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You're Beane. Give me your offseason moves as best you can at this point.


GreggTX
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- somehow steal the recently signed Schwartz from the Browns

- ordering Dorsey to have a playbook of 40% quick 2s passes (that work) and 30% runs (that work) because good OL won't fall from trees for next year, or cya bye bye

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14 minutes ago, YodaMan79 said:

I don't want to kick the can down the road with restructures.  This is where GMs earn their money, making the hard decisions. 

 

1. Do not resign/cut the feel good special team guys.  Nothing above vet minimum contracts for these type of players, they're a luxury they can't afford.  There are young and hungry guys that can cover punts and the rare kick return, that don't cost anywhere near what SN (1 million dead cap, how?!) and TM cost.  Coaches have to develop these type of contributors.  

 

2. You have to let Edmunds and Poyer walk.  A competent Dline makes everyone behind them look better.  This is the only option for true roster flexibility.  Letting them go would get you compensatory picks in 24, right?  The Raven's let CJ Mosley go, he wasn't difference maker for them.  Edmunds isn't for the Bills, either. 

 

3.  You have to get lucky and find the next FA like Poyer was.  They are out there.  A guy like KYZIR WHITE, the Eagles saw something in him and he's been very solid.  Howie Roseman leaves no stone unturned.  He wasn't a big name/money addition, but has played really well for them.  These former mid-round picks coming up on 4-5 years in the league that have shown promise deserve a shot.  A mix of these guys and a couple solid draft finds can turn a struggling unit around pretty quick.  

 

4.  RFA on teams that are up against it.  I hate to point out the Eagles again, but think Chauncey Gardner Johnson.  He was acquired for 5th and 6th round picks.  This is where flexibility with money is key.  Is this where we're at with EO?  We're likely too bias to have clear vision here.  We see his deficiencies, who's going to give anything of real value for him?   

 

5.  Who are skill position players available coming off an unlucky injury or scheme change,  that could have a bounce back year? Think of guys like McKinnon or a WR equivalent. 

 

A little luck and good scouting could keep us on the up and up.  

 

 

 

Awesome Post.

 

The way Beane talked about Edmunds makes me think they'll keep him, but I agree with you 100%.

 

The only caveat I'd give in regards to an Edmunds contract is that we can confidently backload that cap hit.  The running joke of his age does play a part here.  Very reasonable to believe that he, at least, plays to his current level throughout the entirety of his contract.. and then some. 

 

We have a Defensive HC.  Given the deficit Allen operates from year to year without having a consistent Offensive voice in the room like Mahomes, Burrow, Lawrence etc., that HAS TO be made up by McDermott being able to field an above average defense with average collective talent.. and especially one that steps up in the Playoffs.  To date... utter failure there.  If not, why on earth are we accepting the clear downside a Defensive HC presents to the Offense year to year?

 

Enough with the ST's.  It's absurd.  No more Taiwan Jones, Tyler Matakevich.  

 

Ed Oliver has to go.  That 11M needs to be used on a WR or top tier IOL. 

 

Edited by SCBills
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In the basic acquisitions part; at minimum two to three O-line men and a true #2 / 1b Wr, trade/ let Sweeney, McKenzie, go, trade /let go some of our D/line & A DB or two for picks, Keep John Brown at his low price, force Frazier out, wether Sean likes it or not, and figuratively kick Dorsey in the backside and force Josh to take more chain moving options when they are available instead of punting, (can’t score when you’re not on the field) Brady and Bellicheck killed it for decades taking those move the chain options. That’s it for now, 

 

GO BILLS!!!

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Dorsey would be required to bring me an offensive plan for the season that I could get on board with or he’d be replaced with one that could.
 

Teams need difference makers to win it all. In today’s NFL offense is king and the Bills have focused too much on getting defensive difference makers. Job 1 is getting one more to join Allen and Diggs on their side of the ball. Preferably that would be a speedy WR who could play inside or out. This would allow him to play inside on sets with 3 or more WRs and outside in 2 WR sets, taking Davis off the field.

 

If I could not get that quality of WR, I’d still seek an upgrade there and look to add difference making RB. Solidifying the OL is next. How to do so would depend on how the above shakes out (run vs pass blocking focus). Positions needing immediate improvement would be LG and RT. I’d also acquire a C of the future.

 

McD needs to determine how we can get quality production from the defense with less resources moving forward. He also need to tell me if Frazier stays or is replaced. The defense takes a back seat to offensive talent improvement. Improvements will have to come from getting White back to form and getting Von Miller back at some point. Edmunds walks in FA and is replaced by a much cheaper LB. A reasonably priced vet is added to stand in for Miller until he’s back. A part time DE who can get to the QB is what’s important. Oliver plays out his fifth year option. 
 

Specials gets a better punter. 

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12 minutes ago, Billzgobowlin said:

I don't see how we can resign Poyer and Edmunds and do anything else including signing rookies we draft.  I do think Morse is done because of cap situations and Bates moves to Center.  I don't see a reunion with Saffold unless he is taking a very low deal.  We will draft oline and RB to replace Singletary.  I don't see any WR coming that's new.  Cole will be resigned but I don't see Mckenzie staying, Hines will replace his snaps.  On defense I see them moving Benford over to safety and maybe drafting one and resigning Marlowe.  I think in all honesty they like the Dline but too many snaps lost to injury.  I see a moderately good to great Guard and draft a tackle mid round.  I also see a LB drafted and signed and Klein coming back.  Edmunds is better than Klein but Edmunds is going to get overpaid. 

This plan sounds about right. Moving on from Morse will save money. He may retire anyway with his history of concussions. If Bates moves to center (which he's always wanted), that leaves three holes to fill, unless Brown finally gets it in his third season. The Morse savings could pay for one guard, and a second-round draft pick can compete with Boettger for the other spot. First-round pick: a tackle to compete with Dawkins and Brown. The one big free agency pickup could be WR. So Diggs, FA, and Shakir at WR, two high draft picks on OL to compete with Brown and Boettger. Benford and Hyde at safety. Sign Edmunds, let Oliver show what he has in his last year. 

 

Could do worse. 

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8 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Dorsey would be required to bring me an offensive plan for the season that I could get on board with or he’d be replaced with one that could.
 

Teams need difference makers to win it all. In today’s NFL offense is king and the Bills have focused too much on getting defensive difference makers. Job 1 is getting one more to join Allen and Diggs on their side of the ball. Preferably that would be a speedy WR who could play inside or out. This would allow him to play inside on sets with 3 or more WRs and outside in 2 WR sets, taking Davis off the field.

 

If I could not get that quality of WR, I’d still seek an upgrade there and look to add difference making RB. Solidifying the OL is next. How to do so would depend on how the above shakes out (run vs pass blocking focus). Positions needing immediate improvement would be LG and RT. I’d also acquire a C of the future.

 

McD needs to determine how we can get quality production from the defense with less resources moving forward. He also need to tell me if Frazier stays or is replaced. The defense takes a back seat to offensive talent improvement. Improvements will have to come from getting White back to form and getting Von Miller back at some point. Edmunds walks in FA and is replaced by a much cheaper LB. A reasonably priced vet is added to stand in for Miller until he’s back. A part time DE who can get to the QB is what’s important. Oliver plays out his fifth year option. 
 

Specials gets a better punter. 

 

Difference Makers.  Great point. 

 

Rams Defense last year had Ramsey, Von, Donald, Floyd and meh.   They brought in a retired Safety to play for them in the Playoffs.   

 

Modern Defense is about making plays.  Sacks, pressures, turnovers, TFL's..  You can't bend/don't break elite Offenses. 

 

We have an Offense built on above average talent everywhere, but lacking game-changers.  Milano has become that, and guess what.. he's the only one that was noticeable in the Bengals game. 

 

This approach to roster construction, while not just being incredibly expensive, is also not conducive to the Playoffs.  We suffocate mid Offenses all year, but mid Offenses don't typically make it to the Divisional Round of the Playoffs. 

 

Furthermore, because of how expensive it is to have above average talent, high draft picks everywhere on one side of the ball... the other side of the ball suffers... and suffer they did.

 

Edited by SCBills
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8 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

Difference Makers.  Great point. 

 

Rams Defense last year had Ramsey, Von, Donald, Floyd and meh.   They brought in a retired Safety to play for them in the Playoffs.   

 

Modern Defense is about making plays.  Sacks, pressures, turnovers, TFL's..  You can't bend/don't break elite Offenses. 

 

We have an Offense built on above average talent everywhere, but lacking game-changers.  Milano has become that, and guess what.. he's the only one that was noticeable in the Bengals game. 

 

This approach to roster construction, while not just being incredibly expensive, is also not conducive to the Playoffs.  We suffocate mid Offenses all year, but mid Offenses don't typically make it to the Divisional Round of the Playoffs. 

 

Furthermore, because of how expensive it is to have above average talent, high draft picks everywhere on one side of the ball... the other side of the ball suffers... and suffer they did.

 

Arguably the Bills’ defense was stacked with difference makers - and had them at every level. Von Miller, Milano, White, Poyer and probably Hyde. Some would argue Edmunds too. Oliver never got there, but was certainly drafted to be. Add first round picks used on Rousseau and Elam and a second on Basham.

 

I have no argument for anyone on offense being a difference maker besides Allen and Diggs. No real effort has even been made to find another one. That’s so stupidly lopsided the wrong way for todays NFL. It certainly seems like McDermott is hell bent on making sure his defense has everything it could possibly need to be successful and that whatever resources are left over can go to the offense. Defensive gurus shouldn’t need that. 

Edited by BarleyNY
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1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

Things never should have gotten to this point with solid management.  The current situation is entirely a result of his failures as a GM.

 

Beane's gonna stew in his own juices.  

 

Tough situation, but no one but himself put him there.


This.

 

We have heavy cap restrictions and major needs at multiple position groups.

 

Good drafting was supposed to make losing players due to the cap more palatable. 

Beane has only re-signed Allen and Knox from our top 100 picks.  Philips walked. Likely Singletary walks. Ford is gone. Oliver likely walks.

 

I just don’t understand how we are so strapped. 

 

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2 hours ago, damj said:

Trade Oliver for cap space.

 

Cut Siran Neal to save 2.8 mil.

 

Top 2 picks at WR and OT. Another WR and 2 safeties later in the draft.

 

Resign Crowder or Beasley for 1 year vet minimum

 

Resign Phillips and Lawson. 

 

Try to resign Edmunds if the money is right. 

 

Replace Frasier.

 

Add Frank Reich as passing coordinator/ asst HC.

 

Add Greg Roman as run game coordinator 

 

So you don't think Oliver is worth $10mil??  If so why would some other team take on that contract?  Either the Bills or another team are on the hook for the $10 mil, unless he's given a long term deal that would have to make sense for him to agree to.  Else he'd decline play out his option and then team stuck with $10 mil salary.

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6 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Arguably the Bills’ defense was stacked with difference makers - and had them at every level. Von Miller, Milano, White, Poyer and probably Hyde. Some would argue Edmunds too. Oliver never got there, but was certainly drafted to be. I have no argument for anyone on offense besides Allen and Diggs. No real effort has even been made to find another one. That’s so stupidly lopsided the wrong way for todays NFL. It certainly seems like McDermott is hell bent on making sure his defense has everything it could possibly need to be successful and that whatever resources are left over can go to the offense. Defensive gurus shouldn’t need that. 

 

100%

 

7/8 Divisional Round teams have Offensive HC's.  Only 1 without, the Bills.  

 

Allen with forever operate at a distinct philosophical disadvantage when compared to his peer QB's as long as McDermott is here. 

 

Can that be overcome?  Sure.  Hit on the OC's every few years and - most importantly - be able to elevate the Defense without needing the investment the other Offensive HC's may need.  

 

To this day, Spags runs circles around McDermott when it matters.  He's constantly given a few playmakers and then scraps on that KC Defense, but they step up a lot when it matters, and when they don't, KC has a shot because Mahomes is given everything he could need in terms of coaching & investment. 

 

2 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

So you don't think Oliver is worth $10mil??  If so why would some other team take on that contract?  Either the Bills or another team are on the hook for the $10 mil, unless he's given a long term deal that would have to make sense for him to agree to.  Else he'd decline play out his option and then team stuck with $10 mil salary.

 

He's not worth that on this team.  

 

He's still a good player that provides pass rush from the interior.  Teams not paying a QB 40M+ can afford to have a guy like him on their DL.. and I'd imagine more than a few would be interested if we make him available.

 

I'd hope for a Day 2 pick in return, but would settle for a 4th or 5th to just get rid of that cap hit. 

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9 minutes ago, SCBills said:

He's not worth that on this team.  

 

He's still a good player that provides pass rush from the interior.  Teams not paying a QB 40M+ can afford to have a guy like him on their DL.. and I'd imagine more than a few would be interested if we make him available.

 

I'd hope for a Day 2 pick in return, but would settle for a 4th or 5th to just get rid of that cap hit. 

 

True, but still may be hard to get a team to take on $10 mil.  Teh question then is how to replace him and what are you doing with Edmunds?  If also don't sign Edmunds, and replace with rookies team is likely to take a significant step back short term like 2023 into 2024.  

 

Then start to ask is it better to blow things up bigger and reset things?

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48 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

We have a Defensive HC.  Given the deficit Allen operates from year to year without having a consistent Offensive voice in the room like Mahomes, Burrow, Lawrence etc., that HAS TO be made up by McDermott being able to field an above average defense with average collective talent.. and especially one that steps up in the Playoffs.  To date... utter failure there.  If not, why on earth are we accepting the clear downside a Defensive HC presents to the Offense year to year?

 

 

 

 

This.  Exactly this. 

 

I made this argument repeatedly going into the last offseason.  With the relative levels of experience they had in the defensive coaching staff vs that of the offense,  you'd think it would make more sense to rely on the defensive coaching staff's experience to be able to coach their way around a deficiency or two and give the rookie OC all the tools he needed to succeed.  The 2022 Bills largely did the opposite,  pouring resources into the D (again) and handing Dorsey a team with a makeshift OL, inconsistent running game and unproven players at WR2&3.  Honestly,  it was kind of predictable that it bit them in the ass. 

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3 hours ago, Shanahan's Horseshoe said:

Find someone else to evaluate Rb’s, DL and OL.

Another thing I would be in full alignment with the coaching staff on personnel. We brought in players to play the slot and did not use them. 

 

We invested heavily in pass catching RBs and didn't use them. 

 

After all the resources we've invested on D-line the continued failure of that position has to be considered a failure of coaching and/or playcalling

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29 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

True, but still may be hard to get a team to take on $10 mil.  Teh question then is how to replace him and what are you doing with Edmunds?  If also don't sign Edmunds, and replace with rookies team is likely to take a significant step back short term like 2023 into 2024.  

 

Then start to ask is it better to blow things up bigger and reset things?

 

I'm perfectly content rolling into next season with a DT room of Jones/Settle and then two JAG's/Rookies to rotate in.  We get Von back, and the DL potential is just going to have to be contingent upon Von coming back healthy and the same guy we saw before he got hurt.  

 

I'm also perfectly content letting Edmunds walk.  I don't hate the idea of re-signing him, but if he goes, our Defense simply starts to look like a lot of defenses... some talent/some deficiencies.   

 

McDermott, as a Defensive HC, should not need all this investment on Defense.  It's utterly ridiculous and the only way we load up Allen for next season is by accepting a few downgrades on Defense. 

 

He still gets a Defense with the following:

 

Von Miller

Greg Rousseau

Daquan Jones

Matt Milano

Tre White

Taron Johnson

Kaiir Elam

Micah Hyde

 

I mean, come on... figure it out. 

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WR 

Oline

WR

Safety 

RB

Oline 

 

Thats the draft. 
 

You can’t trade your 2024 First round pick in a package to move up anymore because you can’t assume you’ll make the playoffs.  
 

 

THAT MOVE HAD TO HAPPEN AT LAST YEARS DRAFT

 

Because it was a lock we were making the playoffs in 2022

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If I can get Hunter Renfrow from the Raiders I make the move. I’m not sure if you could fit him under the cap but that would be my choice at WR, and drafting one in the first 2 rounds. The WR FA class is kind of butt though I might try to bring someone in on a one year deal.

 

Everyone has already brought up the O-line issues and I agree with all of that.

 

Mid season I switched to re-signing Edmunds and letting Poyer walk and I am still there. I thought Hamlin was playing well enough before his scare but who knows what his future holds. Either way I’m moving on from Poyer even if I can’t re-sign Edmunds.


The RB FA class is deep. If you aren’t bringing back Singletary, I’d go after Alexander Mattison. I’d also look at Mostert to try and pry him from Miami.

 

Id look at depth for CB after White/Elam/Johnson, assuming they move Brentford to safety. Better depth at LB too but outside of re-signing Edmunds I wouldn’t make any major defensive moves via trade or free agency.

 

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