Bills Coaching Staff Changes Thread

[Victory Formation]

3 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

 

What is Frazier bribing McD with? Does he have nudes of him or something? Seriously. The guys terrible.

[blacklabel]

8 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

Every safety they put in this year didn't seem ready to go.  Whether it was Johnson, Hamlin, or Cam Lewis, none of them preformed even good enough.

 

His work with Siren Neal as a CB seems to be terrible too.

 

This is fair. It seemed like Jaquan Johnson actually regressed. He flashed some in the limited snaps he had and seemed like he had a knack for turnovers. He got a chance to replace Hyde and he lasted like two series before they sent in Hamlin. 

 

Safety is probably on Beane's shortlist. Seems unlikely Poyer will return, Hamlin is out indefinitely, Jaquan is a free agent... Yeah, gonna need reinforcements there. 

[Chaos]

I was mocked three months ago when I started a thread about how the teams problems were rooted in its safties coaching.  .......... I jest. 

[John from Riverside]

24 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

What is Frazier bribing McD with? Does he have nudes of him or something? Seriously. The guys terrible.

But see, that’s the problem he’s not terrible and the numbers reflect that
 

What’s not reflected in those numbers is how bad they’ve been once they got to the playoffs

 

Not looking at this from what we should do looking at this from what management is probably thinking

[HoofHearted]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Incredibly informative post…honestly. I’m guessing you’ve either played or coached?
 

So….with all of that said, why is Kelce always wide open? 😉

Because he's one of the best Tight Ends in football. Couple that with speed on the outside and a mobile quarterback it makes it tough. You have to pick your poison as a defense.

[DrPJax]

6 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

That's embarrassing if true. Teams change their signals and calls within games - why would they think it would remain the same from week to week?

It is true.  Broken down expertly by Eric on cover1’s YouTube video about “ you are what your last game says you are” , or close to that. It’s a fantastic breakdown of the literal defensive breakdown of the Cincy game.  It’s the strongest , most well documented expert analysis of how badly this team was out schemed in that game on both sides of the ball , but it really makes the best case for Frazier’s dismissal I have seen. And it’s fact based, not just vitriol seeking to lay blame.     Very worth your time to watch to fully understand how that debacle happened , yet the clues were already present in prior games.  Really shows how bad the defensive coaching failure was across the board.   
       I guess they let go of the safeties coach because they have no safeties left ti coach , and in mcds new vision they will just have epenesa lose weight again to be converted to strong saftey as mc Beane now realize with the cap they can’t keep rotating 10 dl’s as they attempt to get under the cap.

      Also as the corners are now playing at least 8 yards beyond the first down marker , they are really safeties in theory and Edmunds & Milano will now cover the boundaries as well in this latest version of cloud coverage which will give up any / all running plays to be sure they are never beaten with the deep ball.  Rbs fro opposing teams will eventually come in contact with the deeply dropped soft zone coverage , and it’s hoped by that time the Rb’s will be winded so that the tackling of those dbs now may actually improve.  This will help the stat about yards gained after contact ; since the rbs will already have gained all the yardage required for moving the chains , will be winded from sprinting untouched , our dbs should get them down immediately on contact so they will lead the league in least yards allowed after contact !
 

          It is just one sample of the forward thinking this staff is capable of given the reality we have zero cap space and an extreme excess of DL to draw from !   So , yes , firing the safeties coach makes so much sense! 😉👍

[HoofHearted]

2 hours ago, jkeerie said:

I can agree with this and that is what both McD and Beane said in their pressers.  Do you think coaching changes are warranted?

If you're asking if I think changes are needed based on one game the answer is unequivocally no. Wholistically, that really just depends on what the staff expects to get out of their players and whether or not they think those players met those expectations. I know that's kind of a non-answer but that's how these things kind of operate.

 

I do think you have a good example with Salgado though. Our Safeties have been a staple in our defense for so long it makes whoever is coaching them look really good. When those guys weren't there this year that's when you could really tell how well coached that unit was. Obviously there was going to be drop off from an athletic standpoint since the majority of those guys who were in to replace were late round guys, but what really showed was the lack of scheme knowledge in those players. There was a noticeable shift in what we were able to do and call when the back-ups had to come in the game. At that position specifically, with the way this defense is designed, that made us very vanilla.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

6 hours ago, TheWeatherMan said:

He can’t be fired, he’s not under contract.  

 

[SoCal Deek]

Am I the only one who sees the parallels between this past few years and the Super Bowl era? Back then the Bills were the class of the AFC and would consistently make it to the big game only to get their butt kicked by more physical NFC teams. Still, we kept going back and kept getting our butt kicked…changing virtually nothing year after year. Flash forward, and I’m incredibly fearful that the organization is about to do the exact same thing but in this era we can’t even get out of the AFC. 

[Mango]

Bruce Arians said he’d still be coaching if Brady didn’t come out of retirement.

 

If I’m Terry I call him with my checkbook open and ask what it would take to be OC. 

[Victory Formation]

18 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

But see, that’s the problem he’s not terrible and the numbers reflect that
 

What’s not reflected in those numbers is how bad they’ve been once they got to the playoffs

 

Not looking at this from what we should do looking at this from what management is probably thinking

Dude, when Bill Parcells and Rex Ryan tell you that your defense sucks, your defense sucks. 
 

Our defense is great against the bottom feeders of the NFL but not against good playoff teams like you mentioned.

 

Coach McD mentioned that he was embarrassed the other day in a press conference, yet just about no changes have been made. Zero accountability.

[jkeerie]

6 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

If you're asking if I think changes are needed based on one game the answer is unequivocally no. Wholistically, that really just depends on what the staff expects to get out of their players and whether or not they think those players met those expectations. I know that's kind of a non-answer but that's how these things kind of operate.

 

I do think you have a good example with Salgado though. Our Safeties have been a staple in our defense for so long it makes whoever is coaching them look really good. When those guys weren't there this year that's when you could really tell how well coached that unit was. Obviously there was going to be drop off from an athletic standpoint since the majority of those guys who were in to replace were late round guys, but what really showed was the lack of scheme knowledge in those players. There was a noticeable shift in what we were able to do and call when the back-ups had to come in the game. At that position specifically, with the way this defense is designed, that made us very vanilla.

Thank you so much for this!  I consider myself knowledgeable but not about X's and O's.  So I often don't know whether to attribute an issue to players or the scheme. There are so many opinions on this board...but those as knowledgeable as yours are rare.  I appreciate the instruction.

[Reed83HOF]

5 hours ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

Did this continue the rest of the game?

 

If so McDermott calling plays potentially yielded 13 pts vs Frazier 14 in two drives 

Intermittently, I actually for some reason wanted to watch the game lol. Shakir's, family Quentin Morse 's, Edmunds family and I want to say Oliver's fam was right to me left or in front of me. Had to be careful who I called schitty during the game. Lol

 

This is why I'm not as on edge about McD yet, he cared and was doing what I would expect a coach to do. The question to answer about him is to understand when he hits his ceiling and is he one of the guys who can get you there or never will. To me next season will be more telling. 

 

That second scoring drive as they approached the end zone, we could see him flipping through the play sheet, I'm assuming as Frazier was calling it in. He was frantically flipping and looking for something. After the score he got them all together on the end of the bench closest to us, got down on a knee an assistant brought the tablet over and he was coaching them up, Leslie was just standing there next to him. That following series, it sure looked very apparent he was calling the plays, as he was flipping through the sheet and talking into his mic, Leslie was just standing there next to him it didn't appear he was calling anything in and certainly was not looking at the play chart. Sean didn't call the rest of the game and, like a good fan in critical situations I was screaming my ass of trying to get the flame start lol.

 

I noticed that on that third series probably 2 or 3 plays and then only picked up 3  or 4 times the rest of the game. He didn't go back to coach them up again.

[HoofHearted]

2 hours ago, starrymessenger said:

Thanks for this. Yes I (thought I) summarized the Cover 1 position. Unlike me you obviously are schooled in the game (I played and was coached in other sports growing up) and so I wanted to challenge your comments more for the purpose of getting your reaction and learning something than for questioning your conclusions.

I may be wrong but I don't think I (completely) misunderstood the Cover 1 argument. 1) I believe they did say that the number of post snap keys to read increased in the playoffs and that this caused players to be confused as to their assignments on the given down resulting in blown coverages. 2) They said that this showed that Frazier did not trust his players to just play. They were critical of him.

You have also pointed out, no doubt correctly, that other teams run the same basic defence as McD and Frazier. I was inquiring of you whether this was or was not a meaningful comment. 3) In other words do differences in implementation, modification or execution account for differences in result. Or were we just down too many important players on D either absent or limited through injury to play as well as they had earlier albeit against less talented opposition.

The reason why these questions are important is because Frazier's contract is up and a decision on him has now got to be made. So where do you stand on our DC?
 

1) Number of reads won't change. Number of checks certainly could.

 

2) I'd say the opposite from what Cover 1 said about Frazier adding more checks in the playoffs - he's adding more checks because he does trust his players to be able to 1) make the checks and 2) execute them at a high level. If he came out and played vanilla then I'd be concerned he didn't trust his players to run the scheme.

 

3) All of those obviously affect results positively or negatively.

 

4) The scheme is not the issue if that's what you're asking. Adjustments are being made throughout games consistently, and we've been extremely innovative since this regime got here. Teams are going to score points in the playoffs - you're playing the best of the best. Frazier is never going to be the ra-ra guy who gets players fired up before games, but he shouldn't have to be. These are professional athletes. He's extremely methodical in his approach to games - shows a couple different looks early in games just to see how our opponents will try to attack them and then makes adjustments from there. It's why our defense seems to play better and better throughout games. Stay the course - we had one bad game.

1 hour ago, starrymessenger said:

Given especially that it has been something of a trend since the bye, it's really not enuf to say that we were out-physicalled or that we failed to execute. There are reasons for everything, and probably more than one reason why the Bills season progressed the way it did. Until you know what the reasons are it's hard to know what direction you should take. 

Then I don't know what to tell you. In that game, on that day, that was the issue. Nothing more - nothing less.

[HoofHearted]

33 minutes ago, DrPJax said:

It is true.  Broken down expertly by Eric on cover1’s YouTube video about “ you are what your last game says you are” , or close to that. It’s a fantastic breakdown of the literal defensive breakdown of the Cincy game.  It’s the strongest , most well documented expert analysis of how badly this team was out schemed in that game on both sides of the ball , but it really makes the best case for Frazier’s dismissal I have seen. And it’s fact based, not just vitriol seeking to lay blame.     Very worth your time to watch to fully understand how that debacle happened , yet the clues were already present in prior games.  Really shows how bad the defensive coaching failure was across the board.   
       I guess they let go of the safeties coach because they have no safeties left ti coach , and in mcds new vision they will just have epenesa lose weight again to be converted to strong saftey as mc Beane now realize with the cap they can’t keep rotating 10 dl’s as they attempt to get under the cap.

      Also as the corners are now playing at least 8 yards beyond the first down marker , they are really safeties in theory and Edmunds & Milano will now cover the boundaries as well in this latest version of cloud coverage which will give up any / all running plays to be sure they are never beaten with the deep ball.  Rbs fro opposing teams will eventually come in contact with the deeply dropped soft zone coverage , and it’s hoped by that time the Rb’s will be winded so that the tackling of those dbs now may actually improve.  This will help the stat about yards gained after contact ; since the rbs will already have gained all the yardage required for moving the chains , will be winded from sprinting untouched , our dbs should get them down immediately on contact so they will lead the league in least yards allowed after contact !
 

          It is just one sample of the forward thinking this staff is capable of given the reality we have zero cap space and an extreme excess of DL to draw from !   So , yes , firing the safeties coach makes so much sense! 😉👍

You need to take some of what they say with a grain of salt. For example Erik suggested playing more 2 Man in the game which would have gotten us gashed even more than we already did in the run game since you're taking guys out of the box.

 

His comments about Leslie sitting in the 4-2 Over is nonsensical since switching to an under front vs a Tight End would put our Nickel on the LoS playing essentially a 9 technique on the Inline-Tight End (I assume you can come to a logical conclusion about how that'd turn out).

 

That first touchdown they say we got out-schemed - we didn't get out-schemed... Poyer just busted the coverage and Edmunds didn't re-route the in-cut.

 

It's actually pretty amusing watching their film breakdown because schematically we are sound to everything they did. It was just failure to execute from a player standpoint, and this is where I think we are with Erik and Cover 1. He used to do a better job, but now that he's got some players ears it seems like he's so afraid to put blame on players and instead consistently puts everything on the staff and the scheme.

 

The third and 4 is the only thing that legitimately deserved any gripe out of the stuff they showed. I have to assume the Bills were playing some sort of Rat concept on that play - it's the only thing that makes sense based on the alignment of the defensive backs and coverage.

 

If you want I can breakdown every single one of those plays for you and show you how the scheme isn't what screwed us on those examples they showed.

[starrymessenger]

59 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

1) Number of reads won't change. Number of checks certainly could.

 

2) I'd say the opposite from what Cover 1 said about Frazier adding more checks in the playoffs - he's adding more checks because he does trust his players to be able to 1) make the checks and 2) execute them at a high level. If he came out and played vanilla then I'd be concerned he didn't trust his players to run the scheme.

 

3) All of those obviously affect results positively or negatively.

 

4) The scheme is not the issue if that's what you're asking. Adjustments are being made throughout games consistently, and we've been extremely innovative since this regime got here. Teams are going to score points in the playoffs - you're playing the best of the best. Frazier is never going to be the ra-ra guy who gets players fired up before games, but he shouldn't have to be. These are professional athletes. He's extremely methodical in his approach to games - shows a couple different looks early in games just to see how our opponents will try to attack them and then makes adjustments from there. It's why our defense seems to play better and better throughout games. Stay the course - we had one bad game.

Then I don't know what to tell you. In that game, on that day, that was the issue. Nothing more - nothing less.

Thanks for this. I think Cover 1 was saying they went from 5 to like maybe 15 checks. They seemed to think that a perfectionist and micromanaging DC was putting too much on their plates. I have, I think, a better idea of where you stand. With respect I’m not sure I would chalk up another late season debacle which appears to be part of a worrisome trend to the guys just having a bad day. I suppose much the same can be said regarding the O. I guess that in due course we will find out whether this is a “one of” or part of an ongoing saga requiring change.

[Behindenemylines]

11 hours ago, BigBadBills said:

Doubt it. His contract is up 

Dear God I hope they don’t renew!  He is 100% responsible for two SB run failures. 
 

if he was my employee he never would have made the plane after 13 seconds. 
 

 

[BobbyC81]

19 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Must be a function of Jaquan, Lewis, and to a lesser extent, Hamlin struggling when put into action such that they're scrambling to bring back guys like Marlowe.  As much as the fans have extremely strong opinions about position coaches, we have almost no visibility into what they do to inform an opinion on their performance.  But that is hardly an obstacle to some.

Then the WR coach should be fired.  Gabe Davis didn’t take that next step. McKenzie was inconsistent.  They then had to bring back Brown and Beasely.

[Amorgus]

Seriously, screw MSN for click baiting me this morning. The preview and article about a defensive coach firing shows a pic of Frazier but it's about Delgado. 

 

 

[The Red King]

7 minutes ago, Amorgus said:

Seriously, screw MSN for click baiting me this morning. The preview and article about a defensive coach firing shows a pic of Frazier but it's about Delgado. 

 

 

 

Same.  That was scummy.

 

If they think just firing the safties coach will fix things (or even pacify the fans) they are tone deaf and sorely mistaken.