the lineup.

 

Arazia and Tenuta are not on the team anymore.

 

Spector was inactive all year.

 

They did not get a single useful impact from a single pick.  They failed meaningfully to address o-line or WR or TE.

 

It was a garbage draft.

 

No offense - but this is sort of a classic "hot take" evaulation.

 

Elam is likely to be our #1 corner in the next few years.  Cook came on strong at the end of the season - someone said he could be our Kamara w/ a bit more work, and I'd agree w/ that. Shakir also came on strong at the end, and will be a starter for this team in pretty short order.  Benford was a late-round find and I'd bet he's starting at safety next year.  

[Estro]

It was a McDermott pick. Wasn't the story McDermott is best buds with the Baylor HC. One of the many issues with having a defensive minded HC. The conservative game plans is a huge problem, but the consistent high draft picks spent on defensive players over offensive players is a bigger problem. 

 

Since drafting Allen in '18 

 

We've gone:

 

'18

1st - Josh Allen

1st - Tremaine Edmunds 

3rd - Harrison Phillips

 

'19

1st - Ed Oliver

2nd - Cody Ford

3rd - Devin Singletary

3rd - Dawson Knox

 

'20

2nd - AJ Epenesa 

3rd - Zack Moss

 

'21

1st - Greg Rousseau

2nd - Boogie Basham

3rd - Spencer Brown

 

'22

1st - Kaiir Elam

2nd - James Cook

3rd - Terrel Bernard

 

That's 8 premium picks on defense & 7 on offense. The problem with the 7 on offense is 3 were spent on RBs, perhaps the least valuable offensive position.

 

This team needs an influx of young talent on yhe offensive side of the ball.

[Airseven]

It shouldn’t have taken that Bengals game for fans to admit Beane’s draft failures.

[John from Riverside]

11 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Elam was a healthy scratch for much of the year and they didn't deploy him to his strengths.

 

Cook is a pass-catching back who caught 21 passes all season.

 

Bernard can't play football and doesn't play a premium position anyhow.  Healthy scratch.

 

Shakir was barely used.

 

Benford spent a lot of time out of the lineup.

 

Arazia and Tenuta are not on the team anymore.

 

Spector was inactive all year.

 

They did not get a single useful impact from a single pick.  They failed meaningfully to address o-line or WR or TE.

 

It was a garbage draft.

Well, hell year one they should all be stars!

 

On a team with establish veterans

 

That went 13 and three

[Coach Tuesday]

15 minutes ago, Success said:

 

No offense - but this is sort of a classic "hot take" evaulation.

 

Elam is likely to be our #1 corner in the next few years.  Cook came on strong at the end of the season - someone said he could be our Kamara w/ a bit more work, and I'd agree w/ that. Shakir also came on strong at the end, and will be a starter for this team in pretty short order.  Benford was a late-round find and I'd bet he's starting at safety next year.  

No offense taken.  I wasn’t a fan of the draft at the time.  They needed help at premium positions and they got none.  

[KOKBILLS]

16 hours ago, Rigotz said:

Yes, I know he looked terrible this season in limited play.

3rd rounder in a potential Super Bowl year.

We needed OL and WR badly.

Why did we draft him?

 

The Bills play a base 4-2-5 defense… 4 down linemen, two linebackers, 5 DBs including a Nickel (Taron) who acts as a linebacker at times. Was Bernard intended as insurance against a Taron or Edmunds injury? Was he intended to be used as a core special teamer and traditional OLB in 4-3 looks?

 

I didn’t understand this pick at the time and still don’t … unless it was always the plan to groom him to replace Edmunds… which also seems odd in a SB year.

 

So… what do you think was the ideal outcome Beane had in mind?

 

Try to keep the snarky/defeatist answers to a minimum.

 

That pick is still a mystery. I remember the thoughts after the Draft to help explain it were centered around using 3 LB's more...That Bernard would provide match-up possibilities, and that he was a good blitzer...But that certainly never materialized. It's interesting that despite all those injuries in the secondary the Bills did not go 3 LB's at all. Just because Teron plays slot CB it does not mean he can't be on the field with 3 LB's. But even if they did, I get the feeling Bernard would not have been that 3rd LB anyway...

 

That does not mean the Bills can't do some of that next year, and that Bernard would be that LB...That's best case scenario I think...He's not a bad football player. Somewhere in the NFL there's probably a decent role for him...And the Bills could figure that out. But I don't see him filling either of the other two spots. Back up for Milano for sure. 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

All in all, the holes we have are due to the lack of effective drafting.  That's the main point that we seem to agree on.  You never know how players turn out over time.  

 

 

If you compare the Bills drafting to other teams in the past 5 seasons it is pretty solid.

 

What they are absolutely atrocious at is free agency.

 

In the last two years Doug Whaley was employed they signed an NFL DPOY candidate(Lorax) and NFL leading tackler(Zach Brown) for near league minimum and then Hyde and Poyer to exceptional value deals.

 

The only bargain they've gotten in UFA since Beane has been in charge is one year of Daryl Williams cheap.

 

They have literally overpaid, gotten virtually nothing or occasionally got what they paid for from every other UFA they've brought in.

 

It's very hard to be as inefficient with salary cap dollars as Beane has............and this is AFTER he set a then NFL record for dead money created in the 2018 offseason with the McBeane culture cleanse.

 

This team should easily be $50M under the salary cap entering this offseason...........in which case the drafts look a bit more palatable.

Edited January 29, 2023 by BADOLBILZ

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, whorlnut said:

Parham went one pick after bernard. He made the all rookie team.

 

Parham gave up 55 pressures this year, the 2nd most of any OL in the league. I have no idea why he made the all rookie team, maybe just because he started all year and other rookie guards didn't? Bernard looks like a bust of a pick after just one season if we're being honest but I don't know that Parham would have been any better.

[dgrochester55]

59 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Elam was a healthy scratch for much of the year and they didn't deploy him to his strengths.

 

Cook is a pass-catching back who caught 21 passes all season.

 

Bernard can't play football and doesn't play a premium position anyhow.  Healthy scratch.

 

Shakir was barely used.

 

Benford spent a lot of time out of the lineup.

 

Arazia and Tenuta are not on the team anymore.

 

Spector was inactive all year.

 

They did not get a single useful impact from a single pick.  They failed meaningfully to address o-line or WR or TE.

 

It was a garbage draft.

 

Benford was a steal and surpassed Elam, who was not a bust by any means.   It was more about what Benford did than what Elam didn't do.  The result, two corners who will be a big part of next year.  

 

Cook was not as productive as some of the other RB's drafted in this class but came on strong at the end of the year.   I blame the system more for the lack of receptions than the player. He showed flashes and I would like to see what he can do with more opportunities. 

 

Bernard, looks like a bad pick so far, no way around that .   Jury is out on Shakir, no one could have seen the allegations coming on Arazia, and 7th round picks don't always make the team let alone become major contributors on year one.  

 

It is true that the draft did not address some positions, we counted on veterans such as Crowder, OJ Howard and Saffold to do so,  and they did not come through.    If anything, the free agent signings in the offseason were the major misses.  

 

I am not trying to sugar coat the fact that there have been a lot of misses in the draft over the last 4 years, or say that this was great, but it is way too early to call the entire draft class a bust.  

 

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by dgrochester55

[PBF81]

20 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

If you compare the Bills drafting to other teams in the past 5 seasons it is pretty solid.

 

What they are absolutely atrocious at is free agency.

 

In the last two years Doug Whaley was employed they signed an NFL DPOY candidate(Lorax) and NFL leading tackler(Zach Brown) for near league minimum and then Hyde and Poyer to exceptional value deals.

 

The only bargain they've gotten in UFA since Beane has been in charge is one year of Daryl Williams cheap.

 

They have literally overpaid, gotten virtually nothing or occasionally got what they paid for from every other UFA they've brought in.

 

It's very hard to be as inefficient with salary cap dollars as Beane has............and this is AFTER he set a then NFL record for dead money created in the 2018 offseason with the McBeane culture cleanse.

 

This team should easily be $50M under the salary cap entering this offseason...........in which case the drafts look a bit more palatable.

 

We're not talking about other teams except for the best.  I'd be willing to wager that if we compare the Drafts for Philly, SF, Cinci, and KC that we'd be worse.  There's also a large degree of subjectivity in how someone views the draft.  For purposes of our brief discussion, I'll define mine as the necessity of having to get impact starters from your 1st and 2nd round picks, and at minimum solid depth or strong role-playing from your 3rd rounders and early day-3 picks.  

 

Here are our 1st and 2nd rounders on Beane's ticket:  

 

2018:  Allen (1st) & Edmunds (1st), the latter a trade up.  

2019:  Oliver (9th overall) and Ford (early 2nd) 

2020:  Epenesa (2nd) 

2021:  Rousseau (1st) & Basham (2nd)  

2022:  Elam (1st) & Cook (2nd)  

 

Granted, how they're used and how often are relevant, but now we're talking about McD/Coaching being an issue.  It's a pick your poison kinda thing.  

 

Either way, which of those players besides Allen do you consider to be impact players?  I don't consider any of them to be.  

 

The best are probably Oliver and Edmunds, neither of whose 5th years were picked up, which is telling there.  Ford's gone, Cook was a luxury pick and there's nothing in his collegiate dossier besides being related to Dalvin that suggests that he's an impact starter at his position.  He was drafted for his ability to catch out of the backfield, oddly the same reason we trade for Hines.  Cook has an unimpressive Catch%.  Rousseau, since Von Miller went down has been pedestrian.  Almost all of his releavant stats came against two teams with pedestrian offenses, the Jets and Pats, and struggling QBs.  He's not an impact player.  

 

I'm pretty certain that if we look at the 1st/2nd rounders of all the playoff teams this season, we'll find that they all drafted better than we did in that regard.  

 

Oh, and BTW, our 3rd rounders on Beane's watch ... 

 

Harrison Phillips

Singletary 

Knox 

Moss

Spencer Brown 

Bernard 

 

Phillips is gone and like so many of our other castoffs is playing better elsewhere.  

Singletary's gone now.  

Knox is good for a 3rd.  

Moss bust and gone. 

Brown, not good. 

Bernard, jury's out I suppose, at best.  

 

I'm open to discuss which parts of that render Beane good at drafting.  

Edited January 29, 2023 by PBF81

[TC in St. Louis]

I don't understand the pick.  I'm confident they had their reasons.  They tend to keep things confidential.  Wait and see.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Elam was a healthy scratch for much of the year and they didn't deploy him to his strengths.

 

Cook is a pass-catching back who caught 21 passes all season.

 

Bernard can't play football and doesn't play a premium position anyhow.  Healthy scratch.

 

Shakir was barely used.

 

Benford spent a lot of time out of the lineup.

 

Arazia and Tenuta are not on the team anymore.

 

Spector was inactive all year.

 

They did not get a single useful impact from a single pick.  They failed meaningfully to address o-line or WR or TE.

 

It was a garbage draft.

 

I will say though I think a lot of this is because of coaching, not talent. The handling of Elam all year has been baffling. When he was drafted a lot of Bills fans questioned the pick because we never play press man. My rationalization of the pick at that time was that it meant McDermott/Frazier planned to diversify their coverage packages which I took to be a good thing. But nope... They still constantly backed their corners 10 yards off the LOS and played a safe but below average starter in Dane Jackson instead of taking the high risk/high reward route, and predictably that defensive philosophy once again got taken to school in the playoffs. Every time I've watched Elam this year I've been impressed. Perfect, no, but he looks like he belongs. He just about shut down Tyreek Hill. How many other CBs can say that? He looks like a ball hawk too which is a skill set this defense has really missed since Tre went down last year. It's arguable we lose the Chiefs game and the wildcard Dolphins game if Elam isn't on the field. But for some reason McDermott/Frazier are terrified of mistakes to the point that they made him a healthy scratch behind washed up Xavier Rhodes at one point. So to me that is not an issue of talent evaluation, it's the coaches doing a horrible job developing their 1st round pick and using his skill set appropriately. And I think you can point to a similar issue for Cook and Shakir.

[Solomon Grundy]

17 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

I think the plan is to develop him. He is undersized but so is/was Milano.   No guarantees it works out.  I think his production would have made him a much higher pick if he had more prototype size.  

McDermott is still looking for his "big nickel" to activate his dominating, imposing defense 😎

[Johnnyp566]

The honeymoon period has officially ended. I’m now thinking we may have some Ryan Grigson-lite comparisons. 

[Yantha]

20 hours ago, Rigotz said:

Yes, I know he looked terrible this season in limited play.

3rd rounder in a potential Super Bowl year.

We needed OL and WR badly.

Why did we draft him?

 

The Bills play a base 4-2-5 defense… 4 down linemen, two linebackers, 5 DBs including a Nickel (Taron) who acts as a linebacker at times. Was Bernard intended as insurance against a Taron or Edmunds injury? Was he intended to be used as a core special teamer and traditional OLB in 4-3 looks?

 

I didn’t understand this pick at the time and still don’t … unless it was always the plan to groom him to replace Edmunds… which also seems odd in a SB year.

 

So… what do you think was the ideal outcome Beane had in mind?

 

Try to keep the snarky/defeatist answers to a minimum.

I'd say special teams and depth with upside.  It didn't work out so far.

[Dopey]

Beane is a wizard.